Increasing Cross Class Availability

So let me just start off here....one of the key features and systems of Final Fantasy 14 is the ability to change your class and retain that class' skills/levels/traits/etc.

Whats more, Square Enix encourages it through the availability of Cross-Skills...HOWEVER....there is a VERY VERY BIG downside to this system. So personally speaking I play a level 50 paladin, and have leveled a little bit of Conjurer, Marauder, and Pugilist on the side.

Now as I was looking around google today at the number of cross-skills that are available for GLADIATOR....I was pretty much shocked. There's a MASSIVE pool of skills that can be tapped into there that can improve a Gladiator's abilities in battle. But...when you look BEYOND the surface of it you notice something "off".

Specifically I mean the fact that Warriors and Paladins (and presumably other advanced Jobs) are restricted to only 2 classes with which to draw Cross-Skills from.

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So, Second Wind....as it stands Paladins have NO way of self-healing beyond using the Cross-Skill Bloodbath, or using Cure on yourself (though why you'd have cure slotted is beyond me, even though it won't do much good for you).

Now Second Wind's cure potency is based off of PHYSICAL DAMAGE...the higher your physical damage output, the higher the heal potency is. This makes it an IDEAL skill to slot for ANYONE who plays a Melee character.

But more than that...Warriors are able to use it, but not Paladins...Admittedly the potency would be different between the two since Paladins use a two-handed weapon and Paladins use a sword and shield.

Also it would break the two-class cross system....but beyond that...what reason exists for not making this skill available to Paladins? as far as I know...none

Goad and Invigorate....two skills that hit so close to home for tanking classes, its not even funny.

Warriors and Paladins are TP-based tanks. So, what happens when you run out of TP? Well...running out of TP means you're dead meat basically. In a group, you can hope that someone has one of 2 TP restore skills...but beyond that, you can't do anything.

There are two situations a tank can get himself into, in which he can become critically low on TP. In both of these situations, skills such as Goad or Invigorate would prove invaluable to boosting your effectiveness, and getting you out of the hole you're in.

The first is, you've accidentally over-spent your tp through multiple uses of Shield Toss, in an effort to grab aggro and pull mobs away while Provoke is on Cooldown, or you've used shield toss too many times to do damage. Regardless of how its done in that situation, shield toss can easily cause someone to over-spend TP.

I myself have even gotten into situations in World of Darkness or other Crystal Tower raids where I'm starting to run dry on TP and have to CONSCIOUSLY hold off on popping skills to allow my TP to regen to an "acceptable amount." (This is assuming you don't have a rogue in the party who can use Goad on you, or someone who can pop the other TP regen skill that the name of which escapes my memory).

The second situation....is even easier to get yourself into than over-spending.....and that is DYING and being Rezzed. When you are rezzed, your health, MP, and TP, are all at faaaaaaar less than 100%. So, you're rezzed in combat, and even though a healer can quickly get you back to 100% HP, that doesn't apply to TP...in which case...being able to quickly pop a skill like Invigorate right after a taunt can prove to be a saving grace to some degree, as you don't have to worry about getting to critical levels of TP.

I say its more down to what that class is about and hw it works. PLDs ain't known to self heal that's more WAR thing to do so giving PLD SW didn't seem to fit right and not to mention it would heal sodnall with PLDs low attack. Also it makes the jobs more unique to each other when it comes to cross skills.

What's MORE though, is that Gladiators have a TP recovery action in PVP!
PVP - Enliven
Instantly restores 50% TP.
Enhanced Enliven: Shortens recast time to 180 seconds.
Enhanced Enliven II: Increases TP recovery to 75%.

Goad. Same as above applies, with the change that it'd need to be applicable to yourself of course.


Whew....what a long suggestion.....Thoughts would be very much appreciated here from people.

Well, paladins get to play with Stoneskin instead of Second Wind. And looking at both, Stoneskin can cone on top by the fact that it has no CD and can be used on others.

Surely the downside is it is not instant like Second Wind.

Also 1handed/2handed weapons don't affect the potency of attacks. If you give plds and wars the same ilvl weapon and the same amount of str without extra buffs, their hits will donde the same damage.

I play as PLD and I never if rarely Inuave TP problems, probs cuz I use shieldnswipe as often as I can and I notice PLds usenshield lob from a short distance and this skill is the main TP eater. If you died in a word run. Then let another tank take over while you get to a OK state again.

you're right that Paladins have a lower physical attack than say other classes, however that doesn't mean a self-heal can't help you. Yes Paladins are more about mitigating damage, however, as i mentioned...we can cast Cure, which itself is a healing skill. If you're to argue that Paladins aren't known for heals, then Cure doesn't fit in either. Yet the base potency for SW is HIGHER than that of Cure. Additionally, potency can be boosted via Convalescence.


Additionally, if you look at the Warrior's cross-skills....they only have Bloodbath and SW to heal themselves with. (Mantra is excluded from this since it is a heal BUFF, much like convalescence).

Plus, Paladins contributing to heals is no longer completely unheard of anymore. Paladins are now getting a skill similar to Mantra: Divine Veil - This is a new ability that places a protective barrier around a target. If that player is cured then the barrier will spread to other nearby party members.

If you have TP issues while tanking Then you're doing something wrong when managing your TP. On Coils, fights have moments when you'll stop using actions because having to move or the likes that involve mechanics. That said, as PLD if you're MTing you have tools to lessen your TP usage: Flash and Shield Swipe. While Flash doesn't do damage, it keeps you by increasing and maintaining enmity on a boss/adds by using MP and by default restoring some TP. Shield Swipe is a 40 TP cost skill, with decent damage and it means you're using less TP than you passively recover in a fight. It needs to be used and abused as much as you can so long you have a good grip on the boss.

Ofcourse there's the occasional boss (Cloud of Darkness) where Shield Swipe cannot be used because the standard attack of the boss is magical, and thus cannot block any hit, but thats a scenario given on casual content and even so, CoD moves around the arena and vanished, making you stop attacking.

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Originally Posted by Martin_Arcainess

I play as PLD and I never if rarely Inuave TP problems, probs cuz I use shieldnswipe as often as I can and I notice PLds usenshield lob from a short distance and this skill is the main TP eater. If you died in a word run. Then let another tank take over while you get to a OK state again.

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Its more than a simple case of "let another tank take over until you get to an Ok state again." As any experienced MMO player can testify, a tank swap moment due to either the main tank dying, or mechanics, is a critical moment in group content. In the case where you have died and are brought back, how do you know for certain that the other tank has enough tp to last until you're ready? you don't...its a big gamble. Thats a problem that Invigorate would solve, or at least make it significantly less risky.

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Originally Posted by GokuSS400

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That's because Warriors come already with self healing skills (Inner Beast and Storm's Path), plus their Bloodbath lasts twice as long and the effect cant be improved if when using it as a Warrior you pop Unchained and Berserk, giving all of your hits quite the HP recovery.

Both classes are fine now and by the looks of it will be better in the expansion. If you'e problem is running out of TP then you sre simply managing its usage the wrong way. As they are right now, both have skills in GCD that either don't consume or don't use as much as you passively recover.

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Originally Posted by GokuSS400

Its more than a simple case of "let another tank take over until you get to an Ok state again." As any experienced MMO player can testify, a tank swap moment due to either the main tank dying, or mechanics, is a critical moment in group content. In the case where you have died and are brought back, how do you know for certain that the other tank has enough tp to last until you're ready? you don't...its a big gamble. Thats a problem that Invigorate would solve, or at least make it significantly less risky.

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That scenario has been given to me in the Final Coils and its still manageable. Again, TP is not an issue here. Its more concerning the fact thw guy who got resurrected and is just MTing again has less max HP for 2 mins and you know the other tank can't take the boss due to Boss mechanics (let's say Revelation from Phoenix)

Rather than argue about what would or wouldn't be useful and why, I'll just go back to your original question. Originally (version 1.0) player level and class levels were separate. At that time assigning attribute points when you leveled up, for instance, could be a difficult decision because those stats would be added to all classes. Similarly, new skills that you learned (pretty much all if not all of them) were available to be cross-classed with all classes. It could make for some strategic leveling choices. Personally I preferred to get things like cure and protect immediately.

In any case, interesting choices or not, what happened eventually was everyone would be more or less required to level every single class to be included in end game content. Regardless of whatever class you were actually playing you'd have access to every skill and so you could pick the 'best' way to play your class by mixing and matching them all. Eventually jobs rolled out and narrowed down what skills you could cross class while adding job specific skills and stats bonuses that made using a job sensible. This was to make the classes feel different from each other. Several skills were also updated at this time (and many other times).

When 2.0 rolled out they updated the skills again (and the entire combat system) and we still have vestiges of the previous system (like attribute points). While I wouldn't say the cross class system is obsolete, it's pretty stale currently and I'm not even sure if they intend to allow more cross class skills at level 60 or if any new skills will be added to the pool (seems somewhat unlikely).

For the future, OP, you can edit your posts to bypass the 1000 character limit. I know, it's counterintuitive and weird. Live and learn.

As for the topic in question, I also think cross class availability should be extended, especially considering some are things you NEED to cross-class(Hi, Provoke), or it would be very very unwise not to cross-class(Hey there Swiftcast). However, at the same time I think it might be messy because they never intended for that sort of thing, so you'd end up with skills like Blood for Blood and Raging Strikes on the same character. Remember in early PvP when Marauders used to do that? Man, that was rad. Probably not a good idea, but super rad.

Anyway. I think cross-classing and freedom of choice in character build in general should be redesigned from the ground up. In the current game you'd be silly to not play a job over a class in anything except PvP(And those are niche situations anyway, mostly those cuh-raaazy marauders) and generally speaking the only freedom in character choice is gear(Where there will always be BiS), 30 allocated stat points(Which, for most classes, stack 30 in their damage stat anyway), and five cross-skill slots, which every class has a definitive "Set" of, since generally speaking you get to pick... 5 out of around 10 tops, I believe, and some are just really bad(Why is skull sunder even cross-class?!). I feel like there should be more diversity among classes to help choose your playstyle- things that don't have incredibly obvious disadvantages compared to advantages, like 15 INT on an archer.

Though me personally, I think the best avenue for doing this would be to let individual class/job actions have different traits affecting them and let you choose between one of the traits. Like say, make the traits for Flash be Adds Blind/Costs TP instead of MP/Deals 50 potency damage to affected targets. Then get to choose only one with them, with them being reset with a Keeper's Hymn style item. Of course, I also think increased options for cross-class skills, preferably more choices, would also be a step in the right direction.