Warrior dps opener

I would like to discuss the opener from warriors with some people that tested it.

The opener for tanking is probably not about to change much except for using fell cleave instead of inner beast when possible, and there has been some talk of using a prepull of 30 seconds to get a 3 fell cleave berserk as OT.

The thing is, 30 sec prepull may not always be an option. In the case of a no prepull / 5 sec prepull, my gut feeling would be to go for something like:

HS->maim -> storm's eye->fracture->HS->maim->storm's eye or path->HS+berserk->fell cleave->infuriate->FC->maim->eye->HS->skull sunder->BB+ raw intuition->FC->fracture(end of berserk)

Obviously weaving in crit and pot CD in there too, but that's not what is at stake here.

The main question i have is: should one wait the 10 extra seconds before pulling the trigger on berserk ? Mainly i think the rest is self explanatiory. Now that no tank is locked into 123 hate combo, expecting to use BB combo second and not rip the aggro is a bit random, i would say.

Another question is: if you intend to do a 30 sec prepull, one must assume you are going most likely for a HS + berserk -> FC -> FC combo... How is any tank supposed to hold hate against this opening ? THey will not have completed their first hate combo by now, wouldn't you just give them no chance to build any hate ?

If you know you're going to pull hate then don't do it until decent aggro has been established. If you see your going too hard pull off and adjust. DPS have to do this quite often on a fresh pull when using certain CD's.

If you're running with a tank you know then make sure they are prepped for it to voke back and aggro combo if hate gets too out of wack.

I agree - it's a no-brainer. If you think you are going to overwhelm the main tank's threat and your job isn't main tank, why would you go out of your way to make his\her job harder? Main tanks hate it when DPS do it, they'll hate it when you do it as well even though you can take the hits.

Sometimes I think this community gets a little *too* obsessed with the numbers and doesn't look at the big picture of the overall fight. Fights aren't there so you can pull ACT full screen and just watch yourself soar above the rest. Have a mind for making sure that you're doing the best job for the whole team, not just ACT.

You guys did not understood me, at all. I never said i was considering trying to rip aggro -- i am discussing what is the optimal way to open up, mostly in a static setup. I am not obsessed with numbers, i merely look to optimize my job.

I too have wondered about how worth saving Berserk that extra time vs 3 FCs.

But, 3 FCs is so exciting.


My biggest issue currently though is trying to get used to using Deliverance while tanking (not exclusively, but stance dancing). So far it seems if I try to switch over to Deliverance mid fight to sneak in FC or a Berserk with it, I get pummeled.

Also, with 3 FCs as OT opener when Alex gets released.. We have to hope that the initial "jump" or whatever the boss does to go invulnerable of get away or whatever doesn't occur until the Pacification would take place with this new rotation.

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Originally Posted by Abbul_Stonecleaver

My biggest issue currently though is trying to get used to using Deliverance while tanking (not exclusively, but stance dancing). So far it seems if I try to switch over to Deliverance mid fight to sneak in FC or a Berserk with it, I get pummeled.

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If you take 20% less damage, then it is as if you had the stance on. Just cover for your stance dance with CD -- pop vengeance before deliverance and you will actually be sturdier than having none of the two. Pop Raw intuition and you actually are more or less the same as with defiance on, assuming the boss only does physical attacks in the meantime.

If you can't spare any CD for such use because the boss is actually hitting you too hard and you need them for defense... Might i kindly suggest that this may be the indication that you should not get out of defiance at all for this fight ? :p

Obviously in a raid situation where you do the 60 sec pre-pull is going to be best. For everything else so far, I don't even use infuriate on the pull. Pull with Deliverance, Tomahawk>(Vengeance)>HS>(IR)>SS>(brutal+Berserk)>BB for solid hate, HS>Maim>SE, Double Fell Cleave, Fracture.. Then Berserk falls off after 2 more actions, pretty much just rotate all cds until I have nothing left then switch to defiance and use Unchained. Whenever Vengeance is back up switch back to Deliverance and repeat. As for OT in general tho, doesn't seem much has changed outside of Fell Cleave for IB.

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Originally Posted by Casper

Another question is: if you intend to do a 30 sec prepull, one must assume you are going most likely for a HS + berserk -> FC -> FC combo... How is any tank supposed to hold hate against this opening ? THey will not have completed their first hate combo by now, wouldn't you just give them no chance to build any hate ?

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fracture -> ir + zerk -> fell cleave -> hs -> maim -> eye -> raw intuition -> hs -> maim -> path -> fell cleave -> infuriate -> fell cleave

Haven't done any testing for OT openers yet, but that should work.

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Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

fracture -> ir + zerk -> fell cleave -> hs -> maim -> eye -> raw intuition -> hs -> maim -> path -> fell cleave -> infuriate -> fell cleave

Haven't done any testing for OT openers yet, but that should work.

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In that opening though, you don't have maim and eye up for the first fracture, nor for the first cleave, yet it is still more frontloaded on damage than the other and more risky to pull aggro...

I don't know, i'm relly not sure about the benefits of a 30sec prepull. The more quiet

HS->maim -> storm's eye->fracture->HS->maim->storm's eye or path->HS+berserk->fell cleave->infuriate->FC->maim->eye->HS->skull sunder->BB+ raw intuition->FC->fracture(end of berserk)

Seems both more reliable (giving 10 sec to the MT to build aggro) and more overall dps (thats really to be seen in details). It depends on wether you lose more waiting for things to be ready, but at least all important attacks benefits from the buffs you want :)

I'll do some testing later. Right now i can't do a 9hit berserk... stupid nerf to SS, we need lots and lots more now :s

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Originally Posted by Abbul_Stonecleaver

My biggest issue currently though is trying to get used to using Deliverance while tanking (not exclusively, but stance dancing).

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Its good to stance dance when Equilibrium is up, specially with Berserk. Basically what you can do is, switch to deliverance when your hp is at about 75% (it will turn to 100% upon deliverance activation), with berserk increasing equilibrium healed amount, you can switch to Defiance and hit equilibrium.

My opener as MT is usually like this:
HS-> SS-> BB-> HS-> Maim-> SE-> Berserk(GCD)-> Deliverance(GCD)-> Fracture-> Internal Release(GCD)-> Bloodbath(GCD)-> Fell Cleave-> Infuriate-> Fell Cleave-> HS-> SS-> BB(insert crit prayer here)-> [here u will have about 4~ seconds on berserk, you can reapply Fracture if u know u wont switch to deliverance in the next 17seconds~]-> Defiance-> Equilibrium-> rest of the fight.


Hope this gives some insights.

How and what exactly are you folks doing to get 3 FCs in a zerk window? I've been trying and failing idk if its my skill speed or how I'm going about it. Help appreciated

It's your SS. You need a lot more than before to do 9 hits within Berserk. If you use Casper's opener you should be able to hit 3 FCs regardless since it ends on Fracture, though one thing I'd change about their's is moving Raw Intuition to directly after the 2nd FC since that will put it on CD faster/give you 1 stack of Abandon faster.

So how much skill speed is recommended now? I have around 550 or so I got off but can get on to check

That's more than enough. You only need about 450~ish, but it's ping dependent. You want to activate Berserk as late in the GCD as possible to make sure you get the last hit in and hit every GCD as soon as it comes off CD. The more SS you have, the more room for error, but not much.

Ok thanks for the insight I will get on to test and see what's going on but I kinda have an idea now. Appreciate it

Dont know if this helps but i do have two different openers: one of them being as MT the other one as OT with adjustments hare and there depending on encounters.
(especially when Alexander gets released then there will be alot of tweaks here and there).

MT Rotaion: I usually start the Pull with Overpower( Tomahawk if i have to position the boss etc.) followed by unchained right at the start. Then im gonna start the combo as follows:

Heavy Swing -> Maim-> internal realase + berserk -> Storms eye ->Heavy Swing -> Skull Sunder -> Butchers Block ->Fracture -> Heavy Swing -> Inner beast ( switch to Deliverance) -> Maim -> Sorms Eye -> then i get pacified -> I stay in Deliverance and use CDs to mitigate or switch back to defiance if needed.

Inner beast is optinal what u can do too is before applying Fracture switching Stance and then continue with "Heavy swing" and "Felt Cleave" instead.. This is optional and depends on your encounter. if mitigation is needed I usually use "Inner Beast". If healers are prepared/no big damage is coming for a while I go with""Felt Cleave"

I usually try to stay as much as i can in deliverance while also mitigationg with minor/Major CDs. If i have no choice then i turn on "Defiance".if i have "Unchained" rdy and there is no big hit incoming or major mechanic i activate it.

The OT rotaion is nothing special tbh u basicly just start with "Deliverance" :

Heavy Swing -> Maim -> internal Realease + Berserk -> Storms Eye ->
Heavy Swing -> Skull Sunder -> Butchers Block ->
Fracture -> Heavy Swing -> Felt Cleave -> infuriate -> Felt Cleave -> Maim -> then u get pacified

Optional Butchers block combo u can also use the Storms Path combo if u dont wanna steal aggro of the MT or if u need Mitigation.

After that its pretty basic u rotate Between your "Storms Eye" and " Butchers Block" Combo (Optional Storms patch for mitigation if needed) while keeping your fracture up and usingFelt Cleave whenever u can ( if u have to tankswapp i save my Wrath stacks and after the swapp i activate "Unchained")



PS: i havent included "Brutal Swing" in this becaus in some fights u dont wanna use your stun. If thats not the case, "weave" it in whenever u can.

Also big APOLOGY for triple post i typed too much D:

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Originally Posted by RamothElggur

Heavy Swing -> Maim-> internal realase + berserk -> Storms eye ->Heavy Swing -> Skull Sunder -> Butchers Block ->Fracture -> Heavy Swing -> Inner beast ( switch to Deliverance) -> Maim -> Sorms Eye -> then i get pacified -> I stay in Deliverance and use CDs to mitigate or switch back to defiance if needed.

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This is what I do atm, though I IB before HS since IR runs out before it if you HS first. If IB isn't necessary (dungeon bosses), I'll FC instead and switch to Deliverance after BB.

You could get a double FC in if you don't Unchained, but I don't think that's mathematically better (6 GCDs of nerfed damage, Berserk/IR either being delayed or only buffing nerfed damage, not being able to start with Eye, etc. etc.). Might be wrong though, can't say for sure.

Also, obligatory tip that you can edit your post to bypass the character limit.

IB or FC after IR also depends on your Skill Speed and how u time your attacks from waht iver experienced for me it works like a charm using IB / FC after heavy swing (IR is still up )
but that also depends on SS and ping i think

and the reason why i unchaine is when i start as MT so im not suffering the dmg penalty from Defiance at the start

PS thanks for the tip with that edit thing i keep that in mind :-)


( i ralely type in forums tbh so dont know every trick XD)

Could someone explain this 30 sec pre pull i just heard about this, but i have been hitting 3 FC no problem with no pre buffing.

now i use vengeance for an extra stack but after this week i will have enough skill speed so that i wont have too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUVt99hyIWM


I don't see how pre buffing would help get more FC in and to me that would be a waste and not terribly reliable.

Thank :)

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Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

This is what I do atm, though I IB before HS since IR runs out before it if you HS first. If IB isn't necessary (dungeon bosses), I'll FC instead and switch to Deliverance after BB.

You could get a double FC in if you don't Unchained, but I don't think that's mathematically better (6 GCDs of nerfed damage, Berserk/IR either being delayed or only buffing nerfed damage, not being able to start with Eye, etc. etc.). Might be wrong though, can't say for sure.

Also, obligatory tip that you can edit your post to bypass the character limit.

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What i do is HS>Maim> SE > HS> Maim>SP>pot>HS>berzerk IR>FC>infuriate>FC>Vengeance>Maim>Raw intuition>SE>Fracture>HS>Maim>FC>SP

Thats how i open a fight and keep up with most dps, hope it helps