New DoH Skill Descriptions

Source: http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/commen...e_hand_skills/

http://i.imgur.com/xFvbRE9.png

Finally a system that actually requires skill and proper resource management instead of stat stacking and spam ToT. Let the theorycrafting and rush to max HQ crafts begin!

Interesting. Thanks for posting these.

Those can't be correct. At least, not wholly correct.

I don't see any difference between Basic Touch and Precise Touch as described here, in terms of their effects. And the restriction on Precise Touch's use? There's got to be something more to it.

Maker's Mark? Can only be used on the first move, but its duration is dependent upon current progress? Umm .. on a first move, that Current Progress is going to be zero ... There's got to be something more to it.

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Originally Posted by Roth_Trailfinder

I don't see any difference between Basic Touch and Precise Touch as described here, in terms of their effects. And the restriction on Precise Touch's use? There's got to be something more to it.

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You get 2 Inner Quiet stacks with Precise Touch.
One from the touch, one from the special effect of precise touch, at the cost of only 10 (or 5 if WN) durability.
It may help with the stuff that needs your Inner Quiet stacks to be equal to Whistle stacks, such as Trained Hand.

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Originally Posted by Roth_Trailfinder

Maker's Mark? Can only be used on the first move, but its duration is dependent upon current progress? Umm .. on a first move, that Current Progress is going to be zero ... There's got to be something more to it.

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Yeah it sounds a bit confusing.

Maker's Mark works fine, idk how good it'll be because you have to decide between that and Muscle Memory.

So you use it on the first step, it gives the buff. Now Flawless Synth is 0 cost and 0 durability lost. The buff lasts x steps but then changes depending on progress. They'd put it at a set # of steps but flawless synth is still 90% success so if you were to go at it without steady hands there'd be some variation.

Precise Touch, from the sound of it, has as part of its own effect to add a IQ stack, while IQ would add its own stack on success. So you'd get 2 stacks for the 1 touch, up to the max stacks.

It's Byregot's Mircale that truly looks terrible. Either early on where you wouldn't want to set yourself back on stacks or later even moreso + it not being as good as other options. The best scenario I can think of is using it at 4 stacks, if it lowers to 2 stacks before adding the stack for the successful touch, you'd end up with 3 stacks instead of 5 with a 140% quality increase for a low amount of CP, something that might be good to do on an excellent early on.

We'll have to see how the math pans out with the stats and difficulties.

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Originally Posted by Roth_Trailfinder

Those can't be correct. At least, not wholly correct.

I don't see any difference between Basic Touch and Precise Touch as described here, in terms of their effects. And the restriction on Precise Touch's use? There's got to be something more to it.

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As aerolol said, Precise Touch grants 2 IQ stacks, which can be great for lining up IQ and Whistle stacks for Trained Hand or for just rushing to 11 IQ stacks for Byregot's *Whatever*. It's hard to say which will be better until we know how much progress/quality and CP we're working with.

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Maker's Mark? Can only be used on the first move, but its duration is dependent upon current progress? Umm .. on a first move, that Current Progress is going to be zero ... There's got to be something more to it.

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Not sure about this either and it doesn't look like anyone has commented in the thread about it. Maybe it depends on the item's progress level?

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Originally Posted by Alistaire

It's Byregot's Mircale that truly looks terrible. Either early on where you wouldn't want to set yourself back on stacks or later even moreso + it not being as good as other options. The best scenario I can think of is using it at 4 stacks, if it lowers to 2 stacks before adding the stack for the successful touch, you'd end up with 3 stacks instead of 5 with a 140% quality increase for a low amount of CP, something that might be good to do on an excellent early on.

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Keep in mind Trained Hand is amazingly efficient for its cost. It's Advanced Touch (48 CP) + Standard Synthesis (15 CP) for 10 durability. BM will be used to line up your stacks as you have to deal with IQ going up and Whistle going down. Plus we don't know how much CP we're working with at "end game" so for all we know, 2 BB rotations may even be feasible.

Maker's Mark could be insanely overpowered, if it gives several free CP/durability flawless syntheses. Filler moves to fish up good conditions and finish up a CZ before having to apply another SH are always welcome.

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Originally Posted by StouterTaru

Maker's Mark could be insanely overpowered, if it gives several free CP/durability flawless syntheses.

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I suspect we'll be using Maker's Mark + FS for lower level crafts and Muscle Memory for higher level ones, since they're both competing for the same first turn spot.

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Originally Posted by Alistaire

It's Byregot's Mircale that truly looks terrible. Either early on where you wouldn't want to set yourself back on stacks or later even moreso + it not being as good as other options. The best scenario I can think of is using it at 4 stacks, if it lowers to 2 stacks before adding the stack for the successful touch, you'd end up with 3 stacks instead of 5 with a 140% quality increase for a low amount of CP, something that might be good to do on an excellent early on.

We'll have to see how the math pans out with the stats and difficulties.

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Byregots Miracle looks like the new super ability to me, but we will see.

Incidentally between specialist (''job'') actions and the new all class actions, it seems like we will be freeing up quite a few slots.
Byregot's Brow is just a straight up better version of Byregots Blessing for example.

Edit: that's not correct. Byregots Blessing adds +20% per insight stack, Byregots Brow only 10%.

Just wanted to make sure everyone noticed that Tricks of the Trade can now be used on excellent condition as well as good. Gone are the days of wasting an excellent when you're at 10 dura! That's honestly how I always thought it should be but yay that they got it done ^_^

is that Muscle Memory... same with PbP but with 100% success rate?

So it's basically just adding even more RNG to the crafting process by forcing actions to rely even more heavily on things we have no control over. That's the general impression I'm getting here.

Or maybe I'm just cynical?

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Originally Posted by Penguinmayhem

So it's basically just adding even more RNG to the crafting process by forcing actions to rely even more heavily on things we have no control over. That's the general impression I'm getting here.

Or maybe I'm just cynical?

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Will have to wait and see at 60. So far I havent used the new abilities yet (im 54 on my gsm now).

I'm almost 58 but holding off on 60 until I can find someone (or myself) to reliably gather mats. I'm really frustrated at how entire maps are gated behind the main story.

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Originally Posted by Penguinmayhem

So it's basically just adding even more RNG to the crafting process by forcing actions to rely even more heavily on things we have no control over. That's the general impression I'm getting here.

Or maybe I'm just cynical?

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I see it as giving us a much larger tool set to deal with RNG. For top level crafting it seems we have to abandon rotations and make decisions on the fly - for skilful crafters this should reduce the random element rather than increasing it. Most of this will depend on precisely how the new skills operate, which we do t know yet.

Byregot's Brow....really is just a worse Byregot's blessing, huh?

My two cents:
Collectable Synthesis: well, it's used to make collectables. Collectables are hell, just know that.
Byregot's Brow: 1)it's a class skill, so it doesn't complete for a spot in cross-class. 2)up to 4 stacks it's better than Blessing, at 5 it's equal, at 6 it's worse. BUT it costs less CP, so it's straight better for up to 5 stacks, and might have some use over 6 if you find yourself out of CP. Overall, I'd say that it can be useful, maybe, but not in macros because good/excellent requirement.
Precise Touch: if you're on a good/excellent and would have used basic touch, it's better, of course. Just ask yourself if at that point of the craft you'd rather to have TotT for Comfort Zone stalling and 20 CP, or an additional stack. It should be obvious it can't be used in macros, but I'll point it out anyway because maybe it's not so obvious to everyone. I really don't see a way it could be used in any macro.
Name of Whatever: I haven't seen Master books III yet (walled behind collectibles hell), but I guess if you're going to make elemental crafts it could be very useful and finally a serious contender to Rapid Synthesis. IIRC it also can only be used once per craft, but I might be wrong (you shouldn't need more than one anyway).
Maker's Mark: Honestly I don't understand either how duration based on progress is going to work, but I guess it could be good for early CP stalling. Except possibly not really since it costs 20 CP itself so even with a full Comfort Zone you wouldn't really be covering for it. IIRC it also makes Flawless work 100% of the time, but I might be wrong. Still does anyone ever use Flawless at all? Really?
Muscle Memory: 6 CP, works 100% without buffs, increases progress by a third. Unless you're really tight on cross-class slots (which is very likely, sadly), it's a very good skill to have for these high progress synths. Honestly most crafts only needed one Piece By Piece (so far, however, and that might change), so it might actually be pretty good. Same spot as Maker's Mark, but probably much better overall. Also useful in macros.
Heart of the Whatever: For the craft itself, it's good (although it does cost 45 CP, and it's pretty vague on how likely are goods after it). HOWEVER, it does consume delineations, which are obtained via collectibles. In short, it's a skill that will ostensibly be used rather sparingly.
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Whistle mechanic is a bit harder to theorycraft, so from here take whatever I say with a(n additional) grain of salt:
Satisfaction:Should be useful to intentionally reduce whistles and free CP+wasted turn is a winner, no contest. However it is to be seen how much does that kind of stack boost actions. Should be difficult to use in macros.
Whistle While You Work:RNG central. From how I see it, 'progress increases significantly when stack size reaches 0 and effect wears off' means: if you're not careful you might complete the synthesis before using Byregot's whatever to max out quality. Also depends if the stacks go down during or after the step when the good status appears. It's very vague as to which crafting actions are increased in effectiveness (and by how much) when stacks are multiples of 3. Usable in macros? I guess, maybe. Most macros should be able to bring the stacks to 0 accidentally anyway.
Innovative Touch: S-E heard we liked RNG so much, they gave us more RNG. Honestly under SH2 it shouldn't be too bad, 70% chance of 100% efficient touch and a free innovation for 8 CP. Hasty Touch + Innovation however is 18 CP and one extra wasted turn and 80% chance, which isn't too bad under Comfort Zone. Decisions and situations, basically. Usable in heavy RNG macros, I guess.
Nymeia's Wheel:This one is possibly the one that raises the most questions: restores item durability, which is good. Only costs 18 CP, which is also good and possibly the cheapest action of that kind. Amount determined by current whistle stacks is so much ??? I don't even. More whistle stacks = more durability? What's preventing us from using it immediately in that case? 36+18 CP over 2 actions might be the most cost-efficient durability recover in the game. Also, Whistle effect ends upon use: does this mean that progress will increase significantly as it's supposed to when it ends normally? So we could use the above combo to be both a durability restorer AND a progress advancer, and use the CP and durability previously used to advance progress to... restore durability? Sounds almost too good to be true. We'll have to see, definitely. Possibly usable in macros.
Byregot's Miracle: honestly even with level 56-59 crafts, there were many situations where 11 stacks byregot's blessing with great strides didn't cut it. It's very much possible that we'll have to get stacks to 11, use Miracle, get stacks back up to 11, and use Blessing. HOWEVER, it's also true that it's possibly better to just spam hasty or basic touch at 11 stacks, since they actually should matter to progress at that point. Honestly this is to be tested. Low CP cost is a plus, however, and it might possibly be useful to align Whistle stacks and inner quiet stacks. Usable in macros... but I don't see this one having much use in them.
Trained Hand: High efficiency, success rate sufficient for Steady Hand, but you have to increase progress with quality which goes against everything we've known so far about crafting, and it's situational at best. High CP cost doesn't help really, on a skill that's difficult to use as it is. I'd wager it's impossible to macro.

Overall, I think that crafting is, for sure, a lot more fun with these skills. The Whistle mechanic overall adds depth to an already rather deep system. It's difficult to analyze at the moment because there's a million new crafts and situations and books to grab and gear to change and meld and so on. I think it will take a bit to sort everything out. But after all, that's what an expansion is all about, isn't it? It wouldn't be fun if we sorted everythiung by day 1.

Brow is equal to Blessing at 6 stacks, since stack number 1 doesnt give any bonus to control.

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Originally Posted by elfolampo

Maker's Mark: Honestly I don't understand either how duration based on progress is going to work, but I guess it could be good for early CP stalling. Except possibly not really since it costs 20 CP itself so even with a full Comfort Zone you wouldn't really be covering for it. IIRC it also makes Flawless work 100% of the time, but I might be wrong. Still does anyone ever use Flawless at all? Really?

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I've tested this out (on just a few items), the number of free turns you get depends on the progress level of the item. So for a 35 durability item, it may give you 4 stacks but for a 70 durability item, it may give 7. If you don't miss any of the Flawless Synths, it comes out to about the same amount one Rapid Synth gives. If you pick up a ToT proc at any point, you get free progress since it's a full refund.

I'll test this on some higher level crafts later but it seems like the verdict for now is it's usable if you're a GSM but definitely not worth the 2 cross class slots you would need for any other craft. I wouldn't be surprised if it was just a leveling tool that turns out to be useless later though, just like Flawless Synth itself, since it shares a slot with Muscle Memory.

Whistle while you work is also missing a very important part of the description.

When it says the progress goes up when it wears off the full meaning is this:

You will involuntarily use a step when it wears called "finishing touches". This has a chance to fail (but idk the %), it feels around the same as a CSII (could be other factors) and does use 10 durability.

So be careful about the durability left when that's gonna wear off.