I want to play (and enjoy) machinist but I have some major concerns

I played this game well over a year ago then took a break I mained scholar and adored the class. (focus on studies, changed fields completely from med -> compsci which of course took my full attention).

However with the addition of heavensward I am by far interested in dark knight and machinist. Dark knight doesn't scare me, I am an exceptional tank that can hold aggro 98.9% of the time and does marks and yadda yadda.

BUT Machinist is a DPS class. I don't play DPS classes at present cause none of them appeal to me whatsoever. I originally was coming to play summoner but then I realized it was actually a watered down subpar DOT based class, and so I have no DPS experience or classes.

However that being said I am far from ignorant on how this game works.

Think of it like a pyramid, tanks are on top, healers slightly below that (seems to be more healers than tanks) and then dps are WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY down below that as almost a sub-human class.

I know this as:
-DPS queues are mind bogglingly long. 30+ minutes, it is bloody insane.
-DPS are kicked even if they draw aggro by accident.
-DPS are kicked if they don't deal enough damage.
-DPS are kicked if they don't do their maximum damage rotation at all times. (IE: I've seen many bards kicked because they didn't use that 25% or less HP move.)
-DPS are hilariously easily replaced in dungeons when removed, there are so many of them it's like an insane clog.

-In FCs the tanks/healers are useful to help friends, the DPS are considered irrelevant because they won't actually be able to improve your chances of success anywhere close to that of a healer/tank.
-Similar to the point directly above, other DPS cry and wail and lament for a tank/healer to queue with them- meaning they get into events/make friends and allies much faster.
-All I need to say as a scholar is "healer lfp" in shout and I will get a group within seconds because I am a healer.
-DPS are allowed to stay dead and can and will be left dead for entire boss fights or raids.

And there are literally like a hundred more microaggressions against DPS classes I can think of but you get the jist of it.

And don't say "This doesn't happen" because I have seen it over a year ago when I played and I still see it now. It hasn't changed and if anything the heiarchy of dominance is EVEN STRONGER NOW.

I see tanks and healers (when I am leveling my pld right now) absolutely troll the everloving shit out of the team and it's all okay because they can just instant-queue immediately after.

OR they demand "kick that DPS or I leave and you can have fun without me" and they get their way because 9 times out of 10 if they leave you'll be sitting on your thumb for a solid 10-15 minutes praying for another tank/healer to come.


So I am INCREDIBLY discouraged at the fat that the machinist falls under a DPS class, I don't even know what to do at this point. I see these things every time I log into this game and I want to enjoy the machinist but with things being like THIS... I severely doubt I will be able to and that I will immediately get frustrated.

Hi! You can bypass the maximum character limit by editing your post so you don't back to back post like that, OP. It's counterintuitive, I know, but what can you do?

Otherwise, you might wanna back off and have a sandwich. Yeah, there are some toxic members of the community towards every role, but it's not as harsh towards DPS classes as you're making it out to be. At least, not usually. I might have those problems in 1/10 DF parties who want me to perform at optimum like it's a coil raid or get out- and those people can go sit on Longhaft's lever for all I care. At the end of the day, just play what you think is fun. You're there for you to have fun, not to placate total strangers who may or may not act like total jerks to you.

I too deeply care about what others think of me and my role in a video game and let that extreme, crippling pressure influence my every decision.

I've never ever experienced that someone wants to kick a dps because they are badly geared or dont play their job well.
I've seen players leave because they think the dungeon is too slow, but never seen an initiated votekick on dps.

at lvl 50 queuetimes aren't longer than 15 minutes for roulette dungeons, and wod-ct-st gets instapopped sometimes

The only issue with dpsqueues is low level roulette

Either Jenova has something wrong with it, or you have been playing with some really bad folks.

These DPS "issues" are non existent for the most part. Just play your job well and you'll do fine.

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Originally Posted by Kiara1

I've seen players leave because they think the dungeon is too slow, but never seen an initiated votekick on dps.

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I've seen it a grand total of once. Out of hundreds (perhaps thousands?) of dungeon runs over the course of nearly 2 years now.

Yeah, OP is making it way overblown. Also, good DPS, from what I've seen, are highly valued in FCs and LSs. Usually there's plenty of people willing to tank and heal, but DPS that can actually reliable put out good damage and handle mechanics? Those are gold.

In the DF, no one wants to tank because of pubbie abuse, etc.

DPS is a different sort of monster compared to tank and healer. Sadly it is true that they are frequently dehumanized. You aren't even seen as a damager (like tank or healer)! You are Damage Per Second. A number.

And there are a lot of DPS out there and you are easily replaced.

That said there are DPS jobs that are worth being aware of. Moreso than the tank or the healer a good DPS is very aware of the battlefield and will CC enemies as needed (BLM seems to be particularly good for this). Bards can sing to help allies. Physical damage dealers are the ones desired most (at present) for high damage, single target Limit Breaks.

I think, since you've tanked and healed you can get the hang of DPS very quickly. You'll know when to CC, what targets to attack, etc, based on your knowledge of tanking.

The big thing to remember about DPS is this: Yes there are a lot of us and a bad DPS can be easily kicked aside but a great DPS is a thing of beauty. Healers heal the team, tanks hold the attention of the dragon, we make the dragon be not alive anymore.

(For whatever it's worth I'm a new player so in terms of gear and precise skill I'm hot garbage compared to many. I've never been kicked. People seem to be pretty tolerant of players new to their roles.)

Woah there. I can assure you that the community is generally pretty great personality-wise and I've never seen a DPS kicked from the group that wasn't DCed or something myself. It's not a regular, every-day occurrence by any means for a DPS to be kicked for petty reasons. There's usually a very good reason from what I've seen.

People make such mountains over mole-hills when it comes to things like the DF. :l

Edit: Heck, a DPS was DCed from my DF group a few days back right before the last boss, but we all (as total strangers in DF) decided to wait it out and see if he could come back... And he did come back. :p Nobody was mean or whatever about it.

Yeah, I practically breathe the duty finder, and the only time I've seen people kicked is when they've been disconnected for an extended amount of time or if they're colossal jerks, never for poor play.

Hell, just a few days ago I had a Ninja do nothing but Spinning Edge > Gust Slash > Aeolian Edge (the filler combo), regardless if we were fighting a boss or pulling several packs at the same time. No one said a word about it (though I was tempted) and the Ninja remained with us from start to finish. Likewise, had a Bard last reset too who refused to do anything but Heavy and Straight Shots, no rude behaviour or kicks towards her. Datacenter Chaos sounds like a paradise judging by the horror stories I regularly hear. :p

It seems like your stressed out to try DPS because you don't want to make people mad? Is that what i'm gathering here?

In that case, i have the opposite aversion to healing and tanking classes.

If i go too long without healing something, i feel like i've gotten rusty and will be useless in a group. So i try to queue as heals every now and then. I'm also the overbearing type of healer. (is galvanize up? I should cast succor again. Oh no the tank is dying, i need to spam lustrate. The group is taking minor amounts of damage, i need to use sacred soil and then succor spam. We only have 15 minutes of protect left! I need to recast it or we might lose it mid fight!)

I'll never tank, though

I always get myself familiar with a place as DPS first, then i'll check it out as a healer.

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Originally Posted by SovereignAegis

I originally was coming to play summoner but then I realized it was actually a watered down subpar DOT based class...

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Summoners were one of the best dps in the game before the whole spell speed fiasco on the gear last couple patches, you know...

I've never seen this either. I've seen people kicked for any number of reasons, from being afk, to trolling, to any number of things. I've seen dps kicked for literally doing the bare minimum (think a smn doing nothing but ruin over, and over, and over again), but I've never seen a dps kicked for not perfectly optimizing their rotation, or pulling hate, or w/e. Your data center just sounds super aggressive.

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Originally Posted by Averax

If i go too long without healing something, i feel like i've gotten rusty and will be useless in a group.

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A good work-around for that is to use DF to run the easier dungeons first, then the harder and etc. until you feel more familiar with your skills and such. That's what I did and the class felt natural to me again pretty quickly. You also need to not be afraid of wipes. That used to be my worry, but I've found that DF people are pretty cool about wiping as long as the person supposedly causing it is nice and apologetic. I've never had people get really mad at me before for causing a wipe, and I learn pretty quickly from it to boot.

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Originally Posted by Miya_Carbuncle

A good work-around for that is to use DF to run the easier dungeons first, then the harder and etc. until you feel more familiar with your skills and such. That's what I did and the class felt natural to me again pretty quickly. You also need to not be afraid of wipes. That used to be my worry, but I've found that DF people are pretty cool about wiping as long as the person supposedly causing it is nice and apologetic. I've never had people get really mad at me before for causing a wipe, and I learn pretty quickly from it to boot.

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I come from a much more unforgiving community.

your loss im going from war to mch just roll with the punches like everyone esle.

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Originally Posted by Velthice

I too deeply care about what others think of me and my role in a video game and let that extreme, crippling pressure influence my every decision.

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Dayum

Please check one:
[x]rekt
[ ]not rekt

OP needs a Snickers or maybe a gallon of margaritas for all that salt.

Trash talk DPs but want to try playing it. Wow. I hope I never get you in any of my parties.

Meh, DPS is to chill out :v
Wanna chill out v:? Play DPS!!

The wait time is real, but so long you play on peak times its not THAT long. This coming from a person who plays DPS the most in an Euro server while I am in NA (and yet cant wait 30 seconds). Its not that bad XP

And if you pull aggro away from the target the Tank was hitting... its 100% NOT your fault.

Uh. I don't think he was bashing DPS, guys. Rather, he has reservations playing a DPS because he perceives other people to bash DPS that badly and doesn't want to be on the receiving end. This is not the generation of salt, but the fear of salt being dumped upon the OP.

I mean it's ultimately not nearly as bad as he thinks it is, but I can see why he'd think a lot of those things.

Only times I've seen DDs treated badly is when they behave badly/disregard mechanics. I was running through Amdapor Keep Hard my first time when, in coming to the first boss, I proceeded to kill the statues cause adds in a boss fight usually aren't good. I succeed in murdering one statue with noone telling me what for when I die to the laser attack. White Mage left me for dead the entire fight thereafter. Understandably, we wipe and I'm learned that the statues are good, laser is bad and the statues stop the laser. I haven't done any 'hardcore' content, though, so I'm not aware of how DDs are treated there.

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Originally Posted by Arkenne

And if you pull aggro away from the target the Tank was hitting... its 100% NOT your fault.

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Not always 100% true... Aggro is a lil more easyer to take in this game then others. If it's the start of the fight then it can be one of two things DPS hit to soon or to hard (used CD) and pulled off the tank or the tank is new, under geared, for got to use SO.. And so on... So it more like 50% of the time it's the tank or the DPS.

At lower levels it's much harder to get aggro right away. Not all the time but for most it can be a lil harder. It's always a good call to give the tank a 2-3 sec start befor going to town on a boss or a big pull just to make sure the tank had aggro on everything. Now the batter you get at tanking the easyer it will come and then you as the DPS can start right away.

And let's not for get iLevel .. If you out gear the tank.. By 10-20 iLv you can't get mad at them for not holding the boss or mobs bc you hit much harder then there gear can hold with.

That's all, I'm not saying you're wrong in any way just saying you're a lil less open minded about it and for got a lot of the key points to DPS and Tank relationship ^_^/ in you're post.

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Originally Posted by Lulu89

50% >:Ú!!!

you're a lil less open minded about it

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Okay, 50% then D:

Altho I am pretty sure Im more open minded than you might take me for... lets try to stick to encourage the OP into DPSing and out of his insecurity...

unless you're like that SMN i had in pt, that spammed Miasma II (out of range of mobs) and energy drain, and Ruin...i don't think you need to worry that much.
the only reasons i could imagine for getting kicked, is if you're afk, or as bad as that SMN. Well in primal fights and such, ppl get kicked really quickly, if they try to hijack clear pts, when they obv don't have any experience.
the only issue is the cue times, really.
but yah, just play it if you think you'll like it. you won't get into much problem, unless you're really bad :)