Now that we understand what the beast tribes and...someone... is summoning "spoilery"

Now we know that summons are nothing but shades of the real gods of lore...
So...in fact...people can summon whatever the hell they want as long as it has some belief in it...

So now tell me..whats stopping the scions or the 3 generals...from actually performing a summon to bring the warrior of light?

Think about it...just like iceheart summoned shiva into herself...what if they were to summon the warrior of light into ourselves?

Barring the negative side-effects it would have on the land of course.

Because primals are bad, mmmkay?

We actually knew that anything could be summoned if someone believed and wished hard enough when Gilgamesh accidentally summoned Enkidu in the Hildy storyline.

Also since the Warriors of Light were the 1.0 players, and they're running around with fancy tattoos, you'd pretty much just be summoning people from the Legacy servers.

I know they are bad! but picture this...empire completely overwhelming eorzea...WoL on its dying breath...bam! summon!
And as we have seen with lady iceheart...she is ok with summoning and didnt do anything bad to any place when she was summoned

I should go watch some cutscenes, but I'm pretty sure the only people who know the true nature of the Primals (and are on our side) are the people 200% opposed to them existing; people who, no matter how desperate, would never resort to summoning a Primal. Don't forget that just the belief/desire itself isn't enough, you have to have a TON of aether available to feed the Primal...usually in the form of corrupted crystals.

If anything on this topic, I'm worried that something like what Greg did may happen during the 3.x story, but involving the WoL and an accidentally-summoned Primal version of *spoiler*...

M Night shamalamadingdong plot twist: We're actually the bad guys and are/will be primals.

Well we see lady iceheart summon shiva into herself just by using a crystal of light. I think its very likely that something could trigger a WoL summoning considering the crystals that are already linked to us.

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Originally Posted by KoujiMoreno

M Night shamalamadingdong plot twist: We're actually the bad guys and are/will be primals.

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Is funny cause is true! That's the truth of the Echo. Dropped back in the Leviathan update, no less. The Echo's made us all Ascians (of Hydealyn). But, still stands that any summoning requires aether, much more than a person can muster on their own. And if you can't get aether from crystals, then you have to pull it from some other source. Alexander's quest reveals how bad that can be.

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Originally Posted by Catwho

Because primals are bad, mmmkay?

We actually knew that anything could be summoned if someone believed and wished hard enough when Gilgamesh accidentally summoned Enkidu in the Hildy storyline.

Also since the Warriors of Light were the 1.0 players, and they're running around with fancy tattoos, you'd pretty much just be summoning people from the Legacy servers.

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I guess someone on the Phoenix server summoned me then ;)

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Originally Posted by Irana

I know they are bad! but picture this...empire completely overwhelming eorzea...WoL on its dying breath...bam! summon!
And as we have seen with lady iceheart...she is ok with summoning and didnt do anything bad to any place when she was summoned

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doesn't matter it would still drain the athear besides Shiva couldn't do much against them just held them off for a bit.

And once she learned that it wasn't even Shiva she summand she was horrified because she didn't even know what she took into her self.


But now that that's outa the way............( prays before a giant crate of crystals for a giant grilled cheese sandwich)

there is sooo much we can speculate.

biggest question is why haven't the ascians summoned zodiark yet? my answer he is a planet like hydaelyn, and the way primals work? when primals are summoned on our planet it gives the other one power and vice versa. when the allagans found a way to harness the primals power it basically destroyed it, so they were *taken out* then the ascians had to get enough energy to fix their world, zodiark. (this is going off of FF3 warriors of darkness logic though were they aren't bad guys and are protectors of another world)

the other way i see it is. the ascians know a real way to bring primals/elder primals back and it is much much harder to do, and the warriors of darkness are just flat out evil nothing more.
the reason i have this theory is because even when they say the balance is off they proceed to say they *might* actually be able to stop our plans. (and they have been evil this whole time not sure why this plan would be any different)

also on the main topic it's because only hydaelyn can summon a WoL sorta like only zodiark could summon a WoD (assuming the WoD has been here the whole time just as a trump card when things get to where their plan can actually fail)

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Originally Posted by Irana

Now we know that summons are nothing but shades of the real gods of lore...
So...in fact...people can summon whatever the hell they want as long as it has some belief in it...

So now tell me..whats stopping the scions or the 3 generals...from actually performing a summon to bring the warrior of light?

Think about it...just like iceheart summoned shiva into herself...what if they were to summon the warrior of light into ourselves?

Barring the negative side-effects it would have on the land of course.

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I'd offer you people to join the lore section of the forum. Where it's filled with specific information. But to answer your question.

The scions and the 3 generals would be the last persons to perform something like summoning the WoL as it's in direct contrast of what they fight for. The knowledge that Primals drain the lifeforce out of the planet is very well known among them. It's why they're fighting to prevent primals.

It would be silly for them to go. "Let's create something that drains the aether of the planet dry to fight the other aether draining threats and garleans." That is the simple reason why none of them thought of it.

And obviously...story-writing /shrug

I agree with Y'shtola, in that man is just as bad as the beast men. Who are the Twelve but gods that man prays to? Gods that manifest to answer the prays of their subjects. They physically manifested to capture Bahamut, but that did jack squat until Louisoix added a boatload of pure Aether(from the staff). Doesn't that seem suspicious?

Are you talking about summoning a primal "main character"? Cause hopefully I'd be furious at that idea. Primal us...what would that even look like?

That's something to keep in mind, in terms of story, each primal is only summoned twice aside from Garuda/TItan/Ifrit which have been called upon I'd say 4 times total. 1st being their story fights, 2nd being when Garlean took them and then 3rd being hard mode with 4th being extreme.

With the other only twice for story/extreme mode but the point to take from that is that while yes we have the ability to fight them multiple times, if we fought them like that in the logic of XIV lore, the world would be devoid of any aether or crystals because of the amount it would take to summon x primal that many times.

That in a sense is what makes Odin an anomaly and I believe it's noted how he is draining the life from the Twelveswood however the question becomes, what keeps him around, who is summoning him and how can he just come back. I think the Odin DF fight left questions unanswered only revealing one potential truth however with that in mind Odin is the only Primal who's strength can increase with each defeat unlike others whom are destroyed and don't come back unless the beastmen can obtain the crystal reserves needed.

There are a theory that we are primals of the WoL from 1.0. We disappeared for long time and appeared when the people started to wish for a hero
There are a lot of plot holes in that theory, but it sounds kinda cool

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Originally Posted by Keylus

There are a theory that we are primals of the WoL from 1.0. We disappeared for long time and appeared when the people started to wish for a hero
There are a lot of plot holes in that theory, but it sounds kinda cool

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Thing is it flies in the face of players being saved from the calamity. Or the plot would have to change a bit for legacy players, seeing as they experienced the calamity.

Not against the idea, it's just, you're right, lots of plot holes.

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Originally Posted by Kallera

Thing is it flies in the face of players being saved from the calamity. Or the plot would have to change a bit for legacy players, seeing as they experienced the calamity.

Not against the idea, it's just, you're right, lots of plot holes.

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Primals are just copies, but they still have a short of memory, like Ramuh or Ekidu.
I am not in position to defend that theory. As I said it had a lot plot holes, like: Why do we not need crystals?
But since we are in a fantasy genre any plot hole can be filled with more fantasy. Like: We don't need crystal because we have a connection with Hydaelyn

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Originally Posted by Keylus

We don't need crystal because we have a connection with Hydaelyn

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We aren't really connected with Hydaelyn through the Echo, the Echo is a gift we 'own' granted by Hydaelyn. The only thing separating us from the Ascians is too many lifetimes of experience. We are connected, though, through the Blessing of Light, but... wait, we DO need crystals for that. Six, in fact, collected through our journey along 2.0, depleted in defending against Ultima Weapon, sealed after meeting Midgardsormr and then restored in 3.0 through an infusion from our own aetheric stores built up by the Echo (at least that's what it looked like to me). Those crystals, though, a tenuous at best and not very reliable if they can be drained by some silly spell of ultimate destruction.

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Originally Posted by Gilraen

We aren't really connected with Hydaelyn through the Echo, the Echo is a gift we 'own' granted by Hydaelyn. The only thing separating us from the Ascians is too many lifetimes of experience. We are connected, though, through the Blessing of Light, but... wait, we DO need crystals for that. Six, in fact, collected through our journey along 2.0, depleted in defending against Ultima Weapon, sealed after meeting Midgardsormr and then restored in 3.0 through an infusion from our own aetheric stores built up by the Echo (at least that's what it looked like to me). Those crystals, though, a tenuous at best and not very reliable if they can be drained by some silly spell of ultimate destruction.

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I am not a lore master, so I can't discuss with that; but thanks for that, I didn't understand well how worked our relation with Hydaelyn
I just wanted to say that nothing is "too absurd" in a fantasy game

I'm still waiting for SE to put in a primal called RNGesus - since everyone prays to them so much for drops. XD

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Originally Posted by Keylus

I am not a lore master, so I can't discuss with that; but thanks for that, I didn't understand well how worked our relation with Hydaelyn
I just wanted to say that nothing is "too absurd" in a fantasy game

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I'm no lore aficionado either, this is all just stuff I've picked up from playing the game. It's not really trying to hide anything, either. The Ascians teach the sahuagin how to invoke the Echo, and they're about as connected to Hydaelyn as the Ascians themselves. It's amazing what you learn when you don't skip all the cutscenes.

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Originally Posted by Gilraen

I'm no lore aficionado either, this is all just stuff I've picked up from playing the game. It's not really trying to hide anything, either. The Ascians teach the sahuagin how to invoke the Echo, and they're about as connected to Hydaelyn as the Ascians themselves. It's amazing what you learn when you don't skip all the cutscenes.

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I don't skip the cutscenes, that why I am not lvl 60 still. It's more that I am not that bright and I tend to lose/forget a lot of info

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Originally Posted by nssixn6

I agree with Y'shtola, in that man is just as bad as the beast men. Who are the Twelve but gods that man prays to? Gods that manifest to answer the prays of their subjects. They physically manifested to capture Bahamut, but that did jack squat until Louisoix added a boatload of pure Aether(from the staff). Doesn't that seem suspicious?

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No. Bahamut decimated the entire realm, killing innocent people. There is no denying that he needed to be stopped by any means necessary. And its not like people go around summoning the Twelve everytime they feel unsafe. The beastmen however, summon Primals who attacks caravans for crystals or squadrons of soldiers just for revenge.

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Originally Posted by Kallera

Primal us...what would that even look like?

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Trance.