Because we need another bard broken QQ thread :P

But in all seriousness.
i honestly feel WM was poorly implemented. the damage doesn't feel any different and although i get fantastic burst with my tweaked opener i feel like i'm suffering more from the fact that i need to stay in the stance if i want to enjoy iron jaws.
my 2 cents worth is this.

WM needs a significant boost in power output and they need to remove the gates on iron jaws and empyreal arrow. i'm fine with empyreal arrow having a cast time, that'll bring about more of a know when to use it situation which is fine.

i'd also like that they make it so barrage has two states. In the out of minuet state it does the original auto attack thing it had and in the WM state it has it's new effect apply since there isn't any autos. this will also make people want to be in WM if they want the boosted effect for Empyreal Arrow damage.

and please SE make it like the other stances and have no cast time. seriously 3 seconds is just stupid.

its not just bards its mch as well.

literally remove cast times give back auto attack and you'll finally see our dps on par with others and or least for most part not shit outside a burst every 90 seconds

i agree if they really wanted our dps to be on par with theirs then they have a lot they can do to make that happen.

They probably had trouble balancing mch and brd so rather than making us overpowered they made us gimp by design. they probably will tweak something later but for now we are screwed. glad there isnt any serious raids out yet.... groups WILL try to go brd/mch less and see if they can pull it off early on just cuz the difference in dps is so noticeable.

If you don't like WM then don't use it, its that simple. I doubt any raids will want to go without a bard because you can still play bard the exact same way as before.

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Originally Posted by Lancerz

If you don't like WM then don't use it, its that simple. I doubt any raids will want to go without a bard because you can still play bard the exact same way as before.

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Except that they nerfed the shit out of barrage (300 potency ogcd out of wm vs 960 average pre change) and the way that crit scales means you get less dps from bloodletter than you used to in i130 bis so you're getting way outscaled by all the other dps in the game.

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Originally Posted by lugiaXD

i agree if they really wanted our dps to be on par with theirs then they have a lot they can do to make that happen.

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Exactly! such as tweaking our weapon damage instead of adding cast time.

The fact that we're a trinity DPS class, and in our max DPS state (non-moving and sans support buffs) we can barely beat tanks in DPS is just bad. I think the stance and implementation are clunky and unintuitive, but regardless if you're going to do something like root a class in place that was designed to be mobile for the sake of giving us a competitive DPS output, don't forget to actually let us be able to do some real DPS in that state. Right now Bards and Machinists have to work 4x as hard for mediocre output than any other job in the game.

When looking at how strong a job is I typically want to see median players output, the fact that I've only seen good players put out numbers that are slightly better than a tank says a lot. The fact you have to be playing at a great level to do even remotely non-shame levels of damage is just bad for the jobs.

In expert roulette yesterday bard did 960~ and blm 1.100~ dps in the last boss. And blm ofc get foe for some extra dps. Not really sure is bards really that horrible what ppl say. Imagine what that bard would do with dragoon.

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Originally Posted by Sunako

In expert roulette yesterday bard did 960~ and blm 1.100~ dps in the last boss. And blm ofc get foe for some extra dps. Not really sure is bards really that horrible what ppl say. Imagine what that bard would do with dragoon.

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Hard to say due to how the numbers are being calculated at the moment (Limit Breaks being counted into individual DPS (will completely ruin the numbers due to the large inflation by itself), DoT calculations are incorrect), but again medium skilled bards/machinists are probably all on the lowest end of dps there is. A job with a priority system as easy as bards shouldn't be that hard to pull off decent numbers, full time WM should give near the same output as ever other DPS, it currently surely doesn't look that way.

This is ignoring the fact that they have a job (not sure about Machinist so I wont include) that from 1-51 is a mobile DPS w/support abilities, to a non-mobile DPS but mobile if you can't be immobile job at 52. Its implementation is clunky and unintuitive, you don't teach someone how to do something for 52 levels, then fundamentally change the core gameplay withing the last 8, and at this point you barely get rewarded for doing so.

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Originally Posted by Panasync

Hard to say due to how the numbers are being calculated at the moment (Limit Breaks being counted into individual DPS (will completely ruin the numbers due to the large inflation by itself), DoT calculations are incorrect)

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Just @ this part: LB doesn't parse as individual dps, it counts as its own thing. DoT simulation isn't perfect but over time they're pretty accurate.

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Originally Posted by Malevicton

Just @ this part: LB doesn't parse as individual dps, it counts as its own thing. DoT simulation isn't perfect but over time they're pretty accurate.

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As of last night, it was. It was a bug that any LB done would add to the person who cast it's DPS. Also the reason DoT simulation is messed up is because the new calculations for SS/SS and how they effect DoT's have not had their forumla figured out yet.