Learning to tank FF style(or learning how to be a proper flasher)

I come from a tanking background of WoW Wrath of the lich king PuG instance tanking and City of Heroes school of anything goes tanking and am trying to learn the ropes here. I've tanked each instance through Haruuke and heading towards Titan as a Paly at this point in time.

So far during the dungeon runs during the trash mobs my set up seems to be Flash>Flash>Emnity combo^once on each target>Flash>MP Gain^once on each target>enmity combo on the mob with the most HP till death. If I need to pull its a shield lob and move to where I want them, then the abilities as I've listed.

On mini-bosses and bosses I seem to; Shield Lob as moving to position^multiple while in motion>Flash>Emnity combo^2>Flash>MP Gain>Flash>Emnity ad nausem.

During the bigger fights I have a hard time figuring out which defensive cooldowns to pop and when especially since as a Gladiator I had a lot more to choose from and it was more forgiving as I had more CD's to work with.

Am I on the right track?

You should never *need* to use Flash on single targets. Just emnity combos are fine. Groups (trash mobs and adds), yes, you'll use Flash a lot. Once you have an aggro lead use your combo, but rotate it around the mobs based on who your DPS are targeting.

As for your CDs, it depends on the fight. For dungeon bosses, there really aren't many tank-killers, so just rotating CDs when you start getting low or when adds spawn is fine. Later, when you start seeing tank-killers, you'll need to plan on what CD you'll use and when. For groups, its always a good idea to use a CD after pulling a group to help out your healer.

And Shield Lob is always a good opener, groups or bosses.

Yes, you're on the right track. Once you get to Brayflox, then things start to toughen up a bit and you start seeing your HP plummet down more. Focus your Rage of Halone combo on the target of your strongest DPS.

Shield lob is always a good opener. DPS will also automatically locked into that lobbed target and can start their DPS as soon as possible.

Flight or Fight whenever it's up, and Rampart when you're taking on a lot of mobs. Sentinel when a big hit is coming. Bulwark and Awareness in big pulls. Convalesence when you expect things to go down.

Also, for your information, Rampart and Sentinel stacks up multiplicatively. Means if you use Rampart + Sentinel, the damage will first go through Rampart, the resulting damage will go through Sentinel, resulting in around 52% damage reduction instead of the additively stack, 60% reduction. So, it's better to use your buffs back to back, instead of stacking them all up at the same time.

The only time you should ever flash on a single target like a Boss is if you're trying to apply Blind. Otherwise Flash is useless for single target tanking. Enmity combo is much better.

For the Mini-Bosses/Bosses: ALWAYS pop Fight or Flight before attacking, the extra damage helps with your enemity. Flash against single targets is a no go beyond blind, 2-3 maybe 1-2 before jusy cycling through with your Halone combo, anything more Flash will be used more often. For your definsive CDs use this time to learn how each work with you and all that. Its mostly end game fights where it really matters and by then you should either have enough of a feel for them to know what to use once you know the fight a bit, or can ask a buddy who also tanks.

Also CoH ftw.

Another thing that makes your life as a tank easier is marking, although it seems hardly anyone is doing it anymore and then they can't hold aggro.

Personally i just mark the next target with a 1, you can put the marking on your hotbar for ease of use. When the current target is at about 10% health, i mark the next target with a 1 so the DPS can prepare and know where to go next. If the DPS don't listen and attack the wrong target with non-dot single target attacks, ask them to follow the marks. If they still don't listen and pull aggro, it's their fault.

Marking makes my life easier since i know where to put most of my aggro and it makes the healers life easier since the DPS focus on a single target and monsters die faster and you get less damage. This makes it easier for the healer to got into cleric stance and deal damage too, and the whole fight is over faster. It really is a win - win situation that is hardly used nowadays because many tanks are too lazy.

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Originally Posted by Naryoril

Another thing that makes your life as a tank easier is marking, although it seems hardly anyone is doing it anymore and then they can't hold aggro.

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1. Trash doesn't live long enough to be worth marking, most of the time.
2. DPS NEVER follow marks. Yeah, if they pull aggro, it's their fault, but the healer still blames me for letting the DPS get the hate. DPS gets a little thrill of pride, "Oooh I can tank!" and "Oooh I managed to out-DPS our tank's aggro generation! Hahahaha! I'm sooo awesome!"
I shouldn't say never. It's always a case of one of the DPS follows the marks, and the other one doesn't. The number of times that this is not the case is a single digit percentage.

It's so much easier to let the DPS attack what they want to and hold the hate off of them, because they're gonna do what they want anyway.

Its not just at least one DPS doesn't follow marks but SMN and BLM both AoE a lot because its just what they do. SMNs are going to use Bane and BLMs are going to cast Fire2. The best general strat for any tank on holding hate on multiple mobs is use your job's AoE ability a few times(2-3 is normally fine) then do your 1-2-3 hate combo in the following fashion: 1-2 change target 3 change target repeat. If your DPS are being nice and primarily focusing the same target, you can focus mostly on that target with less frequent poking of the other mobs to keep them off the healers. Eventually, you'll get comfortable enough to weave in your non-hate combo to keep up maim/get some MP back. On bosses, pop whatever damage boosts you have and use your hate combo, maybe twice, then just alternate your 1-2-3 and your DPS combo, although PLD doesn't get theirs till post 50 because SE.


As for defensive CDs, just use them sorta whenever, its infinitely better than not using them at all and your healers will notice even if they don't say anything. After doing dungeons a few times, you'll begin to learn when you want that extra bit of tankiness, usually to protect yourself from subpar healers or to enable crazier pulls. When you start doing serious trials and raids, you'll simply have to learn when you need to pop CDs and that's just a matter of learning the fights and practice.

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Originally Posted by Dualblade

For the Mini-Bosses/Bosses: ALWAYS pop Fight or Flight before attacking, the extra damage helps with your enemity.

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Personally I never liked this tactic. I like to wait to use FoF until after my first fast blade, where I can get maximum uptime with it. Unless the DPS open with flare or dive in/start dpsing before I can even get shield lob off (if they do they should be kicked), I don't have threat issues at the start and I find that I get a bigger threat lead over time.

That's just what works for me though. As long as you have threat and the dps/healers don't, then you can do whatever works for you. Just throwing out different options.

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Originally Posted by Kaedan

The only time you should ever flash on a single target like a Boss is if you're trying to apply Blind. Otherwise Flash is useless for single target tanking. Enmity combo is much better.

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In some fights, this is useful. You can actually "dodge" Titan's Mountain Busters by blinding him with Flash. But most of them are invulnerable to these status, which saddens me. :(

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Originally Posted by Cyrus-Wallace

In some fights, this is useful. You can actually "dodge" Titan's Mountain Busters by blinding him with Flash. But most of them are invulnerable to these status, which saddens me. :(

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it seems we are slowly getting hit harder and harder in the debuff/CC dept...

Cool downs are situational, that comes with experience in tanking and knowing the mechanics of the encounter be it trash or boss. Your opener should be (blood for blood if you really want to but its extra damage on you too) Flight or Fight, Shield Lob, Circle of Scorn, Flash (depending on how confident you are you can flash twice) and then go into your rotations, remember to put in a shield swipe when it procs.

Enemies become immune after your 3rd flash or shield bash if the blind effect or stun actually works on them.

Thanks for the info, and on a quasi-related note player note: what's considered the appropriate wait time before kicking someone who dc'd? had it happen twice where I would dc and by the time I get back(2-3 minutes) I've already been kicked.