Lustrate nerf

https://i.imgur.com/imcLj3C.jpg
oh well

The only thing you can't do anymore is healing in Cleric Stance. It's a flat-out buff in all other aspects.

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Originally Posted by amihavingfunyet

It's only 50 potency weaker than Cure 2, has no cast time and has a chance to crit. It's definitly not dead as an emergency button. Oh, it's also stronger on all non-tanks than it was before.
Edit: As Akashiya mentioned it also gets affected by buffs like Mantra and Illumination now.

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Getting out of Cleric Stance to toss a heal seems like too much effort. People will just have to die I guess.

now that it equal to cure II , why it still requires aeatherflow stacks? i understand that it still an insta heal spell but still

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Originally Posted by YISUG

now that it equal to cure II , why it still requires aeatherflow stacks? i understand that it still an insta heal spell but still

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You're asking why an instant cast, 1 second recast,no MP cost, 600 potency heal needs some sort of CD/restriction?

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Originally Posted by YISUG

now that it equal to cure II , why it still requires aeatherflow stacks? i understand that it still an insta heal spell but still

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Why wouldn't it require an aeterflow? strong insta heal is still op

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Originally Posted by amihavingfunyet

You're asking why an instant cast, 1 second recast,no MP cost, 600 potency heal needs some sort of CD/restriction?

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still
but you know that sch dose not need a spell equal to cure II cuz the adlo crt might be somethime equal to a cure II heal

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Originally Posted by YISUG

still
but you know that sch dose not need a spell equal to cure II cuz the adlo crt might be somethime equal to a cure II heal

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So remove lustrate all together because that's really all it ever was was a instant cure 2 that ignored some mechanics

http://puu.sh/itpDK.jpg
Please look forward to it

Not a nerf.

It will be able to crit, it is now going to be more potent on non-tanks, and it will be affected by buffs now etc. The only thing this does is make SCH even more technical - you can still use those "maintenance Lustrates" while clericing it up via having that cast land a tiny bit later than before, from depopping Cleric Stance after your cast, then landing that heal. Then you can resume the DPS action, albeit you will be locked for 5 more seconds into Cleric Stance in that case due to the doubletappage of before. So you will have to take that into account at times. Just makes the job a bit more technical.

Guys... guys! Mantra, Convalescence, Fey Illumination and Disspation will make this nearly a potency 1000 spell. Those are going to be some huge numbers.

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Originally Posted by Waterdeep

Guys... guys! Mantra, Convalescence, Fey Illumination and Disspation will make this nearly a potency 1000 spell. Those are going to be some huge numbers.

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Cure II has been 650 potency since forever lol.
About it not being a nerf, it actually isn't and is at the same time. If we consider new tanks will have 16k hp, lustrate would instantly recover 4k hp. Considering we're going to have 800+ mnd with i170 gear, lustrate will now heal 4.5k ish.

The only issue is that lustrate no longer bypasses healing debuffs and cannot be used mid cleric stance.

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Originally Posted by mp-please

Cure II has been 650 potency since forever lol.
About it not being a nerf, it actually isn't and is at the same time. If we consider new tanks will have 16k hp, lustrate would instantly recover 4k hp. Considering we're going to have 800+ mnd with i170 gear, lustrate will now heal 4.5k ish.

The only issue is that lustrate no longer bypasses healing debuffs and cannot be used mid cleric stance.

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Don't forget to crit-adjust/DET-adjust as well now (when compared to the previous "static Lustrate"). Also the fact stacking crit will not only make us crit more often, but our crits will be higher numerically.

That's a thing though, with Infirmity and similar debuffs.

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Originally Posted by Tranquil

That's a thing though, with Infirmity and similar debuffs.

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Now that specialty will be given to WHM, with Benediction and Tetragrammaton being percentage based.

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Originally Posted by tjw

Now that specialty will be given to WHM, with Benediction and Tetragrammaton being percentage based.

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Funnily enough, yeah. :p

These kind of mechanics haven't been really prominent lately, though. Even in T5 progression back in 2013 it was more satisfying to land those heals so that they landed immediately as Death Sentence hit the tank and the Infirmity icon got up, but so that the heals still healed for their normal values, than it was to Lustrate away. (Of course that was done too, though!). Oh well, funsies to be had from here on too! Here's hoping for some interesting mechanics and shit.

With this change, I'm now expecting a larger array of Infirmity-style debuffs to be hitting the table come Heavensward.

[EDIT]

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Originally Posted by tjw

Now that specialty will be given to WHM, with Benediction and Tetragrammaton being percentage based.

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Do we know for a fact that Tetragrammaton is going to be percentage based? I don't recall their being a screenshot of the ability and my understanding was that Tetragrammaton will be an instant heal, with no mention if it'd be percentage based or not. Given how Lustrate has been modified, I wouldn't be surprised if Tetragrammaton is a potency-based Cure as well.

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Originally Posted by Tranquil

The only thing this does is make SCH even more technical - you can still use those "maintenance Lustrates" while clericing it up via having that cast land a tiny bit later than before, from depopping Cleric Stance after your cast, then landing that heal. Then you can resume the DPS action, albeit you will be locked for 5 more seconds into Cleric Stance in that case due to the doubletappage of before. So you will have to take that into account at times. Just makes the job a bit more technical.

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I'm having quite a discussion with a friend about this. He mains Scholar, while i currently main White Mage. I agree with Tranquil and think all it does is to add an extra off global cooldown if you use lustrate while DPSing. And you can only use lustrate up to 3 times a minute anyway. There is the additional problem with being locked in cleric stance, but if that is a problem you probably shouldn't use cleric stance anyway. He on the other hand says that this is a huge hit to a scholars DPS and says that my argument is purely theoretical, but he doesn't say where he really sees the problem.

I'd like to hear more opinions on this topic.

WTF?!

So now SCH can't give big heal to WAR? :(

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Originally Posted by Naryoril

I'm having quite a discussion with a friend about this. He mains Scholar, while i currently main White Mage. I agree with Tranquil and think all it does is to add an extra off global cooldown if you use lustrate while DPSing. And you can only use lustrate up to 3 times a minute anyway. There is the additional problem with being locked in cleric stance, but if that is a problem you probably shouldn't use cleric stance anyway. He on the other hand says that this is a huge hit to a scholars DPS and says that my argument is purely theoretical, but he doesn't say where he really sees the problem.

I'd like to hear more opinions on this topic.

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This technically has no effect on SCH DPS. It affects how a SCH may play while DPSing and more of a style change than an actual DPS nerf. It means SCHs will need to be more tactical about their stance dancing (they should be already) and not "HURR DURR CLERIC STANCE ALL DAY BECAUSE I HAVE 3xLUSTRATE!!!".

For a WHM main, this is nothing new, but for a SCH main it might be a culture shock of sorts. While I can see this being a minor hit to a SCHs DPS due to less up time on Cleric's Stance, saying this will be a "huge hit" to SCH DPS feels like completely hyperbole to me.

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Originally Posted by Eul

WTF?!

So now SCH can't give big heal to WAR? :(

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... really... ? c.c

ever heard of the 20% healbuff from WAR? xD

Curious if you can turn that into a 600 Potency Heal/Shield with the other stance. Wonder if that's why they went that direction with it.

You call this a nerf?
Say goodbye to easy mode, Scholars.

Is it weird if I'm actually really looking forward to this? Yes it affects our playstyle and some Scholars will need to unlearn bad habits but I feel like the benefits far outweigh the negatives.

I was worried when I saw Lustrate Nerf, but you have teased me.

I see no problems here. Just extra stance dancing which is no problem.

Us Schs are known for our dancing skills.

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Originally Posted by Tint

... really... ? c.c

ever heard of the 20% healbuff from WAR? xD

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Um, if WAR has 13k HP, with Lustrate you can heal around 3250 instantly, without un-Cleric Stance.

But I don't know if with WAR's Defiance and PLD's heal buff (or with AST's heal buff too) some QoL will change. /shrug

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Originally Posted by Eul

Um, if WAR has 13k HP, with Lustrate you can heal around 3250 instantly, without un-Cleric Stance.

But I don't know if with WAR's Defiance and PLD's heal buff (or with AST's heal buff too) some QoL will change. /shrug

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If your WAR needs 13K HP for T13, something is dramatically amiss.. No offense.

Well, it's not so bad, but as somebody else has stated, you won't be able to sit in cleric for a long period of time relying on 3 stack of aetherflow without ever seeing the tank getting in danger. I've used more lustrates under cleric than the ones I would like to admit lol, the lustrate <tt> macro while DPSing no longer makes any sense, gonna have to delete it and put something else there.

Yes, it is a nerf, but only to those who took advantage of how ridiculous it was to have 3 25% instant heals every 60 seconds while DPSing. The strategy of the people who didn't "abuse" that in the first place will remain unaffected.

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Originally Posted by Gallus

Yes, it is a nerf, but only to those who took advantage of how ridiculous it was to have 3 25% instant heals every 60 seconds while DPSing.

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Ehh, it really isn't a nerf in the grand scheme of things. I have been purposefully "maintenance-Lustrating" in Cleric Stance as many other DPSing scholars surely do, but it's not like people like me can not adjust to this new version of the spell. You will literally only lose the oGCD toggling time at the end of your cast before you land your Lustrate, and then the time it takes to reactivate CS. That is not a long time even if you do all of that toggling on top of an ability with a cast time - but it will be even better if you weave it into Ruin II or a similar skill, where you'll be able to more or less pull off the combination of toggling off CS, landing your Lustrate and reactivating CS, before or around when your GCD is back up.

That's just the technical aspect of it, though. 600 potency with crit/DET adjustment as well as the occassional buffs (like Convalescence) also oomph up this new Lustrate on tanks. (Never mind it being more potent on non-tanks now).

Lustrate affected by crit? I could get used to this! It may be a "nerf", but it's a nerf I was looking forward to.

Yeah, I'm not particularly sad about this change. Not being able to use it to ignore effects like Infirmity and Overcharged is the biggest loss, of course, but I'm happy with it for stance dancing and for general purposes.

- Huge potency for an instant heal on non-tanks
- Still quite powerful for tank healing, especially with buffs/CDs
- As Tranquil says, while you won't be able to effectively use Lustrate to avoid popping out of Cleric Stance entirely, it doesn't stop skilled stance-dancing at all. In fact, if you're already in the habit of spending most of your stacks on Energy Drain rather than Lustrate, you probably won't notice much of a difference.

It's a buff, it was much more optimal to keep a stack of aetherflow for energy drain instead of lustrate and actually cast a healing spell by switching CS off. In short it used to be : energy drain + healing spell (by CS dancing) > Lustrate + dmg spell. It's a welcomed buff to better heal dps, who were the primary targets of lustrate.

It always felt like a waste to use Lustrate on DPS. I am glad that it will be more effective for healing non-tanks. I can deal with cleric stance (plus my faerie can still heal).

Being able to ignore certain mechanics/abilities sure was sweet. (e.g. Infirmity from Death Sentence, Overcharge...etc.)
Oh well.

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Originally Posted by giantslayer

It always felt like a waste to use Lustrate on DPS. I am glad that it will be more effective for healing non-tanks. I can deal with cleric stance (plus my faerie can still heal).

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Healing DPS with anything other than an AoE heal feels like a waste, to be honest.

There are so many of them and they move around so much, except when they're supposed to! (to dodge things).

Lustrate needs a cooldown as scholars are already insanely strong as can be right now. Maybe a 3-5 second cooldown. Itleast white mages are sort of catching up to scholars in Heavensward. Its an overall good change but there will still be big issues with astrologian and scholars dominating all content. Regen needs to be reworked to be able to provide some sort of burst healing when the game is centered around spurts of burst healing. Maybe Alexander will change that with more fights like odin and king behemoth using constantly damaging raid attacks.

Whether it is a nerf or not depends on your playstyle. I already immediately go out of Cleric Stance when I'm about to heal, so it doesn't affect me much at all.

Well scholar just got gutted.

I am not pleased. On warriors this was one of the most effective heals in the game. WAS.

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Originally Posted by SovereignAegis

Well scholar just got gutted.

I am not pleased. On warriors this was one of the most effective heals in the game. WAS.

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Still is. You can still use it quite a bit. There's now only 2 percentage based heals, and both are on long cooldowns. It's not ruined, it's just different, and in a good way.

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Originally Posted by amihavingfunyet

It's only 50 potency weaker than Cure 2, has no cast time and has a chance to crit. Oh, it's also stronger on all non-tanks than it was before.
Edit: As Akashiya mentioned it also gets affected by buffs like Mantra and Illumination now.

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It's also getting stronger with your gear, instead of being dependent on your tank's gear.

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Originally Posted by UOdhn

Still is. You can still use it quite a bit. There's now only 2 percentage based heals, and both are on long cooldowns. It's not ruined, it's just different, and in a good way.

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I am trying to stay optimistic but on scholars this was our only burst heal. Everything else was tied to a shield and so the actual healing was significantly lower. I don't know the scholar new skills in detail quite yet but at present I am anxious. Lustrate under galvanize was a fantastic way to secure a dead tank.