Training Dummy vs. Actual fights

One thing that irk's me is the training dummy vs. actual fight dps.

The dummy you can use to gauge the maximum potential of a job, but in most cases (aside from monks who never do mechanics) the actual in fight damage is never going to match.

guess what im trying to say is you can be good at spamming your buttons to get high numbers at the house, but that doesn't always translate to the battlefield.

But it's the training dummy where you learn the patterns of your rotations and the timings of your button presses/abilities. You then apply that knowledge into Raids.

Well, Training Dummies are there to get to know your rotation...
The parse is just an extra, really :/

The battlefield might differ a lot from poking at the dummy, but by poking the dummy you can make sure you are poking the boss correctly and confortably instead of blindly pushing buttons.

Training dummies overexaggerate how "high" Bard/MCH DPS is when they are in gauss/WM because in a real fight gauss/WM highly impacts how much DPS they deal because of casting times being interrupted.

IE: Compare a BLM to a ... well.. pre-2.0 Bard. The BLM has a ridiculous amount of difficulty DPSing because of cast times in dungeons like neverreap with like 3 tornadoes and everything flying.

Any fight is going to be lower dps than a striking dummy. The striking dummy is used to establish rotation and shows your ability to achieve the output. You then take this into the raid and apply it to the situation with mechanics involved.

I don't think anyone expects striking dummy numbers in a fight and parsing high on a striking dummy doesn't in itself make you a good player. It's just fun to compare and contrast dps between gears and classes.

Although I will say that the dps who practice their rotation on the dummy are typically better when it comes to doing dps in raids. Practice is everything in this game.

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Originally Posted by SovereignAegis

Training dummies overexaggerate how "high" Bard/MCH DPS is when they are in gauss/WM because in a real fight gauss/WM highly impacts how much DPS they deal because of casting times being interrupted.

IE: Compare a BLM to a ... well.. pre-2.0 Bard. The BLM has a ridiculous amount of difficulty DPSing because of cast times in dungeons like neverreap with like 3 tornadoes and everything flying.

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Why would movement impact bard more than BLM?

Are you saying they will be impacted the same? If so, then what's the problem?

smh at bards suddenly realizing what casters have to deal with since the dawn of time. Serves you right, you know.

You could use the dummy to see how high your dps can go. You than can use that number as a "I should or could". Course raid dps will be lower cause mechanics but its like, if your raid dps is like 150 off what your dammy parse is than , you could say its either 1. Your messing up somewhere or 2. To many downtime

for practice i think dummy is fine.. but like others agreed in raid its different... so what a WAR or DRK can do same DPS as BRD on a DUMMY they wont do that in a raid. why? because they need to TANK!

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Originally Posted by pandabearcat

Are you saying they will be impacted the same? If so, then what's the problem?

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well right now, out of all the classes, blm is the one being the most affected by movement by far.
even 3.0 bard isnt even close to 3.0 blm in term of punishment.
A blm lose/risk losing
A 3 second cast
Enochian
Astral fire
Leyline
while bard lose...... a cast

DRG's ability to use Geirskogul is greatly effected by "real" fight mechanics as well. With a 1-2s error window for 3 Geirskogul's per minute (from what I've read), in reality you are probably only going to comfortably be pushing 2. I'm guessing you'll be able to push 3 the higher your comfort level with the fights become and know when to expect downtime. This is mostly speculation on my part (haven't quite gotten to the EX fights yet personally) but it's an educated guess based on how mechanics go even with just dungeon bosses.

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Originally Posted by hallena

well right now, out of all the classes, blm is the one being the most affected by movement by far.
even 3.0 bard isnt even close to 3.0 blm in term of punishment.
A blm lose/risk losing
A 3 second cast
Enochian
Astral fire
Leyline
while bard lose...... a cast

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by pandabearcat

Why would movement impact bard more than BLM?

Are you saying they will be impacted the same? If so, then what's the problem?

smh at bards suddenly realizing what casters have to deal with since the dawn of time. Serves you right, you know.

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Except for one fact: First of all, WM is useless in an actual fight anyway and if it comes to pure numbers, yes, we lose a cast, but if we lose that one, it lowers the overall low amount of damage we are doing anyway, while casters can make up with formidable dots or high potency numbers.

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Originally Posted by YGSLlew

Except for one fact: First of all, WM is useless in an actual fight anyway and if it comes to pure numbers, yes, we lose a cast, but if we lose that one, it lowers the overall low amount of damage we are doing anyway, while casters can make up with formidable dots or high potency numbers.

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That is not how any of that works.

1. Last I checked bard had dots too. Also, dots are not a majority of any caster's main source of damage. Yes, even SMN has a lot of their damage from other sources.
2. What do you think happens when a caster loses a cast? They magically get damage back?
3. 1.5 second cast times are a joke.
4. "WM is a minor upgrade for high risk". Well casting is "the same dps you always dealt, with double the cast times, yay". Casters don't even have a fallback like bards do.

well, to give some nice numbers:



BLM managed to crit with about 4k pre 3.0 using Fire III while the highest numbers for bard were around 1.4k Misery's End crits. That my friend makes a huge difference, even taking the cast times into account, which of course are very high with mages. As for the DoT-thing, yes, bards use a whole 2 of them which are mainly a proc-source instead of huge damage. Yeah, it adds to the overal dps but it's minor compared to Bio, Bio 2, Miasma, and Miasra only to tell a few. Don't get me wrong, I can understand your point here, just giving you my opinion on those:

1. Last I checked bard had dots too.
As I said, yes, but they are barely counting as full fledged DPS tools, considering what the SMN dots do.
2. What do you think happens when a caster loses a cast? They magically get damage back?
Of course not, but they are doing overall a lot more damage with a single cast than bards do, even with WM on, which is the main issue of WM. Since it doesn't really bring out what it should be, most of the time you're better off without it anyway. At least until now. And that's not only my personal feeling but every bards in my FC.
3. 1.5 second cast times are a joke.
Indeed. But it doesn't matter with a maximum potency of 150 which can be fired on a regular base. I won't count EA into account here, since the loss of Auto-attack is destroying it's value.
4. "WM is a minor upgrade for high risk". Well casting is "the same dps you always dealt, with double the cast times, yay". Casters don't even have a fallback like bards do.
Everyone who is playing bard as the main class, will tell you that WM is not rewarding in any way. It's actually a downgrade of damage you get for giving up the one thing that made bards good (in my eyes): Mobility.

Long story short. I can understand that casters are having a bad time with encounters designed to annoy ranged dps classes, but at least, if your attacks get trough, they go BOOM the big way, while WM is simply told a waste of time.