All of the AST cards seem to give great buffs, and the Spear card is no exception...in theory. Problem is, this card (which reduces the CDs of abilities by 20%) doesn't reduce the CD on already used abilities. This means if my tank pops all their CDs, and I use the spear card on them, it goes completely to waste. So either I have to keep a mental note of everyone's CD's and whether they are ready and will be used within the small window I have to cast that buff + the small window the buff lasts on them (not likely), "hail mary" it and just hope all goes for the best, be selfish and only use it on myself since there is at least some control with it there, or just burn it everytime I get it in hopes I get something else (most likely). None of which are really great options imo.
There really needs to be some "on use" effect, where the CDs of already used abilities get reduced the moment the Spear buff is cast one someone. And then from there any CDs used within the buff duration will be reduced by 20%.
The Spear card needs a slight rework.
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06-20-2015, 05:35 AMEudyptesThe Spear card needs a slight rework.
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06-20-2015, 06:04 AMEdenArchangel
Only level 38 but I was thinking the same thing. I've been royal road-ing the spear card every time because... why bother unless it's right before a boss starts or something.
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06-20-2015, 06:21 AMAlexia89
It will work fine in coordinated parties. Until then, just RR it and hope your next card is Balance.
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06-20-2015, 10:45 AMEudyptesThat's not a real solution though. Even if it works fine, or even great in raids with voice chat, it's still an issue for any pugs. Not to mention more casual players who will likely never have a proper solution to this problem. As it stands, no matter how you cut it is is simply worse than every other card on a base mechanic level.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexia89
I'm not 60 yet, so maybe something will change it by then, but looking ahead I'm not seeing anything that would suggest it will. -
06-20-2015, 12:48 PMAlexia89You can store it with Spread for one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eudyptes
Not all abilities are designed for use in all situations :) Besides, it's royal road effect is AOE and that can be nifty. -
06-20-2015, 02:42 PMEudyptesStore it for what though? That's the issue here. I can store it, great. I still don't know when my group members CDs are off CD and when they will be using them within 15 sec unless I'm using voice chat. I mean, sure there are some fights here and there where there is an obvious big hit coming and it's a safe bet your tank will be saving CDs for that, but what about the other 95% of the game? Plus the solution to a broken ability shouldn't be to sacrifice the ability to store any of your other cards just so this one can be on par with the rest. Not to mention that making it's main function be Royal Road fodder is pretty much all the proof you need that it needs a slight rework. And finally, the AE effect from RR'ing it is nice, but since it also reduces the potency by half, it makes even that situational since some effects (like Bole) are less effective in a lot of situations.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexia89
All of these abilities are already situational to an extent, but Spear is too situational. It's very unreasonable to consider it fine as is when you take pugs/more casual players into account. -
06-20-2015, 02:53 PMRoxas_AndradeI just unlocked AST, but I think that there's too many blueish cards. The card that saves MP should be pink, to resemble the other mp-related skills...Quote:
Originally Posted by Eudyptes
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06-20-2015, 04:28 PMEudyptesIt might seem overwhelming at first, but it doesn't take too long to memorize the names and their effects.Quote:
Originally Posted by Roxas_Andrade
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06-20-2015, 06:08 PMDreadrotI know right like we got red green yellow blue light blue and another blue why not just make the mana one pink like how the tp one is yellow but yea you kinda get use to itQuote:
Originally Posted by Roxas_Andrade
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06-21-2015, 01:49 AMsharazisspecial
Its amazing at the start of a Fight.
But after then it require some serious coordination which even then may not be worth it. -
06-21-2015, 02:20 AMGideonHighmourn"Hey guys! I just drew the Spear Card; don't use your CDs for the next several seconds, so that the Spear card can reduce your cool downs by several seconds."Quote:
Originally Posted by sharazisspecial
Seems counter productive to me, either way. You're throttling DPS to "get it's full effect"; that makes no sense.
(EDIT: This isn't really pointed at the person I quoted, just at the idea of the card and it's current function and the suggesting of holding off on using CDs to use it.) -
06-21-2015, 02:37 AMsharazisspecialThats what i meant by it won't be worth it in the middle of battle.Quote:
"Hey guys! I just drew the Spear Card; don't use your CDs for the next several seconds, so that the Spear card can reduce your cool downs by several seconds."
But another time it could be useful is during phase transitions.
What spear has over the other buffs. Is that CDR is useful to the entire party. -
06-21-2015, 02:43 AMGideonHighmourn20% CD Reduction certainly has it's uses, I'm not denying that.Quote:
Originally Posted by sharazisspecial
Timing is key with an ability like that, and when RNG is a (huge) factor you can't rely on drawing it when it'd be the most useful.
On paper, most of the AST buffs seem very nice and OP, however, you can't rely on them being drawn when needed. You could easily just end up drawing TP reduction during a transition phase, or something else equally as useless in that time frame. That's the price you pay for having such versatility; if they make all of the cards useful all of the time, there really wouldn't be any drawbacks to AST (in general). -
06-21-2015, 02:45 AMsharazisspecial
But you have Royal Road ,Shuffle and Spread so you aren't completely at the mercy of RNG.
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06-21-2015, 02:50 AMGideonHighmournThe only ability that removes the RNG aspect is Spread; all the others still rely on RNG. Using Royal Road also commits you to a longer CD on Draw.Quote:
Originally Posted by sharazisspecial
AST is RNG reliant, and outside of Spread, you will always be at the mercy of RNG. Pulling the right card at the right time will happen, but for every time it happens, there will likely be 3-5 other times when it doesn't. -
06-21-2015, 06:41 AMEudyptes
I've been continuing to play AST and thinking about the Spear card, and I've come to the conclusion that what it needs is (in addition to what it already does) an on use effect that reduces the remaining recast time on abilities by 20%. So if a 5 min CD has 10 sec left, then it'll knock 2 sec off that 10 sec and then it'll knock off the 60 sec it normally would if used again before the buff wears off. If that same skill has 100 sec left instead, it'll knock 20 sec off the remaining CD, but since the Spear buff will wear off long before it's CD reaches 0 again, we will just have to cut our losses and accept the 20 sec reduction.
This seems like the best solution to me, since no matter what it is beneficial, has natural diminishing returns should you get spear multiple times in a row and cast it on the same person with a long CD, and can't really be abused. -
06-21-2015, 07:51 AMNektulos-Tuor
- Additionally reduces abilities already on cool-down by 20%.
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06-21-2015, 08:52 AMAtoli
Yeah, the card would be fine if it just worked on abilities already used too, the way Eudyptes described.
Even if they had to reduce the amount of time it takes off the counter, it would still make the card a lot more useful than before.
I mean, I like the card. I can RR it to get my AoE buff without having to sacrifice Arrow for it, but the card is just a lot more useless than any of the others, which doesn't make sense .-. -
06-21-2015, 09:29 AMVanilleFang
I Royal Road it everytime. Its pointless compared to the other cards you can get, and its RR is useful in groups. Sometimes I even just let it time out, if I have a better card in spread that I don't want to use yet and I have a more useful RR for the situation coming up/at the moment. I don't have Shuffle yet, which will be a huge help.
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06-21-2015, 10:04 AMRoseM
Agreed with poster. lvled AST to 49, and so far Spear card seems to be completely useless, given the fact that it doesn't affect skill/buffs that are already on cooldown.
"Hey I got a Spear, gather around hold your CDs for 5secs, so I can reduce its CD for 5 secs!!" lol -
06-21-2015, 10:38 AMGhishlain
In a group scenario, I think the DPS who can make use of it the most would be DRG (Jump / Leg Sweep) NIN (Ninjutsu) and MCN (Quick Reload). All of these are thirty second abilities or less that they use frequently so they should always be able to make use of the recast effect. If you get some of their bigger buffs in the process, bonus!
Alternatively, just give it to yourself or the other healer, as most healers tend to save their CDs for "O SNAP" moments.
That or just keep RRing it for the bonus effect =p That's how I see it. -
06-21-2015, 10:41 AMAtoliI think the issue most of us have with the card is not that we don't have an idea what to do with it, it's the fact that the card is so much less useful/harder to use than ANY OF THE OTHER ONES.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghishlain
Basically, you have 5 cards that act the same, are useful on (not exactly, but pretty close) the same level, and then you have the Spear card. -
06-21-2015, 10:48 AMGhishlainYep, I understand, just trying to give my two cents as the card itself isn't quite as straight forward as the other cards and only specific class/jobs will be able to make the most out of it. While it's nice to AoE everything via RR, sometimes it might be the best idea. For example, you RR Spear, and you get Spire, except your DPS composition is BLM SMN SMN NIN. Okay, so only three people can make use of Spire (both tanks + NIN). Or say you get Bole, but there's no serious AoE coming out in the next 15 seconds and only the MT is taking damage.Quote:
Originally Posted by Atoli
Spear is a niche card compared to the six and probably the weakest, so I'm just trying to help others figure out a thought process behind it to at least make it more viable. It's not useless, but certainly a lot more niche than the other cards. -
06-21-2015, 10:52 AMVlady
Hmm. Not all abilities in this game will be on par. Plenty of jobs have near useless to barely niche abilities. Overall Astrologian buffs are very powerful. You cannot use that card on yourself at the least before you use your mana regen cooldown if you cannot coordinate well with others?
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06-21-2015, 01:09 PMLycorisSelunis
Use Spear on classes that have short cds they use often example-bard's bloodletter. I have been told its great for mch too. Or royal road for aoes, whatever.
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06-21-2015, 05:04 PMEudyptesI personally would never expect every card to be perfectly balanced. There will always be ones that are better overall/more ideal than the others. But with that said, they should all be balanced enough that they are least in the same ballpark. As of right now, that's the case for 5/6 of them. Spear is just very far behind and needs a little something to get it closer to the rest.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlady