[dev1134] Combine all instead of spliting?!

I can see that with the new guildleve system coming in 1.19, a person can actually take a break from the game and not lose on the amount of guildleves they can do, which is a very good thing. Granted it may take them froever to do all their leves, especially after taking a long break.

However, I remember the general peoples wanting fieldcraft leves split off from the regional leves section like local leves currently are. But instead, local leves will be combined into the leve total. I for one am totally against this combination. Fieldcraft (Gathering), Battle, and Local(Crafting) leves should have all had their own categories a long time ago. It was brought up time and time again that Fieldcraft shouldn't be in the same category as battlecraft. What is with this change?

Also, the total number of leves doable in a 36 hour period from the adventurers guild will be reduced from 16 to 12. What about the people that dont take a break from the game ever. Those people will have less to do per day than the people that take breaks. People wanted more to do per day, not less. One could say this would be good for those who only do one type of guildleve per reset, but where do you find 12 gathering leve of the same type? there are only 6 of each rank for each class. And unless there are plans to add a ton of new gather and local leves for each rank, this isn't going to do any good.

I also know there are plans to add companies guildleves as well, but is there any need to reduce the amount of adventure leves doable, and/or to combine locals into the total count? I don't think so.

There were a lot of long words in the dev post so it didn't make a whole lot of sense to me XD

However I do agree with Reika, it's nice that we can pick up leve's more often, but it's still a reduction in how many we can do, and I personally was hoping for an increase, or for the reset time to be reduced to 24 hours instead of the current 36, as I tend to do all my leve's in one day then the next day I have nothing to do.

Seperating leves efficiently would make better sense, many of us like to do battle, gathering and crafting all on one character, and with these new restrictions it's going to be incredibly tough/incredibly confusing as to which leves to accept, because choosing one set of leves is only going to slow down a different aspect of your character (taking crafting leve means no SP for your battle class for the next 12 hours unless you want to kill dodos, etc.)

Now if we could do 4 of each per every 12 hours (4 battle, 4 crafting, 4 gathering) that'd be much better, especially since with the addition of riding chocobos running from one city to another will be more enjoyable and less of a chore.

I too like the reduction in the leve cycle time, but I think 4 leves is too little. I think the 4 of each type per cycle is better.

Having only 4 leves combined every 12 hours is pretty silly. The accrual aspect of this new system is fine for players that take long breaks, but for those of us with multiple jobs, we need better accessibility and organization. Also, are the "allowances" being accrued, or are the leves themselves being accrued? In other words, when a new allowance is issued after twelve hours, would I need to log in and accept new leves to add to my journal? Or if I am out of the game long enough for three resets, would I then be entitled to pick-up 12 leves upon entering the game?

The simplistic leves currently available would not take 12 hours to complete. Therefore, even the most dedicated players are spending time doing nothing! This is one of the biggest complaints of the game currently--lack of action and engaging options.

I completely agree with some of the other posters that we need to split-out regional, factional, local, and now even Grand Companies or Guildleves. Combining everything is a horrible idea and a definite step backwards for this game. The current system would even be better than this. "Local" leves should also be renamed to "Crafting" or "Disciple of Hand" Leves. Please do more to reduce the vague categories. Just stick to something basic, but strong like: Storyline, Battlecraft, Fieldcraft, Factional, Crafting, etc.

As an aside, my personal opinion is that the current mode of display for leves is a bit lacking in terms of information and usefulness. In the journal, I would like to see additional columns of data such as: location (Limsa Lominsa, Gridania, etc), job type (MIN,ARM,etc for Disciple of Hand/Land jobs), and even a quick link for the related map location. I don't think this would add too much clutter, and surely this information can be pulled rather easily upon demand. It is a nuisance to be required to open each leve to see where the leve is, and get other basic data. Streamlining this data would help a lot and reduce the need to dig around in menus or even use a piece of scrap paper.

All in all, this change is not progressive for the game overall. Please spend more time creating engaging leve quests that will actually make the player feel as if he or she is a part of something--as if the game and leves are building up to something bigger. Everything seems so flat nowadays: go here, kill/make this, get gil/XP. Repeat 4,000,000 times to gain a rank of 40. This new development for patch 1.19 exposes the assumption that Square Enix has not spent time developing more leves or content. I see this as a means to further slow-down each player.

Engage! Entertain! Bring us into the game, and make us reluctant to leave! We want to be a part of FFXIV, but there's very little meat in this soup at the moment. Gaining ranks through performance of interesting quests would be so much more enjoyable than GRINDING! This game is all about grinding, and then, oh yeah!, I'll do a few quests...and then back to grinding. The players in this game are experienced RPG'ers and we are still playing this game because we love what it could become and have such high hopes for this evolving online world. Wouldn't you guys actually like to start charging for this game? And be able to rework a marketing campaign to increase sales based on solid gameplay, storyline, user interface, and other key ingredients? I can't recommend this game to many friends because when I'm asked what I do in the game, my response is usually, "Well, I grinded for experience points over a 5 hour period. Since I'm past rank 25 I may not even increase rank in that period either. I guess I will need to start grinding for 7 hours every time I play." Not very cool.

Really...this is where you want to take this game? I honestly don't know who's coming up with some of the ideas over there but I have to say it feels like a string of misses are being thrown your end! Why on earth would it be a good thing to reduce ALL of the leves to 4!? It's madness. I was just thinking - hey you know what we could do with, more leves and then you go and do this? :/ Really it feels like you're blatently trying to slow people down so they don't acheive rank 50 and shoot off your game before you have time to expand. But! You are taking away a lot of the enjoyment of everyone by constantly handicapping us :( Now people will get bored faster and end up logging off more - how do you think that's going to improve the constantly growing depopulation of servers? Bad move s.e bad move indeed!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LittleLala

Really...this is where you want to take this game? I honestly don't know who's coming up with some of the ideas over there but I have to say it feels like a string of misses are being thrown your end! Why on earth would it be a good thing to reduce ALL of the leves to 4!? It's madness. I was just thinking - hey you know what we could do with, more leves and then you go and do this? :/ Really it feels like you're blatently trying to slow people down so they don't acheive rank 50 and shoot off your game before you have time to expand. But! You are taking away a lot of the enjoyment of everyone by constantly handicapping us :( Now people will get bored faster and end up logging off more - how do you think that's going to improve the constantly growing depopulation of servers? Bad move s.e bad move indeed!

---

I think SE should also keep in mind that we are voicing the concerns of many many players--this is not just a handful of us speaking-out about this issue. Many other players in my linkshell have the same complaints about the current system. Most players I chat with have echoed your sentiments exactly: we need more leve content and better availability of quests. I generally do not post on the forums because I have gained a bit of optimism due to the pace of updates and upcoming fixes/additions in the game. This, however, is a handicap to the very backbone of the game.

I think you guys are seeing this from the wrong point of view. All these changes are not to fix issues now, but in the long term of the game.

Leves are no longer the main theme of the game. By the time they start charging for the game enough content should be there for anyone who starts to almost have no time at all to do leves.

For the current players, sure, its not enough if they are playing constantly, but really nothing in the game right now is enough. Try and think about when the game is ready for fees if you really will complain about four leves every twelve hours. Leves are no longer for the hardcore, but specifically for the casual player who will log in after a days work and most surely just log in to the leves, maybe two or three before continuing on to do events or any other type of content.

All changes done to the game are thinking ahead when other content will be more important than leves and you will be logging in today to do raids and quests, tomorrow to do primal battles and large scale PVE and days after tomorrow, sure lets do leves, wow, you now have like 24 leves to do ! :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Holland

I think you guys are seeing this from the wrong point of view. All these changes are not to fix issues now, but in the long term of the game.

Leves are no longer the main theme of the game. By the time they start charging for the game enough content should be there for anyone who starts to almost have no time at all to do leves.

For the current players, sure, its not enough if they are playing constantly, but really nothing in the game right now is enough. Try and think about when the game is ready for fees if you really will complain about four leves every twelve hours. Leves are no longer for the hardcore, but specifically for the casual player who will log in after a days work and most surely just log in to the leves, maybe two or three before continuing on to do events or any other type of content.

All changes done to the game are thinking ahead when other content will be more important than leves and you will be logging in today to do raids and quests, tomorrow to do primal battles and large scale PVE and days after tomorrow, sure lets do leves, wow, you now have like 24 leves to do ! :D

---

Actually, thanks for the positive spin on this. I think the leve system could (and possibly "should") be more robust, but you do make a good point about considering the additional content to come--especially for those primarily geared towards DoW or DoM. Disciples of Land and Hand, however, seem to need to rely too much on grinding at the moment.

This may be a far-reaching implementation, but the selfish side of me wants more content. Now! :)

Thanks for your post. Is there anyone that can tie this into something long-term from other news releases? I do trust this game will mature nicely in time.

ok if you get 4 every 12hours then wait 24hours like we been doing and you have 8 o.o or wait more days and you have more. I don't see a issue with this at all or there something i'm missing here?

But i agree DOL should not be with DOW leves.

Just remember that this patch is also going to be making enemy grinding and dungeon runs a lot more rewarding, so you will have less leves to do but you will also have those avenues for getting XP if you have more time on your hands and can play more often. Being able to focus solely on 1 type of leve is a welcome trade off to being able to do more of them but split up, IMO.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Estellios

Just remember that this patch is also going to be making enemy grinding and dungeon runs a lot more rewarding, so you will have less leves to do but you will also have those avenues for getting XP if you have more time on your hands and can play more often. Being able to focus solely on 1 type of leve is a welcome trade off to being able to do more of them but split up, IMO.

---

This doesn't help the casual player however. Casuals don't have time to go grind for hours, hence why reducing the number of leves doable in the 36hr timeframe isnt a good idea. They could leve it at 16 and everyone will be happy. I mean, wouldn't everyone like it better if you could do 16 leves however you like? Still focus on one if you like, leve total per 36h stays 16.


I also did mention that there will be company guildleves added in 1.19 as well. But I'm not trying to be over-optimistic this time, since they haven't talked about them or how many we will be able to do or if it will be combined into the 4 per 12hr limit. However if company guildleves add to the amount you can do over 12 (and at least up to 16) then it will be all good, sorta.

It still would be better if they stop trying to "Phase stuff out" and just add more ways to rank up. It's a waste of time to do all this work to the leve system, when all they needed to do was simply make it save the leves you didn't get to take or do, without reducing the total doable to 12.

And really, who is going to log on every 12 hours to do 4 leves then log off? This change is more likely to keep people who just do leves anyways away til like the weekend. Servers will seem very empty to the hardcore player who jumps on to grind out everything.

In all, the guildleve system and the amount of guildleves doable now is fine as it is for the people who just do those. The saving guildleves skipped is a welcome change, but the reduction of total doable is not welcome.

It's a decent tradeoff for the freedom and being able to focus all your leves in 1 class, which is perfect for low-time players,the intended audience of the system and the revamps.

Since you can solo grind or grind with a small party it's not as large of a time sink, either, especially since they intend for you to level off of enemies the same level/around your level so it would be easier to find appropriate enemies around the aetheryte areas. If they make it rewarding enough the people that have time to play will play even when they have no leves, I know I will.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Estellios

It's a decent tradeoff for the freedom and being able to focus all your leves in 1 class, which is perfect for low-time players,the intended audience of the system and the revamps.

Since you can solo grind or grind with a small party it's not as large of a time sink, either, especially since they intend for you to level off of enemies the same level/around your level so it would be easier to find appropriate enemies around the aetheryte areas. If they make it rewarding enough the people that have time to play will play even when they have no leves, I know I will.

---

As said, it is only a decent tradeoff for some. People who do nothing but leves and/or people who did all 8 regional and 8 local will find themselves with less to do. 16 leves every 36 hrs was just fine for low-time players as well. Unless they plan to increase sp gains of all class types, Overall sp for those people will drop. Hopefull the 'Leve History and evaluation' bonus thingy they have planned will involve more than just a mark/gil reward increase if they still go through with the reduction.

I agree. While i am the one who suggested having them all together (because some don't like crafting...some don't like fieldcraft and some don't want to battle...so it should be up to the player to decide where to spend their "leve tags" on...if he wanted 16 local or 16 fieldcraft instead of being forced to go 8-8 it should be possible), i never asked a leve reduction at all. IMO this reduction is a very bad idea...in a try to hit RMTs they once again hit the real players and the change will actually have no effect on RMTs since they can just make more mules if they have less leves.

The original suggestion asked 1 leve tag every 2hrs (6 tags every 12 hrs). They added 1 leve tag every 3hrs (4 tags every 12 hrs). But i do would expect they to increase the amount of tags we can receive once they add the company leves...all based onfeedback.

We originally had the 16 leves/48hrs...just like we will have in 1.19...which means that as people keep tossing feedback they might just reduce it again.

although you can only do 4 every 12, i still like the new system. I only did leves like twice a week as it was and i only did regional leves. So when you count in the number of leves ive missed, i will actually be a ble to do more now. the only people who wont like this change are people who actually have the time to do all 16 local and regional leves every reset.

Yep, but this is for those who actually missed leves...players like me, in other hand, who never miss leves (all times i missed a leve were because i had problem with my PC and wasn't able to play at all) does will fell like they're getting ripped off.

I can say it...i myself am already feeling like i'll be robbed in many aspects of 1.19...which includes the reduction on the amount of leves.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lienn

Yep, but this is for those who actually missed leves...players like me, in other hand, who never miss leves (all times i missed a leve were because i had problem with my PC and wasn't able to play at all) does will fell like they're getting ripped off.

I can say it...i myself am already feeling like i'll be robbed in many aspects of 1.19...which includes the reduction on the amount of leves.

---

I really don't understand how you're "missing" leves at all. Now, instead of getting 16 per 36 hours (8 for battle/field and 8 for local) you can now focus what you actually want to do with 12 in 36 hours. Unless you're leveling EVERYTHING at once (in which case you're limited in your battle/field leves) then I can see why you're upset. In reality though, you can still level everything at once, you're just slightly limited in your allocation per 12 hour period. To most people (the kinds of people who don't have the circumstances to play 24/7) this is a great system. It seems like they weighed the needs of the many (casuals/semi-hardcore) in favor and not the needs of the few (people like you who have every single class leveled to 50). I for one am very happy with this new system as I'd like to save all of mine for a day off of work and grind out all battle leves, personally.

Am I the only one who thinks that people who NEVER miss a leve, and who spend ALL DAY playing FF14, really need to find something else to do every now and then?

For f's sake, it's a game, not reality. Take a few days off and then you'll have a hard time doing all the leves you want to do.

I would also state that there's plenty to do besides Leves in the game, just use your imagination a bit. I highly doubt that most who complain about there not being enough leves (where you go and beat stuff up) have properly considered the fun in just going out and beating stuff up on your own...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cycloptichorn

Am I the only one who thinks that people who NEVER miss a leve, and who spend ALL DAY playing FF14, really need to find something else to do every now and then?

For f's sake, it's a game, not reality. Take a few days off and then you'll have a hard time doing all the leves you want to do.

I would also state that there's plenty to do besides Leves in the game, just use your imagination a bit. I highly doubt that most who complain about there not being enough leves (where you go and beat stuff up) have properly considered the fun in just going out and beating stuff up on your own...

---

Thank you. +1

I really support this change. This will greatly enhance your ability to focus your leve acceptance to the classes you currently care about leveling.

Here's what happens to me today -
- I am in Gridania and I go to the desk
- Get 2 Botany leves for Emmy Moss
- Get 3 Battle leves for my Arc at Emmy Moss
- Get 3 Battle leves for Con at Muy Tuy
- Get 3 Carpenter leves (spread all over the map)
- Get 2 Blacksmith leves (spread all over the map)
- Get a couple other misc crafting leves

So when I leave the city - I end up going out to a camp to essentially level like 5 different classes. Sure I could streamline the number of classes a bit, but to do that I have to visit each and every city state to get rank appropriate leves.

I really love the idea, that if all I want to do is go out gathering today. I can just use all my accumulated leves on one single class. Pick up leves availble - go run then, come back get evaluated, pick up more leves from the same class, rinse, repeat. If I want to use my leves to level just once class than I can! Talk about having the ability to level up as a casual player. If you think you'll never rank up to 50...well then just save all your leves for Saturday and spend the day running 56 leves all on the same class. If 50+ leves run on a single class/week doesn't let you rank up, I don't know what will...

At that rate in the r40s...getting a bonus of 4k/leve (more is possible, this is conservative) plus mob sp for say (6k per leve total). I could easily get 56*6k = 336k sp playing one day a week. That would net you like 3 to 4 ranks in a day while in the 40s....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cycloptichorn

Am I the only one who thinks that people who NEVER miss a leve, and who spend ALL DAY playing FF14, really need to find something else to do every now and then?

---

No, I'm sure there are other people who spend their time fretting over how people they've never met are doing things differently. I'm sure it's terribly distressing. But if you're spending time and effort worrying about how much time other people spend playing videogames, then maybe you shouldn't be lecturing other people on the most effective ways to spend their time. On a videogame forum. On the internet.

Quote:

---

For f's sake, it's a game, not reality. Take a few days off and then you'll have a hard time doing all the leves you want to do.

---

Yes, it's just a game. Obviously. But SE should want people to want to play their game 24/7. That should be SE's goal. To give players a reason to log in and spend all their free time running around Eorzea.

So if you're suggesting that SE shouldn't worry about implementing enough content to entertain players who want to play every day, then I sincerely hope SE doesn't follow your advice.

Quote:

---

I would also state that there's plenty to do besides Leves in the game, just use your imagination a bit. I highly doubt that most who complain about there not being enough leves (where you go and beat stuff up) have properly considered the fun in just going out and beating stuff up on your own...

---

Nobody's suggesting that there's nothing else to do besides leves. What's being suggested is that:

a) With fewer leves, it's going to take longer to rank up to 50;

b) Reducing the number of leves is going to reduce the amount of available content.

Yes, we're still free to do other things, like grind or explore or whatever. But my chief complaint about the game since CE release has been a lack of content. Reducing the number of leves reduces the amount of content available.

1.19 will apparently include additional content, which will hopefully offset this loss somewhat. And I understand they're trying to bend the focus of the game away from leves. And I also understand that folks like you and Bigcatman are unlikely to be able to do 16 leves every 36 hours. But I'd respectfully submit that the amount of time you can spend on a game shouldn't be the outer limit for everyone. In fact, it might even be a good thing for everyone -- including you and Bigcatman -- if the game offered enough stuff to do that even hardcore gamers could log on an enjoy it.

I will also add that no one needs to play 24/7 to complete leves every 36 hours. I have no idea where that idea could possibly come from, but we are talking about leves here, not whatever a person may or may not do after leves are complete. It doesn't take that long to do levequests. I still spend a lot of my time sleeping, doing homework, and playing other video games and still do all my levequests. This change may let me spend even more time on other things and dedicate but one day to doing levequests, but that doesn't change the fact that i'll be doing 4 less every 36hrs than I do now. And also said, unless the additional content such as company guildleves (and if it doesn't just combine into the 4 leves every 12 like I'm expecting), or the leve history/evaluation bonus effects SP gains on new leves taken, it will slow down all sp gains from leves for a lot of people.

And really, even if it isn't to do leves, people are probably going to log in for one reason or another. Whether it is to do the new repeatable content they are adding, such as the beastman fortress or caravan escort, or just to chit chat. The only good thing is that you don't have to do leves right away. The bad thing is that 4 less are doable in the same timeframe as now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by VydarrTyr

No, I'm sure there are other people who spend their time fretting over how people they've never met are doing things differently. I'm sure it's terribly distressing. But if you're spending time and effort worrying about how much time other people spend playing videogames, then maybe you shouldn't be lecturing other people on the most effective ways to spend their time. On a videogame forum. On the internet.

---

Oh, I'm sorry. I must have been a little sloppy there.

See, you thought that I was fretting when in fact I was expressing disdain. It takes me almost no time whatsoever, so I don't think there's any reason for you to be concerned as to whether or not it's an effective use of my time.

I don't want our game designed around the needs of those who are addicted to it. It's a profoundly dumb way to design a game, and it doesn't work for the majority of users. The current system of leves isn't effective for most users. The system they are suggesting would be FAR more effective for most users than the current one; the pushback from hyper-addicts to the game deserves pushback from the rest of us who cheer on the changes they are making.

Quote:

---

Yes, it's just a game. Obviously. But SE should want people to want to play their game 24/7. That should be SE's goal. To give players a reason to log in and spend all their free time running around Eorzea.

---

I disagree, and so does SE. You should take a minute next time you log in to actually read the message that pops up when you begin the game; yaknow, the one that SPECIFICALLY WARNS YOU not to play 24/7. That says not to forget your friends, family and work.

Quote:

---

So if you're suggesting that SE shouldn't worry about implementing enough content to entertain players who want to play every day, then I sincerely hope SE doesn't follow your advice.

---

Changing the rate at which Leves accrue has nothing to do with adding content. They aren't adding OR subtracting content by doing this; they are merely changing the way content accrues. And it falls right in line with their stated overall strategy of making Leves less important to the game overall.

Quote:

---

a) With fewer leves, it's going to take longer to rank up to 50;

---

So what? There's nothing to do at 50 that you can't do at a lower rank already.

Quote:

---

b) Reducing the number of leves is going to reduce the amount of available content.

---

They aren't reducing the number of leves, just changing the rate at which they accrue.

Quote:

---

Yes, we're still free to do other things, like grind or explore or whatever. But my chief complaint about the game since CE release has been a lack of content. Reducing the number of leves reduces the amount of content available.

---

No, it doesn't.

Quote:

---

1.19 will apparently include additional content, which will hopefully offset this loss somewhat. And I understand they're trying to bend the focus of the game away from leves. And I also understand that folks like you and Bigcatman are unlikely to be able to do 16 leves every 36 hours.

---

You're incorrect about that, at least for me. There are MANY times in which I could do 16 leves in 36 hours. There are days in which I can do 16 leves in 10 hours. But there are also days that I can't play at all, because of other things going on in my life.

The new system allows for me to store the leves up for when I do have time. I WILL be able to do 16 leves in 10 hours once the new system drops - and what more, those can be ALL combat or ALL crafting or ALL gathering. The proposed system offers significantly more flexibility for all players. Let's not give SE crap just b/c a few people will have their addiction impacted - slightly.

Quote:

---

But I'd respectfully submit that the amount of time you can spend on a game shouldn't be the outer limit for everyone. In fact, it might even be a good thing for everyone -- including you and Bigcatman -- if the game offered enough stuff to do that even hardcore gamers could log on an enjoy it.

---

Changing the rate at which leves accrue doesn't change the level of content available, in the slightest. It only adjusts the rate at which you can do that content. And I would submit that our 'hardcore' players are going to love the change as well, once they get used to it.

Quote:

---

And also said, unless the additional content such as company guildleves (and if it doesn't just combine into the 4 leves every 12 like I'm expecting), or the leve history/evaluation bonus effects SP gains on new leves taken, it will slow down all sp gains from leves for a lot of people.

---

I do believe SE intends for this to be slowed down. They have stated that leves aren't going to be the focus of the game any longer.... now you're seeing what that means.

I would also submit that, subject to testing, EXP bonuses from kill chains and from monster reinforcement add-ons could significantly raise the SP gained from soloing or PT grinding.

If I read this correctly and we can log and store up to 99 leves (even leves of the same name) then this is a good change. I am sick of feeling like I "have" to log in and do leves or I am losing out. This allows me to just log in real quick and log them in my journal if I have something else to do that day and do them on my own time. This gives us room to do more things, less "sorry I cant right now, trying to catch up on leves" which is one of the most common things you hear in this game. Maybe a couple more (6) would have been nice, but overall I approve of this system.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cycloptichorn

Oh, I'm sorry. I must have been a little sloppy there.

See, you thought that I was fretting when in fact I was expressing disdain. It takes me almost no time whatsoever, so I don't think there's any reason for you to be concerned as to whether or not it's an effective use of my time.

---

Oh, well, that definitely changes things. You have expressed disdain for people who waste their time playing videogames by posting a wall of text on an internet forum about a videogame. No, wait. I guess my point still stands.

Quote:

---

I don't want our game designed around the needs of those who are addicted to it. It's a profoundly dumb way to design a game, and it doesn't work for the majority of users. The current system of leves isn't effective for most users. The system they are suggesting would be FAR more effective for most users than the current one; the pushback from hyper-addicts to the game deserves pushback from the rest of us who cheer on the changes they are making.

---

So if I can manage to do 16 leves every 36 hours -- which takes maybe 3 hours -- then I'm a "hyper-addict"? Ok, doctor. I'll be sure and give your medical opinion its due consideration.

And while I appreciate that it's very, very easy -- and probably even comforting -- to just assume that everyone who makes different choices than you is afflicted with a personality disorder, that's a very self-centered view of the world.

Quote:

---

Changing the rate at which Leves accrue has nothing to do with adding content. They aren't adding OR subtracting content by doing this; they are merely changing the way content accrues. And it falls right in line with their stated overall strategy of making Leves less important to the game overall.

---

Well, that's a fancy little bit of wordplay. I like how you called it "changing the rate at which leves accrue" rather than "reducing the rate at which leves accrue." Super tricky, that. Do you work in politics?

Reducing the rate at which leves accrue reduces the amount of stuff that people can do in the game. And that's the point. We want more stuff to do in the game.

SE acknowledges that there's just not much to do in the game right now. They're working on increasing the amount of stuff to do in the game (i.e., "content"). But given the current dearth of content, and the fact that SE is trying to increase the amount of content, it seems counter-productive to reduce the number of available activities.

Quote:

---

So what? There's nothing to do at 50 that you can't do at a lower rank already.

---

As I said, there's a lack of content. Glad we agree on that.

Quote:

---

They aren't reducing the number of leves, just changing the rate at which they accrue.

---

They're reducing the number of available leves. There can be 1,000 potential leves, but if I can only run one per month, then there's not much to do in the game.

Quote:

---

You're incorrect about that, at least for me. There are MANY times in which I could do 16 leves in 36 hours. There are days in which I can do 16 leves in 10 hours. But there are also days that I can't play at all, because of other things going on in my life.

---

So you can't complete 16 leves every 36 hours. In other words, what I said was correct.

Are you just disagreeing with everything I say to be disagreeable?

Quote:

---

The new system allows for me to store the leves up for when I do have time. I WILL be able to do 16 leves in 10 hours once the new system drops - and what more, those can be ALL combat or ALL crafting or ALL gathering. The proposed system offers significantly more flexibility for all players. Let's not give SE crap just b/c a few people will have their addiction impacted - slightly.

---

There you go again. Anyone who plays more than you is "addicted" to the game? When did you become the standard for videogame addiction?

In order for this game to succeed, FFXIV is going to need to appeal to both the casual and hardcore gamers. While you may have disdain for people who play more than a few hours a week, SE needs to appeal to those players, too. And offering more content is only going to help the game by increasing the options available to everyone. Including you.

And it's not like it hurts you if other people play more than you. So I'm honestly surprised that anyone is arguing for their to be less fun stuff to do in the game.

Quote:

---

Changing the rate at which leves accrue doesn't change the level of content available, in the slightest. It only adjusts the rate at which you can do that content.

---

Egad. That's the whole point. "Content" that you can't do is useless.

I only hope they can stack if I don't play for like a week.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by VydarrTyr

Oh, well, that definitely changes things. You have expressed disdain for people who waste their time playing videogames by posting a wall of text on an internet forum about a videogame. No, wait. I guess my point still stands.

---

This is inaccurate. I disdain those who are addicted - people who, as someone stated earlier in this thread, 'never miss a leve.' Obviously, I've put a lot of time into this game as well; what you wrote doesn't reflect the point I was making.

I also would hardly call that a 'wall' of text. It took less than 5 minutes to write. You should see the stuff I really care about...

<Many boring things you wrote snipped out>

Quote:

---

Well, that's a fancy little bit of wordplay. I like how you called it "changing the rate at which leves accrue" rather than "reducing the rate at which leves accrue." Super tricky, that. Do you work in politics?

---

You're actually factually incorrect. The truth is, the new system ALLOWS for the accrual of leves. The old system did not allow for the accrual of leves. You had a set number of leves to do within a set time, and if you don't use them - they disappear. You don't get credit for leves you didn't do. They DIDN'T accrue at all, but instead were available within a certain window. If you logged on at the wrong moments, you could be really screwed by this in terms of the number of leves you can do at any one time.

The new system is infinitely superior, in that you will be able to save leves up. Miss a few days? No problem for your char, when you do log back on, you will have as many leves available as you would have done during all those days! This is a feature, not a bug.

<more non-interesting comments snipped>

Quote:

---

So you can't complete 16 leves every 36 hours. In other words, what I said was correct.

---

Not can't but don't, due to the wide variety of awesome activities in RL that I also participate in. But now, I'll be on the same playing field as those of you who have none of those! Success, SE!

Quote:

---

Are you just disagreeing with everything I say to be disagreeable?

---

No, I disagree with things you say because they are factually wrong, and I don't like that.

Quote:

---

In order for this game to succeed, FFXIV is going to need to appeal to both the casual and hardcore gamers. While you may have disdain for people who play more than a few hours a week, SE needs to appeal to those players, too. And offering more content is only going to help the game by increasing the options available to everyone. Including you.

---

The new leve system DOES increase the options available to everyone. You just don't seem to be able to see that. You'll catch on quick enough once it's in place though; the first time you bang out 20 crafting leves in a day you'll see what I mean.

Quote:

---

Egad. That's the whole point. "Content" that you can't do is useless.

---

You're absolutely correct. 'Content' which expires on an arbitrary time limit is indeed useless. Content which persists, that I can do whenever I want - that's useful.

Besides, since when do people really like leves? Leves suck. It's a convenient way to get SP and a little cash and that's it. Not a substitute for proper and enduring quest lines. The game shouldn't be focused around them and anything that they do to move that focus even farther away is a plus in my book.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cycloptichorn

TYou're actually factually incorrect. The truth is, the new system ALLOWS for the accrual of leves. The old system did not allow for the accrual of leves. You had a set number of leves to do within a set time, and if you don't use them - they disappear. You don't get credit for leves you didn't do. They DIDN'T accrue at all, but instead were available within a certain window.

---

Ok. So you apparently don't know what the word "accrue" means. It means "Be received by someone in regular or increasing amounts over time." If leves don't accrue under the current system, you would get one set, and no new ones. That's obviously not what happens. They do accrue under the current system. What's changing is the rate at which they accrue, and whether you can keep them beyond the 36 hour period.

Quote:

---

The new system is infinitely superior, in that you will be able to save leves up. Miss a few days? No problem for your char, when you do log back on, you will have as many leves available as you would have done during all those days! This is a feature, not a bug.

---

And that's why I'm in favor of the new ticketing system. I'm not arguing against it. I'm arguing against them reducing the rate at which leves accrue.

Quote:

---

Not can't but don't, due to the wide variety of awesome activities in RL that I also participate in.

---

Interesting. I wonder who typed this:

Quote:

---

But there are also days that I can't play at all, because of other things going on in my life.

---

Oh, wait. That's you.

Quote:

---

Not can't but don't, due to the wide variety of awesome activities in RL that I also participate in. But now, I'll be on the same playing field as those of you who have none of those!

---

/sigh. Here's a little tip: Keep the personal insults to a minimum. You lose credibility when you make them, especially when they're this ridiculous. You have no idea how many "awesome" real life activities I'm involved in. And for the record, I'd put the awesomeness of my life up against yours any day of the week.

Quote:

---

You're absolutely correct. 'Content' which expires on an arbitrary time limit is indeed useless. Content which persists, that I can do whenever I want - that's useful.

---

That's not what I said, nor is it what I implied. Again, please don't misrepresent what I said.

Quote:

---

No, I disagree with things you say because they are factually wrong, and I don't like that.

---

So far in this post, you've misrepresented what's involved in the current system, misrepresented what I'm arguing, and misrepresented what you said previously. If you disdain factual inaccuracies, then your self-loathing must be reaching volcanic proportions.

You still haven't given any reason why everyone else should be limited to your playing time. I'm honestly wondering what your answer is. It doesn't make any sense to me. How are you hurt by the fact that some people can play more than you?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Estellios

Just remember that this patch is also going to be making enemy grinding and dungeon runs a lot more rewarding, so you will have less leves to do but you will also have those avenues for getting XP if you have more time on your hands and can play more often. Being able to focus solely on 1 type of leve is a welcome trade off to being able to do more of them but split up, IMO.

---

Yea.. but "grinding" isn't what we want, regardless of the improved rewards. that means instead of doing content that we should have we are doing nothing but repetitious scenario's.

when i first read "turn in the leve, get evaluated, and be handed a new one" on the post i was hoping so much that it was something like a level grade and the evaluation immidiatly led you to a new better or worse leve based on that. like "heres a job you might like, do this:" and then go and do it, come back be evaluated again, rince lather repeat. (yes that would also be a grind by all technical purposes but its not just running around killing a thousand things over and over and over without a seperate purpose besides the original "level up" purpose.)

then i re read everything and as much as it sounded good i read the limit again.. you could only have 4 at once, silly me for thinking i can comprehend something before i had my morning coffee :P. when i went through it again i was sorely dissapointed because the time limits in general should be abolished because some people DO have a LOT of time on their hands, and a grind fest is not something they are looking for to fill that time, if people wanted a grindfest tell them to go to SilkRoad or something silly. yes you encourage people to not spend all day doing something but last time i checked leve's dont take 12 hours to do they take maybe..5-10 minutes per leve depending on the type of leve. 12 hours is a bit much if you look at the time it takes to do them. if i get off work and just want to have 6 hours to myself because all my friends are busy or out and about and cant chill with me or for whatever reason i dont have anything else better to do then yea imma play for 6 hours or something because i feel like it, and in those 6 hours 45 minutes will be leve's and then what? a quest or two will tke up maybe another 30 minutes but then its like oh, theres...nothing to do but kill things (at the level im at anyways, i understand the games not THAT empty of content im just saying i cant xactly go take on much at lvl 11 :P)

the post about all the extra content filling up time may be true but what if i want to take some time to level up my crafting out of the day and really have at it for awhile (lets say im close to a level where i can make a pair of pants or a shirt for someone who wants it) and i do the crafting leve's to help me level up a bit faster instead of doing a bunch of different stuff, now im even more S. o. L than before. back to the word "grind", its not easy to grind crafting classes as people might know, its easy once you can get a lot of stuff to craft but starting out its kind of a neusance and leve's help a LOT, but considering at the levequest level your able to craft at you dont get very many of them to do in the first place, your done within the first 30 minutes of the time doing them and then you have to rely on grinding the crafting and thats only IF you have enough "ingredients" to do so, if not you have to go grind for the items on top of grinding the same enemies FOR those items over and over again, at least with leve's you feel like your accomplishing something and get a small bonus to HELP you move things along.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by VydarrTyr

"
You still haven't given any reason why everyone else should be limited to your playing time. I'm honestly wondering what your answer is. It doesn't make any sense to me. How are you hurt by the fact that some people can play more than you?

---

THANK YOU. i may not agree with everything the post said but this is the key element to everything. SE tries to balance the game by making the people who have more time on their hands WAIT for the people who are too busy to catch up but in doing so your leaving people with boredom and boredom leads to finding something better then the boring thing to do, which means people will leave the game permanently if they find theres nothing better to do, which at the moment means nothing but people wont pay subscriptions for a monthly game if they can only play for an hour or 2 out of the day and then have nothing to do for the rest of that time, that would be an extreme waste of money, im paying 15(including character fee obviously-if just one) dollars a month to play a game for 2 hours a day and then have the OPTION to play longer but not be able to do anything but grind the rest of that time...hmm i could do that, or i could go to City of heroes/villains and do a bunch of missions or rob a bank or do a task force or the millions of other filler missions /quests they have for people to do. but thats not what i want to do thats just an example of a game that at least has some filler if you cant do something in specific. i LIKE ff14 its one of the most beautiful games ive played and i like how the system works in battling and crafting/gathering its nice but i want MORE of it not restrictions on them.

the word there is filler. city of heroes has that consept where its like okay we have stuff for you to do but if you cant QUITE DO IT yet, we have these repeatable quests you can do, "save someone/kidnap someone, defeat this bad guy, go steal this/ prevent this from being stolen" etc etc until you can do what you need to do! here you go. yes they are a little repetitious but at least it gives you something to do that doesnt JUST consist of killing things for no reason, it gives you reason and somethig to do until you can achieve that level to do what you wanted to do. why cant leve's be more like that where yea they are the "go kill this or that" over n over, but at least you get rewarded for doing it and you get the bonus's. and if they didnt have the restrictions on the leves just change the size of the bonus's to balance out. lvl 10 leves can give you 2-5k which is nice but if you can keep doing them over n over again only make them give 1-3k or something to balance out the fact theres no limit.

That goes for crafting too. if you cant increase your craft level its usually because you either dont have enough ingredients or the ingredients you need are not as easy to get as you'd hoped, what do you do to solve that? do a leve that gives you the items so you can at least increase a LITTLE bit. but then when your lets say level 10 in your craft and you check the lvl 10 craft leve options and theres only 2 for the im at, you do the two fo those in like 30 minutes and your done..then what? back to a grind AGAIN. it all leads to grinding enemies wether it be to kill them for W and M classes or to farm the items for crafting.

Even if the leve's have a restriction have more quests for us even if they arnt main storyline i walked around for a long time for the first time by camp drybone and had found that camp up northwest-ish that has that guy with the quest about being attacked in a cave by Dodo's and was like OMG THIS IS A QUEST WOW WHO'DA THUNK IT. if theres more NPC's that do that then YES thats what we want. a random person standing there being like "hey friend can you help me i can give you something for helping me, just go and do this: ---" even just standing around the city or the camps have a few new NPC's that are walking around with a few quests. so far the only two quests in ul'dah that i have seen that are like this are the one that starts in the pugilists guild about the warriors and you talk to like 5 or 6 people, and the one from the place north of drybone with the dodo's. thats it. i know theres one other one in ul'dah just cant remember where i got it. i understand im not far in the game..but to only find 2 or 3 in the first 11 levels of gameplay for me is kinda sad to see:/

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cycloptichorn

Changing the rate at which leves accrue doesn't change the level of content available, in the slightest. It only adjusts the rate at which you can do that content. And I would submit that our 'hardcore' players are going to love the change as well, once they get used to it.

---

anything that takes time to get used to isnt love, its acceptance, like the step mother you never wanted or the cat that scratches you when you go near it instead of sitting on your lap. or the dog that barks a thousand times a minute. whatever the reason, if it takes time to get used to it its not something you can love. everyones argument seems to be on wether people have time to play or not etc etc..well thats their business and the game itself shouldnt have hand in wether or not people have time or not..

the people who know they dont have a lot of time on their hands KNOW that they will take longer to level up or do whatever it is they were going to do. it should be players choice on if they want to sit at home and be no-lifer 24hr gameplayers or not, as sad as that sounds its true. all of these "implimentations" and "changes" they are trying to do are to balance how much people can do in how much amount of time and how effective they will be for that amount of time and all that when they should be more worried about "if this person has two hours to play the game, they should be able to do this this this and this and that" if someone has 5 hours to play the game they should also be able to do this this this and that and oh yea lets have this for them to do as well, the person with only two hours can still do that option but they might have to use those 2 hours to do it or do the other stuff, its their choice either way its there for them when they want it" not "well the guy with 2 hours has 2 hours to do that but the guy with 5 hours on his hands only has 2 hours worth of stuff to do then he/shes gotta sit with a thumb up their bum until they can do the stuff again" the whole argument is solely based on them trying to control how much people do when we should be able to make our own choice on wether or not to waste our time for hours on end of for a few hours a day. "thanks for the Warning SE i will keep it in mind but if i dont feel like doing anything today i would like to sit and enjoy your game for a long time, thank you."

I think you misunderstood how leves are going to work. You get 4 every 12 hours, yes, but those 4 "Slots" will keep building up to a max of 99 so as long as you have free slots you can get more leves. Don't do leves for a week and you will have 56 leves you can do whenever you want however you want.

It will be easier to level a crafting class because the leves will reset when you complete or fail them, not just when the timer runs out, so you can repeatedly get those annoying high ranking crafting leves that there are so few of.

The issue some are having is that we are getting a total of 12 leves every 36 hours as opposed to the 16 we have now. If you do only crafting or only battle/gathering leves, you are progressing much much faster, since any leves of the other type that you never used would essentially be up for grabs for the class you actually want to level. If you split between them you will be progressing a little slower than before.