DEV REQUEST: Individual loot

Is there anyway we can get individual loot into the game so therefore everyone leaves the instance with something even it random? similar to DCUO

So instead of rolling on loot- all that loot would go to your inventory. Everyone gets different loot but it is all theirs. So if we beat a boss and 4 items drop then all all 4 items will go to each person- but people would receive different items

What do you guys think?

Same like WoW?

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Originally Posted by nuyu11

Same like WoW?

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I never played WoW - how do they do it?

Current system is every boss drop loot, but random gear and we need to roll.
In WoW personal loot you have a some % chance that you have a loot from boss individually based from your class and role in that time.
In short after you kill boss either you have loot drop or not, if yes it goes straight to your inventory.

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Originally Posted by nuyu11

Current system is every boss drop loot, but random gear and we need to roll.
In WoW personal loot you have a some % chance that you have a loot from boss individually based from your class and role in that time.
In short after you kill boss either you have loot drop or not, if yes it goes straight to your inventory.

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Never played WoW, that's a pretty interesting system. Reminds me of one of the few things in TESO that i would like to see implemented anywhere else.

In that game in some events like say the open world Anchor fights, after the battle a chest is dropped. Depending on how much you contributed, you will see the chest or you wont. If you earned access to it, the chest will have some decent random loot in it. And everyone who has access to it gets their own loot from the chest.

Personally, i'd be fine with an addition like something this or some iteration thereof.

They are changing the loot system in 3.0... from what I understand primals will be dropping tokens(I assume alongside normal loot)(each person will automatically get a token from what I understood) so if you don't get what you want after what was it 10 runs you can trade in the tokens. From what I understand Alexander normal will be more like the towers with 1 loot/floor(?)/week/person - runable as much as you want - I don't believe they've detailed the savage mode Alexander loot yet(could be mistaken).

Wouldn't mind having an extra chest that is individual loot though - with a bit larger loot pool.

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Originally Posted by Spiritreaver1217

Never played WoW, that's a pretty interesting system. Reminds me of one of the few things in TESO that i would like to see implemented anywhere else.

In that game in some events like say the open world Anchor fights, after the battle a chest is dropped. Depending on how much you contributed, you will see the chest or you wont. If you earned access to it, the chest will have some decent random loot in it. And everyone who has access to it gets their own loot from the chest.

Personally, i'd be fine with an addition like something this or some iteration thereof.

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The issue with the system was that your initial drop percentage was really low (though it did gradually grow higher each consecutive fail from what I hear). If it failed you got a pitiful amount of gold. Not even close to enough for repairs. People looked at it this way: Master Loot guaranteed ~2-3 pieces of loot dropping from a raid boss, but with personal loot, there was a chance all people could get loot, or nobody could get loot.
On top of that, let's say you have 2 people in the same raid, one really low geared and one really high geared. The low geared one NEEDS the loot but personal loot dictated otherwise and thus the better geared player now has a piece of loot that's only good for disenchanting. This hurts progression slightly when you need the lower geared person's DPS to pick up, but they can never get gear

Granted that's how WoW implemented the system. That probably won't be at all how SE implements it, but first I want to see reception to the new Master loot and All Greed systems

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Originally Posted by ruskie

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yeah I have read about that also, there will be a currency system.
I think SE make that to give the casual player to play with their own pace.

Because with the RNG loot systems, casual player have a low chance to earn a what they want, unlike hardcore player they can farm all day long. With currency like that, I think casual player can have things what they want, it just take some times.

This is what I thought.

I thought that was terrible when they introduced that to dcuo. Still do. All it ended up being was a gateway to people crying fornall th extra loot to be rolledso everyone could gear up in a day.

2 pieces between 8 people, getting rolled on becomes
8 pieces distributed to 8 people randomly, becomes
8 pieces rolled on between 8 people.

Really the request is just an "I want it now!" Request.

So much of this game's longevity is based on you having to redo content over and over and over and over and over and over until you get the loot. If everybody got loot from a dungeon/raid/trial, every time they ran it, they would gear up much faster. There would be less reason to re-run that instance.

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Originally Posted by Akuryu

So much of this game's longevity is based on you having to redo content over and over and over and over and over and over until you get the loot. If everybody got loot from a dungeon/raid/trial, every time they ran it, they would gear up much faster. There would be less reason to re-run that instance.

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which in turn would make it harder for newer players to get into those dungeons as the motivation to rerun them is gone. Replay helps everyone.

They will need to seriously change the loot since they are adding more jobs. I would prefer individual loot reduced to only minions and TT cards and make them UU (maybe not TT cards if they plan to implement a trade system) since I'm really tired of seeing minions selling more than actual gear that can be used for progression as well as annoyed at how many times i get beat on the Puff minion.

I'm hoping that loot will be distributed evenly i.e in the first raid level you will get four loot chests with two being for dps and the other two for tank/healer. I also feel that maybe a "smart" rng system that back logs drops would be better by looking at all players class/job and will only drop that type of gear. For example you will not get caster gear if there is no caster in your group and likewise you will not get the same gear more than twice in a row. Basically if an item is "Pass"-ed multiple times it will be drop to a lower drop rate and will increase in percentage the more times you beat the instance until you see it again.

Since they introduced a "token" system I'm curious how it will work though if they wanted everyone to get gear in the end why don't they just make it so everyone gets loot upon defeating an instance? and bad rng to create longevity of content is superficial, and just plain 'outdated and lazy' game design and I hope they learned their lesson with the Atma, Novus, and Zoidac relic steps. If they want people to not beat a raid in a week just put mechanics that require you to be a certain ilvl to survive mechanics or make hard dps checks.

Sorry if I sound like I'm ranting but I'm still pretty salty from loosing out the HA tank chest every time I roll on it. If anyone on Levi wants to farm this before HW send me a msg pls.

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Originally Posted by nuyu11

Same like WoW?

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I've never played WoW... I've played other games...
buut...

Generally the loot system is as bad as it is in MMORPG's due to the historical problem of either "farming" easily obtainable items for people who ~already~ have the gear, and other players picking up the loot from the floor that players didn't immediately pick up. One of the earlier "vac-hacks" that were eliminated by changing how loot systems work so other players couldn't pick up objects that wasn't theirs, and later didn't drop anything to the floor at all, just straight into inventory.

The first time I actually saw the greed/need system was SWTOR, which I already knew was a WoW knock off because of how many freaking people kept comparing it during the Beta. Something that Final Fantasy XIV:ARR does better (or worse, depending on your POV) is that the gear system at least resembles gear. Games like SW:TOR, Star Trek Online, and numerous medieval-fantasy have no distiction between a poorer gear and a great gear other than a rarity indicator, so when you get these need/greed boxes, people don't #1 know why they are getting the box, and #2 if the item being rolled for is good or trash.

Fortunately FFXIV's stuff isn't usually trash. But I think automatically giving people what they want on the first go is just incredably stupid, players won't replay content once they get what they want from it, but on the other hand, I think RNG-based loot is also pretty stupid. How many times have I run WoD and not seen the healer chest piece? I've never seen it even once. I've seen the DRG/NIN/MNK gear dozens of times. I gave up and just bought the poetics tomes gear chest piece.

If the token system does what I think it will do, that will be replacing the "tomes" system we already have as well. eg every time you complete a dungeon but pass on the loot, you get a token for that dungeon. Each dungeon, like before only gives certain sets of gear, and if you pass on every gear, you just get the token instead. Trade several tokens in for the specific gear piece you want. This is kinda how the level 70/80/90 gear worked before, you rolled on the "old" unusable gear and traded it in for the piece you wanted. Except this probably simplifies the process so you don't have to dig through a dozen menus of NPC's looking for what exactly is traded for what.

Flooding the game with yet more useless stuff that is neither crafting materials nor tradeables just makes it not worth doing once you get what you wanted. So SE has to balance the needs of the few with the needs of the many. The entire tomes system was flawed in that way, because people were doing the dungeons to farm tomes, but since you can only get 450 poetics in a week, most people could get that in a day if they really wanted. Or just spread it over a week and do just each roulette once per day.

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Originally Posted by Marxam

They will need to seriously change the loot since they are adding more jobs. I would prefer individual loot reduced to only minions and TT cards and make them UU (maybe not TT cards if they plan to implement a trade system) since I'm really tired of seeing minions selling more than actual gear that can be used for progression as well as annoyed at how many times i get beat on the Puff minion.

I'm hoping that loot will be distributed evenly i.e in the first raid level you will get four loot chests with two being for dps and the other two for tank/healer.
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You can't sell the Puff of Darkness. Though it will let you keep need'ing on it every time (that really should be fixed... don't allow "need"'s on unique items the player alreadys has, in both their inventory and their retainers.)

As for "one chest per person" , that's exactly how Mabinogi works, and is actually worse than FFXIV in that regard. In Mabinogi, IF there is a rare item, it is randomly added to one of the end chests ... along with a bunch of usually trash loot and some money. Getting rare stuff from dungeons in that game was super-hard (as in people would run it 100 times and get nothing every time, RNG is hateful.) and the rare items sold for millions, which is why people farmed them, even dragging along as many "mule" characters just to fill party spots so they got more chests. That system is awful for so many reasons, but the fact that you could run it 100 times and get nothing but trash that you can't even sell just makes it so much more infuriating.

There's no reason for people to explore dungeons if they are guaranteed the item on the first go. A game stops being a RPG game with a risk vs reward, when impatient people take the fun out of the game.

The proposed Token system sounds like a way to just put a floor under the amount of grind needed to get something useful. So you don't end up running a dungeon 100 times, and see the Ninja pants 97 times and Dragoon gear 3 times, but you're a caster.

For the savage raids I would recommend a Master Loot system where all (or most) of the items for that instance drops and only the raid leader is given a limited number of picks, and distributes them based on the raid's collective agreement and discard the rest. For example; in a single raid instance, out of 16 possible drops you will only see 8 randomly selected gear and be able to pick 4 from those 8 with the other 4 being discarded and those 4 will then be subjected to the usual need and greed. It reduces the RNG significantly but still gives the flexibility and higher chance of obtaining the gear you want and with the largerr loot pool there's a greater chance to see more of the gear you want.

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Originally Posted by NintenPyjak64

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Liked and thanks for that info. I can see how a system like the one Blizzard set up there could have issues.

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Originally Posted by Akuryu

So much of this game's longevity is based on you having to redo content over and over and over and over and over and over until you get the loot. If everybody got loot from a dungeon/raid/trial, every time they ran it, they would gear up much faster. There would be less reason to re-run that instance.

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Going by some account i read(very sorry i can't remember where hopefully someone can link it) there are going to more tiers in gear in HW, in my mind meaning there will be more stuff to collect. Hopefully that will help ppl get something faster, but still have ppl hooked enough to keep trying to get more.

From my personal opinion, I don't mind with current loot system because all gear can be acquired from tomes, I'm still not sure about something beyond that.
I'm a casual player who can't spend much time on weekdays, I can play more time at weekend and during that time I cant focus on everything.
But in my heart I still want to farm "Puff of Darkness", "Onion Knight" and all the ponies. I just don't have any luck with the RNG and time.

I'm looking forward with the new currency systems, I don't mind if it time gating as long I can have it.

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Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

So SE has to balance the needs of the few with the needs of the many.

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Lol Kisai, this statement totally made me flashback to the statue of Spock on New Romulus,^^

Two tac fleet admirals, one fed (Vulcan), one rommy (alien), and a fed engineer (alien) and fed sci (joined trill), both fleet admirals as well.

Anyway, great read, I remember another thread with tokens mentioned, very interested in seeing how this will work.

I personally think individual loot was one of the worst things to happen to WoW.

I'm completely fine with the current loot system. Simple as that. It give you incentive to rerun old dungeons, rather than simply running them once and being done. Plus, it makes rare drops all the more exciting when they come up, (Onion Knight minion comes to mind), because everyone knows it's there and can see that they have a chance for it.....

Any attempts to include a guaranteed drop as well would be pointless, since they would upset the in game economy for whatever the drop is unless it was untradable, which would still make that item relatively worthless. Including a gil bonus would also be pointless because farming gil would be easier, and thus the value would decrease. Really, the only thing I could see that would work would be to give out a small amount of retainer ventures as the "static" reward, with maybe one or two for pre-50 dungeons and trials, and increasing amounts for endgame content....

XI used personal loot chests in a few systems, notably Voidwatch and Delve. It was just as bad as the current system in XIV is, trust me. When you need 1500 Heavy Metal Plates and the whole alliance of 18 has a 10% chance of getting one in their chests and a 5% chance of getting a HMP sack - odds are you're not going to be the one to get it.

Normally I'd say no, it's fine how it is, especially with tomestone rewards.

But then when you keep losing the upgrades you need to finish the story because an i120+ player needs them for GC turn-ins, you begin to rethink that stance ♥

I am so very tired of almost always being on the unlucky side of things. After the same amount of primals, my friend had 4-5 ponies and I had 1. FCoB isn't treating me well so far either.

It's certainly true that people need a carrot on a stick to motivate them, but if that carrot is out of reach and you don't even get to properly nibble on it from time to time, it becomes useless. I feel my motivation to raid dwindling further and further because I usually just get to watch other people getting stuff, while I leave empty-handed.

Anything that combats the RNG in any way and makes loot distribution fairer is a plus in my books. I don't mind grind, as long as it's the kind where you know you'll be rewarded at the end - not the kind where you might be rewarded, or might grind 10 times longer than the next person and STILL get nothing.

They have these already, they call them tomestones. And they are adding tokens with the new primals to get their gear.

Most mmos need a better loot system because characters are only capable of playing one class. If gear is dropping in a raid or dungeon that doesn't match the players, it's just a waste. That isn't quite the case in FFXIV. When a raid boss drops a shield and your paladin doesn't need it, someone else in the group can enjoy using it eventually when they try playing paladin. It's not the best situation, but it's a lot better than being forced to vendor final boss loot for 30 gold as in other mmos.

How FFXIV can improve is by having generic tokens drop from raid bosses rather than the specific class armor. Your raid gets a "chest token", which any player can trade in for their chest armor of choice. That way you don't get dragoon pants 3-weeks in a row, or have a boss drop a weapon that doesn't match anyone in the party.

Hmm... maybe Castle Alexander can have a vending machine out front for token exchange.

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Originally Posted by StouterTaru

They have these already, they call them tomestones. And they are adding tokens with the new primals to get their gear.

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If you could trade unwanted gear in for tomestones, then you would have a point. I know a raid group that had a paladin shield dropping every week for three straight months.