Musings of a Bard

First off, let me start with asking you NOT to bog down this thread with "Bard sucks right now" or "Bards need a buff." The purpose of this thread is to point out a few things about how bard changes with WM on and off.

Non-WM 3.0 explanation

So to start off, it's pretty easy to talk about 2.X Bard since almost everything that was added in 3.0 requires WM. Because Sidewinder is so potent as an instant ability, and 2.X bards can weave 2 of these types of abilities inbetween global cooldowns, it gives them a notable advantage in flexibility over WM. It's because of the ever-changing nature of the current expansion that I believe having WM off is a very viable option in certain scenarios, but it will not prepare you for the day when SE makes the other 4/5 of the new abilities necessary for competent contribution.

What changed in our old abilities?

• Barrage no longer affects auto-attacks and instead affects certain weaponskills by multiplying their attacks by 3.
  
• The two extra strikes by Barrage cannot be critical hits
  
• Bloodletter shares a cooldown timer with Rain of Death
  
• Rain of Death is now off the global cooldown as an instant and can be refreshed like Bloodletter
  
• Wide Volley no longer procs a free Rain of Death cast and RoD doesn't proc a free cast of Quick Nock
  
• Quick Nock requires positioning to use correctly and has the same potency as Wide Volley which doesn't (albeit at a lower TP cost)
  
• Foe's Requiem now accurately displays that it reduces magic resistance on it's tooltip

What is Sidewinder?

• Instant cast even in WM
• can currently be used outside of WM
• A potency of 250 when used properly
• It is off the global cooldown
• Good synergy with Iron Jaws
  
• 60 second cooldown (unaffected by skill speed)
• Is not affected by Barrage

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AskaRay

They fixed the tooltip on Sidewinder, it no longer says you need WM to use it.

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What does WM add?

• 0 second casting time
• 15 second cooldown
• 30% damage buff (stacks with other buffs)
• Access to Empyreal Arrow, The Warden's Paean and Iron Jaws
• Loss of auto attack
• 1.5 second casting time to certain abilities (Affected by skill speed)

What is Empyreal Arrow?

• 220 potency (70 more potency than Heavy Shot)
• Combos with Barrage to hit 3 times
• Off the Global Cooldown
• Short 15 second cooldown (Unlike Bloodletter, it is affected by skill speed)
• 1.5 second casting time

What is the Warden's Paean?

• Prevents the next detrimental effect on target party member for 30 seconds
  
• Doesn't stop anything that isn't removable by a healer
• 3 second cast
• detrimental effects are hard to predict who they're going to
• only affects one person
• only stops a single detrimental effect

What is Ironjaw?

• 100 Potency (Same potency as Venomous Bite & 40 more potency than Windbite).
• Refreshes both Venomous Bite and Windbite DoTs to 18 seconds
• Costs only 60 TP vs. 160 TP to recast Venomous Bite and Windbite
• 1 Global Cooldown use vs. 2 from VB & WB
• 1.5 second cast time

How is my rotation affected?

• Shift from a reliance on Heavy Shot procs to using Empyreal Arrow on every recast.
• When Heavy Shot does proc, Straight Shot regains it's instant cast status, allowing the Bard free movement during it's use and that gcd as well as 2 ogcd uses (It's possible to weave Empyreal Arrow and Bloodletter into a procced Straight Shot cooldown).
• Importance of using Iron Jaws to maintain DoTs (dots are still refreshable if Iron Jaws is completed within a second of it expiring).
• Importance of using Hawk's Eye and Barrage together and using Raging Strikes with them when it is available(RS has a cd of 120 seconds, so it may be favorable to use it every 180 seconds so it aligns with the other buffs and abilities more often).
• Only use Barrage with Empyreal Arrow it is worth it to let EA wait a little on it's cd since there is a massive difference in damage output between it and Heavy Shot.
• Use Sidewinder on every 60 second cooldown (it is worth it to let it wait a little bit for the 180 second buff cycle if you're using that method).
• Emphasis on minimal movement, knowing the fights and using the second inbetween casting times and global cooldowns to make just enough movement to escape predicted aoe will maximize your effectiveness.
• High movement fights such as Waukkeon from Neverreap are not friendly to the Wanderer's Minuet strategy, it is more advantageous to instead utilize the "Burst Damage WM" strategy.
• When turning on Mage's Ballad + Battle Voice in a group, it may be more advantageous to turn off WM so that you may position yourself where you may benefit the most people in a fight. Since this require extraneous movement, it will be easier to do on the 2.X Bard.

Burst Damage WM

• Best of both worlds, allowing for the brief shock of damage from the Bard while still retaining mobility and familiarity.
  
• WM is on at the beginning of the fight. and only requires the Bard to remain in the stance long enough to get off a buffed Empyreal Arrow & Sidewinder or until they need to move.
  
• Doesn't recast WM during the fight

3.01 Toggle Strategy (WIP)

With the introduction of the changes to Bard in 3.01 it is now feasible to reactivate Wanderer's Minuet mid-battle.

1. Use Hawkeye, Blood 4 Blood, and Raging Strikes if available
2. Refresh Straight Shot
3. Barrage Buff and toggle Wanderer's Minuet
4. Empyreal Arrow
5. Iron Jaw + Sidewinder
6. Heavy Shot spam and Straight Shot procs until buffs end
7. Cast Iron Jaw one last time (if needed) then toggle off Wanderer's Minuet
8. Rinse and repeat as buffs refresh.

Did I forget something? let me know and I'll add it in with a quote giving you credit.

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Originally Posted by Special Thanks to Arkenne

Huh? If I recall, they always did... unless they changed something and now they can refresh Bloodletter even if they don't crit?

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Also, due to the fact that I play the game on the PS4 I currently lack the ability to parse by myself. If someone could possibly record a good video of their damage onto a target dummy in both WM and out of WM using their respective best rotations at the moment for a total of 5 minutes. Additionally, I would like a comparison between a Bard in item level of 145 (HQ non-melded) in all slots and a Bard with item level 180 in all slots to see how having WM on and off scales with gear. Post it here and I'll put all entries under a spoiler tag so that it doesn't stretch out the page too much.

Thank you, finally a resource thread.

They fixed the tooltip on Sidewinder, it no longer says you need WM to use it.

I'm not sure if a recording from me would be very beneficial (not just because I don't have all max gear yet..), mostly because my framerate is atrocious.
Essentially everything you've covered is what I've been doing with WM. (Except the change to RoD, I always used Quick Nock before because it never, ever proc'd for me using Wide Volley...sigh, RNG...so now I use RoD).

So, following this, it seems you suggest staying in WM mode for the entire fight and not swapping out?

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Originally Posted by mb52139

So, following this, it seems you suggest staying in WM mode for the entire fight and not swapping out?

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I suggest that players practice in WM mode, especially if evidence reveals that there's a massive difference in terms of their scaling with gear. Right now, Burst Damage WM seems to be the most valid and "best" option for dps, but that could be for a number of reasons, especially when you consider that there's pretty much no difference to how a non-WM Bard plays. I would also expect that when 3.1 or the new Alexander raid comes out to see some changes to all of the classes, which could very well tip the scales in either method's favor. The difference is though that most Bards know exactly how to play without Wanderer's Minuet.

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Originally Posted by The_Last_Dragoon

Snip.

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The entire point to WM is to gain a DPS boost but as a sacrifice to mobility. The problem is mainly in how to use it. A 3 second cast for a DPS toggle is simply too much. The other problem with the song is the lack of auto attacks which I still can't understand why they did that. Also one of the least complained about changes is what they did to Barrage. Even outside of WM now that barrage is no longer the awesome AA DPS buff it used to be; our DPS gets a direct hit there. That to me is an issue. The hopeful part of me wishes SE just reverse some of the changes, allow Iron Jaws outside of WM as well but keep EA in there. Make WM an instant cast and put auto attacks back in. That way WM still offers an advantage but not at such a huge detriment.

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Originally Posted by LLamaPie

snip

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I can legitimately see them increasing the bonus damage of Wanderer's Minuet to 30% or allowing for auto-attacks while it's active in order to make the song more appealing to players. Even if they allow for auto-attacks to be used while the song is active, they still wouldn't happen while you are casting, but they would occur in between casts and would do good work towards normalizing Bard dps. I don't see them ever making the song an instant cast or taking the requirement off of Iron Jaws though.

Regardless, all of that is speculation and doesn't pertain to the focused lens I'm trying to put on the current state of Bards.

Someone can make this more detailed if they want, and my comment is that if you don't use EA fairly quickly after its cooled then you are killing your own DPS at that point. If you have AP Song or MB Song active then you should "try" to be in WM to negate some of the damage debuffs that occur. Here are some of my thoughts:

WM Opener: Apply Buffs > Apply DoTs > Straight Shot > Barrage > Emp. Arrow > Sidewinder > Iron Jaw
-------If WM Cont'd: Evaluate Song Usage, Buff as needed, IJ as needed, Always combine Barrage+EA, Sidewinder, Heavy Shot
---------------If you can anticipate debuffs being used, I would recommend using WP Song on Tanks/Healers

If WM Off: Normal 2.0 Bard Rotation + Sidewinder

Other thoughts would be that while WM is engaged I think that not only damage % should be upped, but that it adds a second minor crit% up. Small rant: Shouldn't ranged DPS be CRIT masters? C'mon [].
The problem is that EA doesn't cover enough space even when under crit to cover for the loss of auto-attack. I feel that WM should also decrease damage debuff to 5% when using AP or MB songs.

I do not feel that WM itself is the issue -- something that would be cool would be to add a proc that if you WM that it procs WP song to instant+partywide.

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Originally Posted by AskaRay

Thank you, finally a resource thread.

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Amen to that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by The_Last_Dragoon

I suggest that players practice in WM mode, especially if evidence reveals that there's a massive difference in terms of their scaling with gear. Right now, Burst Damage WM seems to be the most valid and "best" option for dps, but that could be for a number of reasons, especially when you consider that there's pretty much no difference to how a non-WM Bard plays. I would also expect that when 3.1 or the new Alexander raid comes out to see some changes to all of the classes, which could very well tip the scales in either method's favor. The difference is though that most Bards know exactly how to play without Wanderer's Minuet.

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Understandable, tho I try hard to weave it into my normal rotation. (opener... then recasting it if the boss disapears long enough.. etc)

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Originally Posted by The_Last_Dragoon

Both Venomous Bite and Windbite now have a chance to refresh Bloodletter cooldown

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Huh? If I recall, they always did... unless they changed something and now they can refresh Bloodletter even if they don't crit?

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Originally Posted by Arkenne

Huh? If I recall, they always did... unless they changed something and now they can refresh Bloodletter even if they don't crit?

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ye rivers of blood trait always did that on dot crits.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Arkenne

Huh? If I recall, they always did... unless they changed something and now they can refresh Bloodletter even if they don't crit?

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I could have sworn it just used to be Venomous Bite which refreshed the cooldown. It could have been changed before Heavensward, lol. I wasn't paying that much attention to the changes to Bard on the other patces.

I recall it was only Venomous bite also that caused bloodlettre to proc.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mb52139

I recall it was only Venomous bite also that caused bloodlettre to proc.

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Was always windbite and venomous bite.

River of Blood works the same as it always did nothing changed for the past 2 years.
Both dots work with it.

As for mentioning the extra info about Quick Nock, it was always the to go aoe unless targets were out of range and impossible to properly position, which was pretty much never.
So bards only got buffs in the aoe department although this did make Wide Volley an even less useful option than it already was, but you shouldn't have been using that skill in the first place.

Well the OP been trying to defend these changes ever since EA. I'm still trying to figure out why? WM IS CLEARLY NOT SOMETHING WE BENEFIT FROM OUTSIDE OF OPENERS. It has already been addressed it doesnt work as intended. Whenever I see The_Last_Dragoon post something I cry a little inside. Not because he himself got the right to play as he likes to, but because others might get caught in his agenda and ignore all the faults BRD has right now.

WE ARE NOT BOW WIZARDS.

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Originally Posted by The_Last_Dragoon

I could have sworn it just used to be Venomous Bite which refreshed the cooldown. It could have been changed before Heavensward, lol. I wasn't paying that much attention to the changes to Bard on the other patces.

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and this pretty much sums it all up...

EDIT: just to clarify I have nothing personal against you OP. And we are gonna see some changes to BRD before Alex Savage comes out anyway so im gonna wait and see what happens. Until then.. Stay strong fellow Bards.

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Originally Posted by Boss_Koivula

Well the OP been trying to defend these changes ever since EA. I'm still trying to figure out why? WM IS CLEARLY NOT SOMETHING WE BENEFIT FROM OUTSIDE OF OPENERS. It has already been addressed it doesnt work as intended. Whenever I see The_Last_Dragoon post something I cry a little inside. Not because he himself got the right to play as he likes to, but because others might get caught in his agenda and ignore all the faults BRD has right now.

WE ARE NOT BOW WIZARDS.

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There are literally fifty thousand other threads if you want to go complain... please use those instead.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Boss_Koivula

Whenever I see The_Last_Dragoon post something I cry a little inside. Not because he himself got the right to play as he likes to, but because others might get caught in his agenda and ignore all the faults BRD has right now.

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http://img.pandawhale.com/85036-MRW-...t-I-a-5ZAn.gif

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Originally Posted by Boss_Koivula

WE ARE NOT BOW WIZARDS.

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Very true, and I could have sworn I was one of the first ones who looked at the skills video and lamented what was lost because of it. On that side note I also posted this:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by The_Last_Dragoon

First off, let me start with asking you NOT to bog down this thread with "Bard sucks right now" or "Bards need a buff." The purpose of this thread is to point out a few things about how bard changes with WM on and off.

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For a very good reason mind you. I'd rather this be a thread where people exchange what they've discovered rather than harp on what they already know.

I honestly am enjoying WM, BRD never really had a rotation and the priority system was quite simple but when you chuck in a caster stance with less opportunity for oGCD and add fights with movement, you get something that deepens the priority system quite a bit and gives the job a bit more finesse to separate who's good and who's not.
Clipping dots early if you think they'll drop because you won't be able to recast IJ, prioritizing specific oGCDs depending on what's happening and what'll be next, (maybe) holding SS procs for a GCD to set up empy+barrage with less clipping or planning around movement that's coming very soon, etc, all this type of stuff adds a much more clear gap than what we had before, which was more or less "if you're decent at bard, you're almost at the skill cap, if you're good at bard, you do a million different minmaxy things for an underwhelming gain that nobody will really notice or care for"

If they allow you to dance in and out of it easier some of that will be taken away, but if they make WM more desirable to "everybody" I'll be happy to see how much BRD dps fluctuates based on skill level.

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Originally Posted by aabe

snip

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It's an atrocity since it doesn't increase dps significantly, imo =/ Not sure what u mean about rotation and priority though. Empyreal arrow replaces the next heavy shot on cd unless barrage is a few sec from coming off cd. Frankly I find it skews our priority since there will be instances where bloodletter will be off cd ( and we cant cast it coz dumb cast times... ) and resets from rivers of blood. A missed bloodletter should break the heart of every brd. Imo for WM to be viable they need to factor this bloodletter loss also. But how? Even more proof they took gauss barrel from mcn and just slapped it onto brd.

I get it that bard was op pre 3.0 but it's really starting to grate when I see my pld friend hitting 1,2,3 in sword oath and parsing near my dps on a dummy. Granted, he's raped of tp before he even hits 3 minutes and that's where the bard comes in to play but still xc It's probably the saving grace for brd that plds WILL drain themselves quite fast, and almost every static has one. I was worried when I saw my our mnk demonstrate for me that he can last over 5 mins now w/o needing paeon, but hey, cant forget the OT is really worth supporting too. Even in a brdless raid with a nin to rotate goad, nobody needs paeon like a nin does.

I'm just having a soliloquy here for myself trying to convince myself brds are still vital for raids. Coz it is sad to see us on equal footing with OTs...

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Originally Posted by Sessurea

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to be fair tank DPS fluctuates extremely highly depending on the encounter, compared to a training dummy
besides that, there's warriors on ravana EX, but ravana ex is a really bad fight for parsing and it pads OT wars quite nicely, plus ravana ex dps fluctuates extremely highly based on your encounter time due to the amount of downtime after fuller. You can basically chop it up into bits, box dives-double prey-etc-etc-etc and each bit that your raid "ignores" by killing him before he gets to that point is basically shaving off 10-15+ seconds of downtime.

I don't really think there's a single good endgame fight right now for parsing and comparing numbers, but I do know WM is at least going to get buffed to a point where it should be "desirable" to most people to use (coming from somebody who already uses it at all times on everything) at which point all of the stuff I described will start coming more into play.

The changes to our priority system I described don't entirely rely on empy arrow, a good example I can think of is something comparable to mana tick timings on BLM where you can choose to push your GCD back in favor of a BL proc, depending on your proc timing, so that you don't miss a proc and have to cry seeing the BL recast reset during your next cast. The fact we only get 1 oGCD before clipping is extremely big, because it shaves down everything into having a specific priority over another, rather than the pre-3.0 double weaving BRD where it barely matters if you pop BFB or IR first in your opener, so long as you pop them both during the same GCD timer.

-oh, also, tank DPS will be much lower when raids become a thing. progression raiding is a whole different monster than ravana EX where your job is to walk in for a cleave every so often, which you don't even need your tank stance for. having to commit to tank stance, soak damage or pick up adds as an OT drops you TONS of damage until your healers are comfortable enough with you just powerhousing cooldowns while in DPS stance.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by The_Last_Dragoon

I can legitimately see them increasing the bonus damage of Wanderer's Minuet to 30%...

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Called it.

CHANGELOG:

Wanderer's Minuet

• Buff increased from 20% to 30%
• Casting time reduced from 3 seconds to 0 seconds
• cooldown increased from 2.5 seconds to 15 seconds

Empyreal Arrow

• Potency reduced from 240 to 220

Sidewinder

• Potency reduced from 150 to 100
• Potency reduced while under either VB or WB from 250 to 175
• Potency reduced while under both VB and WB from 350 to 250

EDIT:
Just found this in the fixes:

An issue wherein the effect of the bard action “The Warden's Paean” would not activate under certain conditions.

I wonder if this means that WP actually stops non-esunable debuffs now?