Spellspeed Sucks for HoT

Let's start with the patch notes:

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[2.0] Player attributes have been adjusted as follows:
Skilspeed and spellspeed now affect damage over time and healing over time effects.

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Cool, so these stats are supposed to buff over-time effects, so their potency since this was supposed to be their solution to make spellspeed not garbage for SMN (read: They do not increase ticking speed, that still occurs at the server's internal 3-second clock, and at no other time or frequency ever).

I decided to do some Regen testing with my 60 WHM, and I had enough gear around to make a couple sets to test with. Pretty much my findings can be seen here:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...wBc/edit#gid=0

tl;dr:

A difference of 200 spellspeed equated to a 2-3% change in regen tick potency, a difference of 20-30 hp per tick, on average.

A difference of 200 mind equated to a 25% change in regen tick potency, a difference of 200 hp per tick, on average.

These are abysmally low numbers when everybody has 10k+ hp at 60, and your tanks (who are your target for regen 90% of the time) are sitting at 16-22k hp. An extra 20-30 hp per tick of regen (that's going to be an extra 140-210 hp total for the entire duration of regen) means absolutely nothing in terms of healing anyone at 60. That's not going to save your tank from that cleave that just hit them for 10k, or the AOE that just hit everyone for 7k.

This feels like some cruel joke from SE with how little they made secondary stats matter, or a bug, because we know how bug-ridden things have been of late (go fix DRK already).

Edit: To add, DET is also a joke now: http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/commen...condary_stats/

Huh? You expect SS to be worth 1.0 eMND? That's... that's not how it works. Secondaries are generally somewhere in the 0.10 to 0.35 range depending on the class. Look up "FFXIV stat weights" to see how it works for other classes. According to your data, each point of SS is worth 0.134 eMND. That's on the very low end of the scale (down there with SS on DRG in ARR)... if that were the only thing SS did. Because SS also increases cast times and lowers recast times, you would have to factor that in as well when comparing it to crit or det to get the full picture. But usually you don't chain-heal as WHM, so it's hard to value the speed increase of SS. And, SS only increases HoTs, not other heals, making it even harder to compare.

But, have you compared SS vs DET and CRIT for how they affect HoTs? That's the valid comparison. Not MND. Of course MND is better - it's a Primary stat. Those are always better.

It's like saying that 200 Weapon Damage matters more than 200 MND... Of course it does. That's just how things work.

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Originally Posted by Nyalia

Huh? You expect SS to be worth 1.0 eMND? That's... that's not how it works. Secondaries are generally somewhere in the 0.10 to 0.35 range depending on the class. Look up "FFXIV stat weights" to see how it works for other classes. According to your data, each point of SS is worth 0.134 eMND. That's on the very low end of the scale (down there with SS on DRG in ARR)... if that were the only thing SS did. Because SS also increases cast times and lowers recast times, you would have to factor that in as well when comparing it to crit or det to get the full picture. But usually you don't chain-heal as WHM, so it's hard to value the speed increase of SS. And, SS only increases HoTs, not other heals, making it even harder to compare.

But, have you compared SS vs DET and CRIT for how they affect HoTs? That's the valid comparison. Not MND. Of course MND is better - it's a Primary stat. Those are always better.

It's like saying that 200 Weapon Damage matters more than 200 MND... Of course it does. That's just how things work.

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*facepalm*

I'd ELI5 but that's moot, especially the part where you seem to try and claim that I'm comparing MND to SS, when I clearly titled this topic about SS, and compared 2 sets of 0 and 200 SS. Secondary stats are complete garbage now. Don't bother comparing it to 2.X weights, they're completely wrong and out the window now. Even still, the most basic of expectations, that spellspeed would have at least a noticeable impact on HoT as promised, is also out the window. Itemization is likewise gone. DET's ratio is closer to 0.09. It's 26/27 SS to reduce GCD by 0.01, up from 10 in 2.X era. These are pathetically bad numbers.

The entire point was that no matter what stat it is, SS, DET, MND, the difference it makes to HoT is completely insignificant for it to matter at all in the 60 world. Every class's HP base has about doubled. Damage taken is significantly higher than before. Healers are not healing sufficiently more than they used to to keep up. Abilities got seriously nerfed now that they are no longer affected by any effects, such as convalescence/defiance/mantra/divine seal/etc., the irony being that every healer got more abilities and not spells.

Everything they did with stats for healers has been just awful.

Don't worry, those stats scale with other stats, so spellspeed will be worth more as you get more mind, weapon damage, determination and crit.

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Originally Posted by dark494

Abilities got seriously nerfed now that they are no longer affected by any effects, such as convalescence/defiance/mantra/divine seal/etc.

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is this true?

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Originally Posted by Chokee

is this true?

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It would appear to be the case. As an example, Tetragrammation (our new instant heal) gains no bonus from Divine Seal.

"Spell" bonuses don't affect healing "Abilities," which is just really terribly in my opinion. Why would they opt for less synergy?

Also, secondary numbers are low across the board now. They are about 1/3rd what they were at 50. The thread's title is misleading - everything is low. Spell Speed for HoTs is average in effect compared to other secondaries.

2.0 2ndary stat weights were rougly .33 . They are now roughly worth .09. In addition to that Spell Speed does not reduce your GCD nearly as much as it used to.
In full i180 our gear = DarkLight from 2.0
Supposedly the stat jumps going into i190 and higher, will be significant. It all remains to be seen.

I believe they are trying to prevent power creep, and essentially have reset us to baseline with i180 gear.

But as things stand now, secondaries are pretty much worthless. You could be 200+ over the acc cap, and only be doing 1-2% less damage than someone who has those secondaries in crit or det.

Pretty silly eh?

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Originally Posted by Chokee

is this true?

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From the most recent hotfix:

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An issue wherein the white mage action "Divine Seal", which only affects spells, would also affect "Assize", which is an ability [has been resolved].

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They're trying to make the distinction between spells and abilities. Spells are things like Cure 1/2, Physick, Adloquiem, Benefic, Regen, Medica 1/2, Succor, Helios, etc. Abilities are things like Tetragrammaton, Asylum, Assize, Lustrate, Essential Dignity. Spells are on the GCD, abilities are not. Only spells are affected by healing buffs, abilities are not. You can see how bad this can get.

Still waiting for an answer from the devs if Presence of Mind is bugged or not. http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ffecting-Regen

One thing to take into consideration is we are at the "darklight" level of stats on gear, they are high in comparison to level 50 gear. But come Alex normal then Alex savage ioncreasing the ilvl higher, and thus the numerical value of Stats on the gear, our stats are going to massively increase.

The higher the stat, secondary or primary, the greater the impact it will make. Just like darklight gear was low and made a small difference with secondaries with our characters, and Dreadwyrm made a significant difference. The same applies to Law gear, and whatever comes in the future.

we will be getting triple figure stats on gear. 100 SPS on 5-6 pieces will, more than likely be a lot more noticeable.

So no reason to panic with starter gear. Wait till we really start to push those ilvls and see what difference is made.

As an addition.

If stat scaling had stayed the same as 2.X we would be at something silly like 70-80% crit rate come 3.5.

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Originally Posted by Sapphic

we will be getting triple figure stats on gear. 100 SPS on 5-6 pieces will, more than likely be a lot more noticeable.

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the thing with those numbers is, doesn't that make materia completely useless?

it's almost the same with the level up bonus. SCH/SMN has to split INT/MND bonuses. in the past going one way or the other is like missing 3 darklight accessories in the main stat, now you're not missing just one. personally, this is good, i don't have to bother switching now.

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Originally Posted by Sapphic

snip.

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Pretty much this, we still don't know how much the actual raiding gear will scale with numbers, how much of a jump will be over Law gear. Many are used to Ironworks/Dreadwyrm stats during 2.X, which was the high end of numbers at that point, granting you the power of a thousand suns if you geared appropiately.

V materia on crafted hq will make stats viable.

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Originally Posted by Nyalia

"Spell" bonuses don't affect healing "Abilities," which is just really terribly in my opinion. Why would they opt for less synergy?

Also, secondary numbers are low across the board now. They are about 1/3rd what they were at 50. The thread's title is misleading - everything is low. Spell Speed for HoTs is average in effect compared to other secondaries.

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because those are off global cooldown mostly and itt would be a nightmare to design new encounters where everyone can throw out instand 10k+ heals off the global cooldown at will.
So the new cool abilities were excempt from abilities that buff them even further, giving encounter design a better frame to work with.