HQ Camlet

I need to ask, who has a reliable method of getting these? Since the guy in Mor Dhona wants 20 of the things, and I am getting infuriated at the fact it seems utterly and completely RNG based if you're going to get a HQ one. Thousands of seals wasted on camel hair, hours wasted on Cashmere fleece from duties, and getting nothing but normal Camlets, which apparently have ZERO use in anything. It's getting to the point where I really want to give up crafting entirely, if they have to resort to basing getting difficult stuff on PURE RNG. 4980 to HQ, 40 durability.

I have all my crafters at 50, so I have access to all the top tier skills, and cannot HQ them to save my life. If I'm lucky, and I mean RNG blesses me, I can get it to 89% to HQ. Normally? I get maybe 15% at BEST.

You can hand NQ in for most of the mats back to try again, you know.

What are your stats? That might be part of the problem.

445 craftsmanship and 398 control. It's 100% rng based, thus impossible to reliably craft worth a shit. I'm so sick of RNG in this game, it's infuritating to every single level of my being.

I didn't find this to be too difficult myself. I just used your typical steady hand 2, hasty touch, TotT quality gain/ CP management game while recovering durability with manipulation (mostly) and Master's mend (if needed for some reason). I only failed a couple, which isn't too bad since the time consuming materials are returned in exchange for the NQ product. I did get lucky though with several 40%-80% quality products turning out HQ and even one that was around 15%.

Just get through them. You might hit a bad luck streak, but the loss you take on a NQ product is pretty small. Just don't go in expecting that they'll all be HQ and you won't have too bad a time with it, though it does take a decent amount of time to craft each one multiplied by at least 20, if not 30 or so.

EDIT: just wanted to clarify that when I said 'just get through it' I meant not to sweat the bad luck crafts that end with 15% or so. Definitely don't mess with reclaiming since that could lead to a more severe loss than if you just finish with a NQ.

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Originally Posted by moudoka

445 craftsmanship and 398 control. It's 100% rng based, thus impossible to reliably craft worth a shit. I'm so sick of RNG in this game, it's infuritating to every single level of my being.

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Yeah crafting in this game sucks, there's just way too much RNG unless you have 100 million gil to burn, or a 7 leaf clover, you just won't make it.

This is the golden rule to high level crafting that I tell all of the new crafters in my FC:

"The law of large numbers will always be stronger than the laws of RNG."

What this means, is that if you craft enough of them, no matter good or bad luck, you will always come out with approximately the number of successes listed by the percentage. Therefore, if you find a reliable rotation that will always give you a 45% chance, you can usually figure on needing ~50 times worth in mats to receive 20 successes.
for my lucis tools, I just built up enough resources (minus the ones you get back for NQ) for the law of large numbers to work, and it was successful.

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Originally Posted by GenJoe

Yeah crafting in this game sucks

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Maybe you don't like it because you don't think the RNG makes sense, but saying "it sucks" makes me believe any and all of your opinions are utterly biased complaints about things you could control if you put effort into them but choose to blame the devs.

Edit: Just to clarify, I disagree with your statement because the crafting in this game is so well done and so complete that such a statement nullifies any validity of your opinions; the RNG is needed otherwise crafting would be a snooze fest and too boring for most people to even consider doing it, take away the RNG and you take away the excitement and the skill of crafting, take away the RNG and all you get is a bunch of macro-filled, gear-based, no brained crafting, just like 80% of the MMOs out there, if that's what you want then crafting ain't for you

If you want to find rotations for these, you'll need to look back a few months in the forums. These recipes came out in January, and most of the crafters that know what they are doing had them all done by early February, and there's no reason to make them again.

It's not strictly RNG as an excellent will always be followed by a poor just as a good will always be followed by a normal. Get your FC to purchase in control II and eat from the hand to raise both control and craft by 10, most 40 durability items may work better with HQ dagger soup rather than HQ Bouillabaise

There is no 100% reliable method for crafting HQ of these or, for that matter, ANY synth above 2-star - but that doesn't mean its a crapshoot. SE has provided a wealth of tools to reduce the uncertainty caused by RNG if you know how to use them, and even gave us a way to salvage our losses if it's clear we just can't overcome it (albiet one which, itself, has an element of chance). Once you learn how to manage your skills, failure to get HQ will become a rare thing. A crafting system where you can plug in XYZ actions and get HQ 100% of the time would be boring and stupid - I'm glad for a system that actually makes you think while you craft.

If you think the RNG in this crafting system is retarded, let me assure you it can be much worse. The crafting system in FFXI allowed NO control of the synth. You plug in the ingredients, press synth, and pray. Even a level 110 crafter still had a chance to fail a level 1 synth and lose all the ingredients, and there was absolutely nothing you could do about it. As for HQ, the BEST you could manage was a 50/50 shot at HQ, and that was only possible if you were more than 50 levels above the level of the synth. For items near the 110 cap, you had somewhere around a 1% chance of HQ, and again, there was nothing you could do about it. Add to that the ridiculous skill-up system required to gain levels in a craft... yeah, if you think FFXIV's system is bad, FFXI would BREAK you.

Just like tocsin said, it's all about throwing money at it until you make it.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...on#post2856273

Used this crafted half asleep so macroing was the safest... around 3/5 HQ with that in my full melded AF gear... was able to make me artisans for 2nd set there i hit 3/4 HQ i think even.

I appreciate the replies. However, while I know RNG is an aspect of crafting (its in every single part of this game as a whole), but making something entirely dependant on RNG is obscene, with how bad RNG is. To put it this way, the last time I rolled a 99 for ANYTHING in this game was five months ago. The fail rate on these camlets runs at 99.999999999% for me. Once again, I have ONLY HQ'd 7 so far, and that was ENTIRELY because of RNG. The ones I get to the 70's and 80's, even a few 90's to HQ? All failed. Every. Single. One.

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Originally Posted by moudoka

The fail rate on these camlets runs at 99.999999999% for me. Once again, I have ONLY HQ'd 7 so far (snip)

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unless you have made 7 billion of them, your success rate is MUCH higher than .000000000001%. The idea behind these is to make them as best as possible, and then hope for the best and get the materials back if you fail. the average cost to make each one is under 20k per, for the loseable mats. It could be a LOT worse. Even if you use just a macro, and get 40% on each try, EVENTUALLY ou will get 20 HQ, and have a lucis tool.

For the record, it took me 67 tries to get 20 HQ for my carpenter lucis. in that time, I spent under a mil. dont worry, you will get it eventually. Think of it like a relic weapon, like it pretty much is. You need to o a bunch of useless stuff and fail a bunch of times, to get it, but its worth it at the end.

Sure feels that way. I've crafted over a hundred of these camlets, and have only 100% ONE of them to HQ. Rest of the time it's been RNG whether it does or not. It's a level of frustration that paralleled my Zodiac dungeons. The RNG system is wholly broken, and set up for failure, unless you're a lucky one. That alone is extremely disappointing.

Okay.. I'll stop yanking your chains..
OP, the only reason I can see for your failures on hq'ing lucis tokens is your crafting rotation. I just uploaded a video, 3 crafts of armorer lucis tokens with 451 craftsmanship and 422 control.

Look it over, then see what you and I are doing differently, if I had to guess you're probably using Waste Not and missing the Tricks of the Trade procs so you're CP starved, and it sounds like you may not even be baiting for good condition on byregots..

If after watching the video, you still think it's all RNG, you're entitled to your opinion, I admit it's such a small sample (still took me an hour to upload a 6 minute clip) that it may appear to be just my good luck, but I assure you, I usually average 70%+ on lucis tokens and it's not all RNG. I've done 6 lucis tools so far (120 hq) so I have the data..

Anyway, hope you can see what we do differently and make use of it.

Vid:
https://vid.me/4I9c

Kori, your stats are better than what mine were, at least in terms of Craftmanship and Control. You didn't list your CP, which is probably the most important stat, though (I had 349, raised to 382 with HQ Bouillabiase). If you had similar levels of CP, and if you were using crafting rotations similar to mine, your low success rate is statistically improbable. You should not expect similar results in the future. You simply had a streak of bad luck.

If you're not using a rotation similar to mine, here's a couple rules that worked for me and that may help you out:

- Do pretty much anything you can to get more CP. CP is love. CP is life. Eat CP food. Meld CP materia. Pounce on any Tricks of the Trade opportunity you see, even if Steady Hand II is up. You waste a turn of Steady Hand II, but the CP returns are almost enough to pay for a whole new Steady Hand. Think of it this way: If Steady Hand II costs 25 CP, then each step of Steady Hand costs 5 CP. Tricks of the Trade returns 20 CP. Trading 5 CP for 20 CP is a good deal! Also, Comfort Zone. Use it at the start for certain, and there's a pretty good chance you'll be able to use it a second time, as well. If you think the synth is going to take you 10 more steps, DO IT. As with Tricks, using this during Steady Hand II is still a valid option, with a net gain of 11 CP, but you have a little more flexibility with Comfort Zone if you prefer to wait for Steady Hand to be down.

- Never use Waste Not or Waste Not II. You want to pounce on Tricks of the Trade, but the CP tradeoff against Waste Not (costs 14 CP per turn) and Waste Not II (12.25 CP per turn) becomes negligable if you're losing turns of Steady Hand II AND Waste Not every time you use it. Waste Not may be more efficient on the surface than Manipulation or Master's Mend, but when you factor in the Tricks you have to skip, they tend to fall short.

- Anything goes, as long as you keep 56 CP in reserve (remember to factor in any remaining tics of Comfort Zone!), along with enough Durability to use Byregot's Blessing and finish the synth with Careful Synthesis II. 56 CP is the magic number; it is the cost of Great Strides and Byregot's Blessing. Continue using your CP to maintain Steady Hand, use Touches, and recover Durability until anything further will take you below this number. But what about Steady Hand? Shouldn't you reserve CP for that as well, to make sure BB is 100% successful?

- Don't be afraid to use Byergot's Blessing without Steady Hand for Lucis trade-ins. It may fail - but it probably won't. It has a 90% success rate, which is pretty darned reliable. It's great if you happen to line things up so that Steady Hand is up once you reach Byergot's time, but if it doesn't happen, don't sweat it. It's simply not worth saving 22-25 CP that could be used elsewhere. That 90% WILL fail sometimes - but even when it does you may still get lucky. Even if you don't you can just trade in the NQ to get your mats back. But even more startling:

- Don't be afraid to use Hasty Touch without Steady Hand. If you're low on CP, but still have durability left, go ahead and mash out a few Hasties. Only a 50/50 shot at success, but what else are you going to do with that durability? Your synth should always end with your final Synthesis step taking you to 0 Durability. If you have leftover durability, then you wasted some opportunities for Touches. Some people are REALLY sensitive about that horrible "failed step" sound. Don't be - failures are going to happen. Just roll with them.

- Ignore Excellents. Don't spend the CP to use Basic Touch - it's not worth it. You may quadruple the amount of quality from that one touch, but Touches are very weak on their own, and quadrupling them still isn't great. Their purpose is to pump up your Inner Quiet. Don't think of them as anything beyond that. If an Excellent pops up, use a Hasty Touch, just like you would on any other condition. Similarly, use Hasty Touch on Poor conditions, don't try to skip them by dropping a new Steady Hand early, or anything like that.

When I synthed my Lucis items, I'd always start with Comfort Zone and Steady Hand. I'd then Rapid Synthesis until I got one success (usually happened on the first try), and then Hasty Touch until 20 Durability. Then, Manipulation, Hasty til 20, Manipulation, Hasty til 20, and so on, until I was down to 56 CP with 30 Durability left. During all of this, whenever a Good popped, I'd use Tricks of the Trade. If Comfort Zone wore and I felt like I had at least ten steps left in the synth (generally the case if I was under 5 stacks of IQ), I'd pop a new one.

I was generally able to recycle enough CP to use 12-13 Hasty Touches in this fashion, which would typically leave me with 9 to 11 stacks of Inner Quiet at that point - but even if I wasn't I'd continue as if I was. (Less than 9 stacks? An Excellent can still save the day if you're lucky! Which I was - exactly ONE time out of all the trade-ins for eight Lucis tools. But hey, that's better than nothing, and even when it didn't save the day I'd still occasionally succeed on a 15%-30% quality.) Next, I'd pop BB, and try to hold out for a Good or Excellent proc. If I had the CP, I'd use things like Innovation or Observation, to hold out, and if I didn't I'd use one of my two remaining Careful Synthesis steps. If I got a Good or Excellent, great - I'd generally be at 80%-100% quality, depending on IQ stacks. If not, I could usually still count on 45%-80% quality, still not bad at all.

In spite of what people may tell you. 80% success rate is not a "lie". While you might come to the forum and find pages of people ranting about how they failed eleventy-six synths at 80% success, for every one that does there's plenty of people who do just fine and don't bother to post to the forums (because - why would you? Everything is normal!).

I actually used a combination of Waste Not and Manipulation for all of mine. 5/8 Lucis tools I had approx 60-70%% HQ rate, 2 were closer to 45% and the final was around 30%, this one annoyed the hell out of me with 11 failed attempts at 52% + HQ chance (2 failed at 84% and 2 above 90% chance), but then, as annoying as that was, I did have several succeed with a 20% chance. There are ways to mitigate RNG, and sometimes, you're just very unlucky and better off stopping for a few hours.

With food, my CP is 385ish, with the Boubalaise. I don't use the waste nots either. Thank RNGesus, I did finally manage to obtain the Lucis tool. But my fail rates are astronomical. Other crafters in my FC can't believe the fail rates I achieve, as they've sat there and watched it happen. 80% success rate might as well be 20%, 90% is roughly 30. RNG devastates my crafting on a continuous basis, and really kills me in duties too. I can't say I understand why, but when it takes the "average" crafter x amount of tries to obtain an item, mine is at least double, if not triple. Even if our stats are identical, and the rotations are identical. I've wondered if RNG is severely flawed for my game, because I've seen others pull things off I can't hope to achieve. The camlets were a focal point, as they were proving my hatred of RNG is solid.

Once again, I thank everyone for their responses, I've read them all, and will continue to craft, despite RNG hating me with a passion.

And then the masterbook 2 thugs will come and kick you while ur down. Prepare for total bs fest!

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Originally Posted by Yumi_umi

And then the masterbook 2 thugs will come and kick you while ur down. Prepare for total bs fest!

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Well, the lucis tools should make those master book 2 turn-ins considerably easier. You'll want to boost craftsmanship to around 500 though.

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Originally Posted by Yumi_umi

And then the masterbook 2 thugs will come and kick you while ur down. Prepare for total bs fest!

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Not really, it's pretty much in the same vein..
If you pull an average of 70% on lucis tokens, you'll be pulling an average of ~40% with 11 stack Good Byregot's landing you above 80% iirc..
But the thing with masterbook tokens is, you only need 3 hq out of a total of 8 (5nq for supra) so you really don't need that high of a % for it. Barring any horrible bad luck, worst I've lost was 5 nq on Weaver tokens, I did 4 without losing a single one and the other 3 I lost one or two attempts.. It's really not as bad as people make it out to be.

What it is, is that it's a very sudden change going from being able to hq 100% to now having a little less control over your fate, but you still have a lot of control over them.

It's a lot easier if a lucis tool is used, which the OP now has. I've done some tests using my WVR lucis (501 craftsmanship and 436 control using both fc buffs).

Progress can be completed in 5 steps using 2xPbP, 2xRS, and 1 CS2, allowing for one extra touch attempt.

Most importantly, however, the tokens can be easily HQed without ever landing Byregot's on a good. During my test, I came up with 74% at IQ11 (10 successful touches only, no touches on any excellents or goods) with a gs, inn, and ingen2 buffed byregot's landing on normal. According to the simulator, I'd get 65% if I buffed byregot's with GS+Innovation, and only 33% with great strides alone. Buffing byregot's with both innovation and ingenuity 2 might be difficult, but innovation alone is almost always achievable.

In order to get 3 HQs, all you have to do is get IQ11 and buff Byregot's with GS+innovation for a guaranteed minimum of 65%. Then do that a few more times.

I actually got my 2nd master book far easier than I did my Lucis tool. In far less time too. The intricate silver brocade was pretty daunting, but you had more to work with, at least that's kinda how I looked at it.

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Originally Posted by moudoka

I actually got my 2nd master book far easier than I did my Lucis tool. In far less time too. The intricate silver brocade was pretty daunting, but you had more to work with, at least that's kinda how I looked at it.

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Maybe all u need during ur hq camlets were some faith and trust in ur rotation lol
But thts good to hear cuz them masterbooks can get expensive if u keep blowing em up or nqing them q_q

It also helps to have enough gil around that you wouldn't care about losing a bit of money.. It's not like the 4 star recipes will be a great money maker for ya, just checking my retainer today, I sold 400 hq horn glues overnight (admittedly, that doesn't happen everyday) Since about a month ago, I've stopped selling any end-tier items on MB, there's just too many people there and I really don't want to babysit my retainers anymore.. So I just play middle man now, more time spent crafting, but less time spent checking prices.

I'd just suggest you build up a bankroll, it gives you such a peace of mind when you're not so worried about losing some gil and that in turn, makes crafting that much easier.

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Originally Posted by moudoka

445 craftsmanship and 398 control. It's 100% rng based, thus impossible to reliably craft worth a shit. I'm so sick of RNG in this game, it's infuritating to every single level of my being.

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No it isn't 100% RNG based.

The better your stats the less reliance you have on RNG.

On GSM, my best equipped class, I have 447 craftsmanship, 416 control, 349 CPs. Supra, 1 meld on artisan's offhand, all the rest fully melded BiS.

Blow up matera, up them stats, things will improve.

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Originally Posted by moudoka

Sure feels that way. I've crafted over a hundred of these camlets, and have only 100% ONE of them to HQ. Rest of the time it's been RNG whether it does or not. It's a level of frustration that paralleled my Zodiac dungeons. The RNG system is wholly broken, and set up for failure, unless you're a lucky one. That alone is extremely disappointing.

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You dont need 100% to HQ. 50% or higher is a good ratio for something that you can basically make endlessly. The most expensive material is returned to you as you turn in the NQ item to the npc, after all; making it fairly cheap to produce the items needed.

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Originally Posted by GenJoe

Not really, it's pretty much in the same vein..
If you pull an average of 70% on lucis tokens, you'll be pulling an average of ~40% with 11 stack Good Byregot's landing you above 80% iirc..

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The two dont compare well. Master II tokens are both far harder to HQ and a lot more expensive to craft.

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Originally Posted by MN_14

Most importantly, however, the tokens can be easily HQed without ever landing ~~~~According to the simulator, I'd get 65% if I buffed byregot's with GS+Innovation, and only 33% with great strides alone. ~~

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Simulators assume hasty touch and rapid synth have a 100% chance of success. In reality your overall chances will be lower due to those abilities failing.

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Originally Posted by Aeyis

Simulators assume hasty touch and rapid synth have a 100% chance of success. In reality your overall chances will be lower due to those abilities failing.

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I'm only stating that as long as you can get IQ11 and buff byregot's with gs and innovation, you'll have a good shot at an HQ even if landing byregot's on normal. The numbers I've posted refer to the final HQ% you get, not how often you'll HQ those items. Yes, RS and HT will fail, but with these stats, the only major difference between crafting a 4* item from zero quality and the master book ii tokens is that you'll require 2x PBP, which costs an extra 15 CP. It isn't difficult to routinely achieve IQ11 on a 4* item from zero quality, so you should be able to achieve that on those tokens fairly frequently.

What GenJoe said.

If you are doing your master book with your Artisan tool, you could technically choose to finish synths @ 38% for the tokens. 8 synths with 38% HQ chance, odds are you'd wind up with 3 HQ (insert bad RNG comments and anecdotes here).

If you are still in crafting progression, it makes zero sense to do your lucis before the master II books. If only because you are losing out on the ability to absorb 5 NQs from "failures" while trying to get yoru HQs. Maybe the lucis will buy you one less progress step (maybe?), but the extra control? Not really going to help all that much for this. The extra control doesn't increase Hasty Touch success chance. And that's usually what it all boils down to. The quality increase per hit would help, but 10 IQ stacks with a lucis wouldn't be better than 11 IQ stacks without.

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Originally Posted by dspguy

If you are still in crafting progression, it makes zero sense to do your lucis before the master II books. If only because you are losing out on the ability to absorb 5 NQs from "failures" while trying to get yoru HQs. Maybe the lucis will buy you one less progress step (maybe?), but the extra control? Not really going to help all that much for this. The extra control doesn't increase Hasty Touch success chance.

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Yep, this is true. I'd personally recommend getting those master books before the supra.

The control boost from the lucis isn't enough to make 4* crafting significantly easier. However, when it comes to the master book tokens, it'll turn those 30-40% HQ chances into 60-65% instead. It seems that the difference between 33% and 65% is only 400 quality. Judging from the numbers I've seen, I think that the lucis tools may have been designed with this in mind. It's a nerf for the master book tokens, not 4*.

Yeah once you get some good rotation strats down it doesn't take long at all.

9 days into patch I had all eight DoH Lucis and all three DoL Lucis. And some people even beat my pace, because they were crazy rich and bought their seals to get fast moonstones, heh.

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Originally Posted by Duuude007

Yeah once you get some good rotation strats down it doesn't take long at all.

9 days into patch I had all eight DoH Lucis and all three DoL Lucis. And some people even beat my pace, because they were crazy rich and bought their seals to get fast moonstones, heh.

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I'm excited to see what kind of craziness we'll encounter once 3.0 hits.. Too bad I can't participate in the mad rush :( But it'll still be fun to see MB get some life
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Originally Posted by MN_14

The numbers I've posted refer to the final HQ% you get

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And thats where your % chances on abilities comes in. The final HQ % listed assumes all abilities will succeed. Whether or not youll achieve 11 stacks is entirely dependant on your luck with ToT and rapid/hasty hits. It cant be considered easy to achieve, since you cant influence those effects.

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Originally Posted by Aeyis

And thats where your % chances on abilities comes in. The final HQ % listed assumes all abilities will succeed. Whether or not youll achieve 11 stacks is entirely dependant on your luck with ToT and rapid/hasty hits. It cant be considered easy to achieve, since you cant influence those effects.

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What I'm trying to say is that if you can reduce progress to 5 steps, the process of getting IQ11 is almost the same as a 4* item starting from 0 quality except that it costs 15 CP more. Getting IQ11 on 4* items is usually pretty easy using 1 PBP or even 2 PBP. In theory, you should be able to achieve that with the master book ii tokens almost as easily. When I craft 4* items, the most common IQ stack result that I get is IQ11.

Not needing to bait for a good to get 60%+ makes things even easier.

You know what's funny?

If you have a lucis tool and are 4 star ready when you make these items, a bare minimum 11 stacks (10 HT success) with a Normal Byregots finisher will still give you over 40%.

When you consider that, it's really not all that difficult.

People complain of the difficulty because they have trouble getting 11 IQ stacks.. I understand sometimes it's just damn impossible to build up 11 IQ stacks with the RNGesus throwing curve balls at you, but most of the time, 11 stacks is quite doable, some people just have never had to build up that many IQ stacks.. People are surprised to learn that most of my crafts end at ~35 steps and some even go up to almost 50 steps... So the approach I use these days when people ask me a question about crafting is I ask them how many steps their craft usually ends in.. If it's anything under 30 steps, I know what the problem is.