[dev1134] The single biggest problem facing guildleves

Something major seems to be overlooked here when it comes to guildleves reforms. Battle leves are severely unbalanced. I should not be able to initiate a rank 20 leve on five stars, complete the leve easily and then initiate the next on five stars only to die on the first mob.

The reason this happens is because the rank of the mobs is unbalanced. Some can be as high as 37 while some can be in the high 20s. A rank 37 mob is extremely tough to someone in the low to mid 20s.

There should not be major rank differences in the mobs in each leve. This will be an even bigger issue when the battle system changes so that a mob of your own rank is challenging. A simple system would be as follows:

Rank 20 leve mobs (all 20 leves):
1 star - rank 30 mobs
2 star - rank 32 mobs
3 star - rank 34 mobs
4 star - rank 36 mobs
5 star - rank 38 mobs

Ideally you would up their stars every other rank and when you hit rank 30 you start doing rank 30 leves with the same system. Of course when the battle system changes so that your ideal mob is one of your own rank you'd have to lower the leve mob ranks accordingly but a gap of two per star would still be great.

Consistency is key.

I don't care what the rank of the mobs is decided on but each leve should be consistent. I should know what rank my mobs will be when I start the leve and choose the stars. In fact put the mob rank in brackets next to the stars to help new players who haven't memorised it all too.

I'd also like to see the unbalanced situation of local leves changed. There's way too many rank 1 and rank 5 leves and not enough 40, 45 and 50s. I know this is being changed at some point but it can't come fast enough. Guessing that will have to come after the recipe changes to ease the workload.

agreed, /like
all this does is confuse and frustrate people

I agree with this. It'd be nice if leve-mobs had a set rate of progression based on the difficulty level you choose. It's annoying to have to go run back to the camp to switch difficulty when I had been doing all 3-star leves earlier at medium difficulty only to find a later one is several levels higher than the previous mobs. It'd be less annoying if you could change the difficulty from any location - not just the crystal.

Guildleves need to be more fun and they need to be equally rewarding.

Guildleves are probably the only system SE needed to readdress from the ground up. Funny that combat, crafting, armory system took precedence when those things were features I already liked in their original format.

In general, the monsters starts with the same rank as the leve on 1 star. Only some monsters starts with 5 ranks higher. With every additional star the monsters get 3 ranks higher.

Leve 20:
1 Star = Rank 20/25
2 Star = Rank 23/28
3 Star = Rank 26/31
4 Star = Rank 29/34
5 Star = Rank 32/37

If you are 15 and make a leve with 3 stars (Rank 26 monsters in general) and you see the monsters are not 26 but 31 (like the Pterocs in Camp Tranquil), run back and change the stars to 1 or 2 (and make a notice for the next time)

Personally after 2-3 resets you get a feel for which ones are harder/easier. I was putting some of mine on 2 stars but some defense ones near efts/vultures I would leave at 1 star. It is not difficult just do a few resets with 1 star and take some mental notes. There are only like 8 levees per camp, I think.

Lets not forget mob placement at guildleve areas, I was doing some in the black shroud awhile ago and one leve (cant remember the name) had aggressive mobs right ontop of the leve mobs, so you either need to kill them every spawn and waste time, or try to super tank them but when you have 3 leve mobs and 3 normal mobs attacking you it can get quite rough.

I believe all leves need to be looked at from a balancing point of view and mob placement needs looking at for them, I dont mind having to run past aggressive mobs to get to a leve area because it adds to the danger of the game, but you should not have to waste time clearing the area you have to fight in every repop, or constantly die because you cant tank the 6+ mobs you could have attacking you.

And before people say to pull them further away, it was one where I needed to defend a certain area, and I couldnt pull them away from the normal mob roaming area without freezing the timer.

i agree but you go to understand some mobs are harder then others. a rank 30 rat is much easier then a zombie pikeman. So the monsters also need changing to be of the same diffculty.

^^ that's a good point.

It's all about the tactic
If you know the right tactic for zombies or sceletons, they are not so hard.

It's like with these mosquitos. If you fight 3 of them the same time and use a TP skill, it can get very dangerous for you (they cast their aoe skill if you use a TP attack). But if you fight them without a TP skill, it's easy-going

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Originally Posted by DNO

i agree but you go to understand some mobs are harder then others. a rank 30 rat is much easier then a zombie pikeman. So the monsters also need changing to be of the same diffculty.

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You want the same difficulty for ALL classes?

A GLD can soak up much more damage than a THM... so how do you balance a leve featuring wolves for those two?

If you are asking for all Leves to be equally difficult to all classes, then it would have to be achieved by making all classes more generic and able to handle all circumstances -- and nobody wants that.

No, I like the idea of some Leves being much more difficult for some classes than others. After the class re-balancing, I would like to see Leves become more tailored to specific fighting styles... or at least disciplines.

Also, many of the leves are about tactics... don't use TP moves on bombs, etc..

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Originally Posted by Felis

In general, the monsters starts with the same rank as the leve on 1 star. Only some monsters starts with 5 ranks higher. With every additional star the monsters get 3 ranks higher.

Leve 20:
1 Star = Rank 20/25
2 Star = Rank 23/28
3 Star = Rank 26/31
4 Star = Rank 29/34
5 Star = Rank 31/37

If you are 15 and make a leve with 3 stars (Rank 26 monsters in general) and you see the monsters are not 26 but 31 (like the Pterocs in Camp Tranquil), run back and change the stars to 1 or 2 (and make a notice for the next time)

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That's all good and well but it really shouldn't be like that. You shouldn't have to find out through trial and error and then have to make a note of the hundreds of leves and what rank their mobs are.

What's the point of some leves having mobs 5 ranks higher than the others anyway? It makes no sense and doesn't make the leve more challenging because it just forced people on to lower stars to lower the rank of the mobs.

I remember this being an issue under the old system too, some leves would have ranks 5 lower than the rest and you'd lose SP or wipe if you set the stars wrong. Dunesfolk always seemed to require one less star than others for that reason and setting it wrong could get nasty.

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Originally Posted by Xenor

That's all good and well but it really shouldn't be like that. You shouldn't have to find out through trial and error and then have to make a note of the hundreds of leves and what rank their mobs are.

What's the point of some leves having mobs 5 ranks higher than the others anyway? It makes no sense and doesn't make the leve more challenging because it just forced people on to lower stars to lower the rank of the mobs.

I remember this being an issue under the old system too, some leves would have ranks 5 lower than the rest and you'd lose SP or wipe if you set the stars wrong. Dunesfolk always seemed to require one less star than others for that reason and setting it wrong could get nasty.

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I couldn't disagree more with this. This is EXACTLY the way it should be.

I 5-star every single leve in which I am in a group; 4-star every leve which I am not in a group. No problems beating either one; but some require a lot more strategy and planning than others. Having tougher mobs does NOT require you to lower the stars to 4 or 3; it simply requires you to have a little bit of strategy and tactics when you fight.

Do we really want a game in which r30 rats are as difficult to beat as r30 undead mages? Of course not! It's unrealistic and unsatisfying when everything is easily beat. I want leves, and in general all quests in this game, to be challenging and rewarding. Simply leveling all mobs to the same difficulty is the opposite of challenge and reward.

IIRC, the harder leves pay more money as well. So it's not like you don't get something out of it.

Camp Skull Valley
Leve name: Herbicide
Problem: Dodo's begin at rank 20 on a 1 star difficulty. A 5 star difficulty finds you against rank 32 dodos for a quest specified for Rank 10.

Why does this happen? XD

Normally they should be R15
I make the leve after the next reset if I can get it

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Originally Posted by Cycloptichorn

I couldn't disagree more with this. This is EXACTLY the way it should be.

I 5-star every single leve in which I am in a group; 4-star every leve which I am not in a group. No problems beating either one; but some require a lot more strategy and planning than others. Having tougher mobs does NOT require you to lower the stars to 4 or 3; it simply requires you to have a little bit of strategy and tactics when you fight.

Do we really want a game in which r30 rats are as difficult to beat as r30 undead mages? Of course not! It's unrealistic and unsatisfying when everything is easily beat. I want leves, and in general all quests in this game, to be challenging and rewarding. Simply leveling all mobs to the same difficulty is the opposite of challenge and reward.

IIRC, the harder leves pay more money as well. So it's not like you don't get something out of it.

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No one mentioned reducing the difficulty of harder mobs such as undead mages. I don't know where you got that from. This thread is about the unbalancing or mob ranks. You should be fighting a rank 30 rat on one leve and a rank 30 undead mage on the next, not a rank 30 rat on one leve and a rank 35 undead mage on the next forcing you to reduce its rank to 30 through lowering stars.

Harder leve != higher ranks. Well technically it does, but then you can ask yourself why you aren't doing rank 40 leves at rank 1. The reason you aren't is because leves are designed for a specific rank. So is the star system. The point is balancing this to the point where you know what rank your mobs will be before starting the leve. It doesn't make the mob easier, it makes the leve rank appropriate.