Summing Method Confirmed, Man can Become gods. (Mild Post-HW Spoilers)

So, I've worked on my summoning theories for a while and since HW came out and dropped several lore bombs on Primals I can now form a true composite theory on summoning and summoning methods. Here goes nothing <Inhales>

Summoning Method One: The Ascian Method.

Through a mass group of followers using aether as a catalyst (Be it crystal or otherwise) a collective image of the summoned being can be called forth and maintained so long as aether supplies remain. How ever the summoned being, as with all methods, is merely a figment of the collective thoughts of the worshipers thus leading to an extremely unstable personality in some cases.

Summoning Method Two: The Allagan Method

A man made form of summoning conceived by the Allagan Empire to combat the Ascian Method. By using the lone Summoner's Aether, as well as a fragment of a defeated primal's elemental essence, then an Aetheric Construct known as an Egi can be summon bearing a resemblance in both appearance and abilities to the original primal. Also Due to it being a construct of Archanima, The Egi has a Programing based on the Archanimic symbols and formulas rather than any set personality. These formulas can also be altered by the Summoner in order to manipulate the Egi's Programing at will.

Summoning Method Three: The Incarnate Summon

The First Known User of this method being Louisoix Leveilleur, The Incarnate method is by far the most dangerous of the three currently discovered methods. Similar to the Ascian Method, through the use of aether one can change their own form into a idolized God like form, and effectively become a primal themselves.

Other Known Practitioners have Been Lady Ysayle Iceheart, and Thorden VII with the accompaniment of The Heaven's Ward. All of Which have made on danger blatantly clear, Just as primals and egis disappear into the aetheric stream, If one using the Incarnate Summoning Method is killed while in primal form their mortal body will disappear into the Aetheric Lifestream along with their primal form. This side effect has proven to be 100% constant as Louisoix, Ysayle, Thorden VII, and the 12 Heaven's Ward all disappeared into aether like the primals they became upon their deaths.

Opening the floor to Thought, Comments, and Questions. Per usual feel free to poke and prod as needed.

Not Asayle. The echo protects her.

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Originally Posted by Frederick22

Not Asayle. The echo protects her.

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From what? The Incanate Method dosnt temper the user it makes them the prim. And Lady Iceheart became the primal Shiva, echo or no echo.

Echo just makes you immune to tempering, it doesnt make you incapable of using any of the summoning methods.

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Originally Posted by Kaiser-Ace

From what? The Incanate Method dosnt temper the user it makes them the prim. And Lady Iceheart became the primal Shiva, echo or no echo.

Echo just makes you immune to tempering, it doesnt make you incapable of using any of the summoning methods.

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You said that you can summon a primal and become its vessle, and by that way you will gain the primals's power and control. But you also said that will required a sacrifice, if the primal was destroy, its vessel will be destroy too. Well that didmt happen to Ysayle. She was beat couple times and she still survive, the echo protects her someway.
The archobishop istead, after we deafeated him, he dissaped into aether.

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Originally Posted by Frederick22

You said that you can summon a primal and become its vessle, and by that way you will gain the primals's power and control. But you also said that will required a sacrifice, if the primal was destroy, its vessel will be destroy too. Well that didmt happen to Ysayle. She was beat couple times and she still survive, the echo protects her someway.
The archobishop istead, after we deafeated him, he dissaped into aether.

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I said Killed, we defeated her twice and she was defeated by Ravana in the MSQ, but The Garlen Warship killed her. And when it did the same thing happened to her as Louisoix, she turned into Aether and Disappeared.

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Originally Posted by Kaiser-Ace

Summoning Method Two: The Allagan Method

A man made form of summoning conceived by the Allagan Empire to combat the Ascian Method. By using the lone Summoner's Aether, as well as a fragment of a defeated primal's elemental essence, then an Aetheric Construct known as an Egi can be summon bearing a resemblance in both appearance and abilities to the original primal. Also Due to it being a construct of Archanima, The Egi has a Programing based on the Archanimic symbols and formulas rather than any set personality. These formulas can also be altered by the Summoner in order to manipulate the Egi's Programing at will.

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That's not how Summoners work, according to Koji. Summoners summon a fraction of their own soul in the image of the primal, and killing a primal gives them the knowledge of the aether and shape they would need to give to their soul in order to make the Egi. It's not a true method of summoning, as it doesn't make a Primal, and therefore does not drain the world of its aether, nor does it require worship.

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Originally Posted by WyrahFhurrst

That's not how Summoners work, according to Koji. Summoners summon a fraction of their own soul in the image of the primal, and killing a primal gives them the knowledge of the aether and shape they would need to give to their soul in order to make the Egi. It's not a true method of summoning, as it doesn't make a Primal, and therefore does not drain the world of its aether, nor does it require worship.

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That's where the Archanima comes in. The Archanima is what shapes that Soul Fragment via Aether into an Egi.

The whole point of the Allagan method to to summon WITH OUT using a primal. You cant very well fight a primal with a primal. That'd drain the land faster. The Allagan Method was the counter to the Ascian Method. No worship, out side aether source, or land draining required.

Also, at this point we know good and well that Primals are in fact extremely powerful Aetheric constructs not much different than Carbuncles and Egis in concept.

So some of the established head cannon about them being Non-Corporeal Gods given form needs to be let go.

Primals, Carbuncles, and Egis are are made via Aether using the Summoner(s) thoughts as the proverbial chisel to shape the Aether being manipulated.

Prayer=Thought

So weather it be faith like The Beast Tribes and Iceheart or intentional choosing Like Louisoix and Thorden all Primals are made in the form of a Mental Image. Same as Carbuncles and Egis. If thought wasn't part of the Egi process how would you control which egi you summoned? You do so by taking that fragment and shaping it with the image of the Egi you want at that moment. After all it'd suck to need the Titan-Egi asap and Ifrit-Egi show up instead.

So if one was to say... Want to become the Primal of Pumpkins they would just need enough aether and use on them self to become the Incarnation of Pumpkins basically.

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Originally Posted by Somewarlock84

So if one was to say... Want to become the Primal of Pumpkins they would just need enough aether and use on them self to become the Incarnation of Pumpkins basically.

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Exactly. That's really all it'd take. Using Method 3, You'd take the appearance of what ever you imagined the "King of Pumpkins" would look like.

Louisoix, Ysayle and Thorden VII all reverted to their regular physical bodies before disappearing into the aether. The members of the Heaven's Ward immediately disappeared into the aether, directly from their Primal forms. What makes them different from the other three characters? Simple strength of will?

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Originally Posted by Beckett

Louisoix, Ysayle and Thorden VII all reverted to their regular physical bodies before disappearing into the aether. The members of the Heaven's Ward immediately disappeared into the aether, directly from their Primal forms. What makes them different from the other three characters? Simple strength of will?

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Perhaps the presence of another Primal, that absorbed their aether (Thordan)? It could also be that they didn't feel the need to show their bodies during the length of the fight and just left them gone at the end.

Also I think Gilgamesh summoned Enkidu using the faith method on his own, but his brain is well.. probably out of this world so to speak..

Likly force of will alone. its also possible that the heaven's ward were actually part of Thordin's Primal form and dissapeared due to the transformation being broken. (It's also likly that that the heaven's ward turned back and died off screen due to their relative unimportance compaired to Thordin) Anouther possibility is that the were not given anough Aether to exist independently. (Simmiler to Garuda's clones, they disapear when she does)

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Originally Posted by Kotori_Southburd

Also I think Gilgamesh summoned Enkidu using the faith method on his own, but his brain is well.. probably out of this world so to speak..

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Even though it's only semi-cannon at most, Enkidu is still a refrence to the Ascian Method. Wish/Prayer + Aether/Crystal=Primal Like Construct.

Enkidu also was far weaker and infinitly less dangerous than any true primals. Enkido would be what I call a psudo-primal, Being an Aetheric construct summoned via the Ascian Method that was not summoned with the intent of summoning a savior which seems to be the catalyst for corruption. (Also it was stated officially that normals ruels dont always apply due to that questline being in an alternate and independent cannon)

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Originally Posted by Kaiser-Ace

Summoning Method Three: The Incarnate Summon

The First Known User of this method being Louisoix Leveilleur, The Incarnate method is by far the most dangerous of the three currently discovered methods. Similar to the Ascian Method, through the use of aether one can change their own form into a idolized God like form, and effectively become a primal themselves.

Other Known Practitioners have Been Lady Ysayle Iceheart, and Thorden VII with the accompaniment of The Heaven's Ward. All of Which have made on danger blatantly clear, Just as primals and egis disappear into the aetheric stream, If one using the Incarnate Summoning Method is killed while in primal form their mortal body will disappear into the Aetheric Lifestream along with their primal form. This side effect has proven to be 100% constant as Louisoix, Ysayle, Thorden VII, and the 12 Heaven's Ward all disappeared into aether like the primals they became upon their deaths.

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This is largely incorrect I'm afraid.

It was made abundantly clear in 2.4 that Ysayle did not become Shiva but merely summoned the primal into her body. Urianger explicitly states that she must have the Echo in order to do such a thing without being tempered, and thus remaining in control of the primal's power. Thordan and the Heavens Ward are presumably the same and were likely granted the Echo by the ascians in order to facilitate it (the gifting of the Echo to the sahagin priest in 2.2 was foreshadowing for this event).

Louisoix is actually entirely different to these cases as beyond his initial attempt at calling on the Twelve he did not summon at all. He quite literally became a brand new primal. There was simply so much free aether floating in the air at Cartenau and the entire population of Eorzea was desperately calling out for anything at all to save them that the aether Louisoix was tapped into transformed him into Phoenix: his image of a primal of rebirth to save the land. In a sense Louisoix's transformation was not a deliberate choice, the aether merely responded to the collective will of thousands (if not millions) of people.

It's also wroth noting that Louisoix remained fully in control despite his transformation and deliberately released the aether he'd absorbed after felling Bahamut (which would have returned him to the lifestream if Bahamut hadn't tempered him first). If he were to be summoned now he would be like any other primal and instinctively drain the land of aether to sustain himself; he would not be Louisoix at all. With that in mind I'm actually reluctant to consider the first incarnation of Phoenix a primal since it was not a shade or hollow copy as Hraesvelgr described primals, but rather it was still the real mortal Louisoix, just supercharged on aether.

Enkidu was a primal created from just a few boxes of fire crystals, i'm sure the real primals are constructed with way more and with more fervant prayers. The fact that Gilgamesh was able to summon Enkidu by himself adds comedy to the situation because summoning takes a lottttttttt of prayer.


One interesting thing is that for EX primals to he summoned, the beasttribes used catalysts that were figurines or voodoo dolls made of bones/flesh of their own? Looking back at the EX quests, you collected these disgusting talismans that were never explained fully. I guess by sacrificing one of their own in an extremely painful way and turning that sacrificed person's remains into a talisman amplifies the Primal's power indirectly by giving the beastmen a symbol of faith. I think this may be a nod to how real world religions pray to remains of their saints. I know catholicism has a number of "relics" such as fingers of saints or other pieces/remnants of clothing, etc.

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Originally Posted by Alberel

This is largely incorrect I'm afraid.

It was made abundantly clear in 2.4 that Ysayle did not become Shiva but merely summoned the primal into her body. Urianger explicitly states that she must have the Echo in order to do such a thing without being tempered, and thus remaining in control of the primal's power. Thordan and the Heavens Ward are presumably the same and were likely granted the Echo by the ascians in order to facilitate it (the gifting of the Echo to the sahagin priest in 2.2 was foreshadowing for this event).

Louisoix is actually entirely different to these cases as beyond his initial attempt at calling on the Twelve he did not summon at all. He quite literally became a brand new primal. There was simply so much free aether floating in the air at Cartenau and the entire population of Eorzea was desperately calling out for anything at all to save them that the aether Louisoix was tapped into transformed him into Phoenix: his image of a primal of rebirth to save the land. In a sense Louisoix's transformation was not a deliberate choice, the aether merely responded to the collective will of thousands (if not millions) of people.

It's also wroth noting that Louisoix remained fully in control despite his transformation and deliberately released the aether he'd absorbed after felling Bahamut (which would have returned him to the lifestream if Bahamut hadn't tempered him first). If he were to be summoned now he would be like any other primal and instinctively drain the land of aether to sustain himself; he would not be Louisoix at all. With that in mind I'm actually reluctant to consider the first incarnation of Phoenix a primal since it was not a shade or hollow copy as Hraesvelgr described primals, but rather it was still the real mortal Louisoix, just supercharged on aether.

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I consider Louisoix's transformation to be the "Origenal" Incarnation summon. The name it's self comes from Final Fantasy 13-2 where Caius Ballad gave his life to become Chaos Bahamut and WOULD have die if not for Etro ex Machina. So, considering no one had even considered it till then, I believe the Ascians copied the idea based off of Louisoix becoming phoenix. Because if we don't count Louisoix then the method has only been used twice and both in very different methods. The Ascians taught the normal summoning method to the Meracidians AND taught the Allagan how to bind, imprison, AND control primals at the same time which is also likly what lead to the Allagan methods formation. so Per usual all things come back to these guys.

http://memegenerator.net/instance/63058202