[Suggestion] RED MAGE

I know there are a billion threads about this job. But I was bored and couldn't sleep so I came up with this. Its flexible, would be considered a melee magic DPS (notice the spell casting distance is only 10-15 yalms; for comparison BLM is 25 yalms) however it caters to the melee and to the magic sides of RDM. Utilizing Glyph and Insignia stacks (you can stack both at the same time, in fact certain spells and abilities are stronger the more total stacks you have) you can utilize both magic and melee. It has a unique healing spell that is self target and heals EVERYONE (including alliance and random non party/ally adventurers so long as they are in range [think Mantra sized range]). There is a dual magic combo cycle involved with the job as you may note, you have an elemental wheel wherein the magic combos off of its lesser element. Then you can finish a combo by upgrading the tier of the same magic, so think a possible combo to deal big damage is:

Stonera > Swift Blade > Blizzara > Vorpal Blade > Fira > Red Lotus Blade > Fira II

A combo like this would allow big melee and magic damage to happen on top of each other, and since spells are separate from melee for SAB/RDM something like this would be possible. There are also combos that would inflict lots of debuffs so performing that combo first then ending with this would create big damage while assisting in the party with debuffs. The potency of the spells and weapon skills are balanced with other jobs, and the trade off with Glyphs and Insignias should keep it on par with damage output and not make it too powerful. Anywho it was something I did out of pure boredom so enjoy, and devs feel free to rip and and all ideas from this as you see fit!

LINK for non-scaled picture

http://i.imgur.com/4igGeH7.png

I should note the MP values are not the scaled amount, those would be the amounts if you were level 1. (I formatted it to be the same as they show on various online wikis and the like)

Edit 5/5/15: This will probably end up getting moved to Disciples of War Sub-forum because it deals with that, however I posted here because this is not in the game; plus there tends to be more traction and viewers here then there. Thanks for considering these things before moving it mods.

EDIT 5/6/15: I changed the image, something happened where the healing spell was cropped out of the original image, its fixed now. I also moved an ability to be level 1, and changed up the tier 2 -ra spells to need to consume insignias to promote use of both melee and magic, based on suggestions posted here. I also removed Silence, and replaced it with the spell Dispel. Also I added some abilities to be cross-class abilities/spells, and changed the format a bit to make it easier to view overall.

oh hello another thread about red mage to merge with the others?

ok good ok, follow me well take you back to your friends.


all joking aside (i think 8th thread now) someone has asked about red mage a few days ago that is still on the front page (when i checked) please check more then page 2 to see if there is a thread about this.

anyway, as said by a 1.0 player during the first red mage thread of 2.0 the skills of red mage that they are iconic for that would give the class uniqueness belong to Archaist, bio miasma and ruin are red mage attacks in most final fantasy's but is archaist now. as for stonera blizzara Fira , in the english language they removed the a ra ga ja suffixes and turned it into i II III IV for 'easier understanding and simplisity' fire 2 is fira fire 3 is firaga. etc

so blizzara fira and stonera, are allready in the game under blizzard II Fire II and Stone II.

so red mage would have no uniqueness to be a class in FFXIV.
also

this game dose -not- (as of yet) utalize the elemental damage system, so red mages elemental based attacks that they are also known for would be ineffective.

so tl: Dr there skills are used by everyone else and whats left wouldn't make a class. as discussed in SEVERAL red mage threads.

It sounded good until we got to blizzara, but then I just got confused and couldn't focus anymore.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DefendPopPunk

It sounded good until we got to blizzara, but then I just got confused and couldn't focus anymore.

---

In final fantasy spells go Fire Fira Firaga Firaja FiraSa then Flare.
FFXIV is one of 2 (ffxi) where the spells go Fire I Fire II fire III fire IV fire V etc/

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DracotheDragon

In final fantasy spells go Fire Fira Firaga Firaja FiraSa then Flare.
FFXIV is one of 2 (ffxi) where the spells go Fire I Fire II fire III fire IV fire V etc/

---

Riiiiiiight >_>;

Actually quite liked your concept here. One of the better ones for Red mage I've seen on this site ^_^

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DracotheDragon

snip

---

Personally. I would normally agree with you about consolidating threads. However I would say class/job concept threads require their own thread. Otherwise discussion over different proposals would be derailed

Second Red Mage is a class or job yoshiP fully intends to implement. He's already stated its one of the jobs he wants to include. And every other job he's mentioned in that way has been added this far except samurai yet.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DracotheDragon

anyway, as said by a 1.0 player during the first red mage thread of 2.0 the skills of red mage that they are iconic for that would give the class uniqueness belong to Archaist, bio miasma and ruin are red mage attacks in most final fantasy's but is archaist now.

so red mage would have no uniqueness to be a class in FFXIV.
also

this game dose -not- (as of yet) utalize the elemental damage system, so red mages elemental based attacks that they are also known for would be ineffective.

so tl: Dr there skills are used by everyone else and whats left wouldn't make a class. as discussed in SEVERAL red mage threads.

---

There is NO reason RDM couldn't be in the game even now.

No uniqueness? I wrote this in 5 minutes, right off the top of my head for another thread.

• Dual Cast: Allows the Red Mage to instantly cast two spells back-to-back at half the MP cost. Duration: Instant CD: 90 Seconds.
• Refresh: Increases MP regeneration on a single target. Duration: 30sec CD: 2 min
• En-(Elemental) Enchants the Red Mage's blade with one of many elements. ex; fire= chance to apply DOT, Ice= Chance to slow, Lightning= chance to paralyze. Toggle Skill.
• Limit Break Lv3: Pimpin: The Red Mage flourishes his magnificent hat and cape while introducing the enemy to his "escorts." Enemy loses desire to battle, rewarding the party with an instant win.

They could even give them the ability to cast Haste on the party. No job can use that, unless you count Selene.

All except the limit break, of course, would be viable, making Red Mage unique and allow them to hold their own. Dual Cast Cure 2 to keep them on par with Benediction or Lustrate spams. Double instant rez too if needed. Wouldn't be OP either. Being RDM means they have no mastery of Black or White Magic, so they wouldn't have access to such spells like Flare, Benediction or Holy.

And see how I use the elements in a way that would work in FF14 with the "En" line of actions?

To make RDM work, even at 2.0 re-launch, all they would have to do is allow the RDM to choose his/her role for DF.

If you give it some thought, anything is possible. :D

I actually really liked the idea that Melee abilites performed in the right order would buff your spells or provide a En spell effect such as incresed damage from en fire or something.

i hate RDM as a DPS class, any RDM that doesn't have Cure isn't a good implementation of RDM.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DracotheDragon

so tl: Dr there skills are used by everyone else and whats left wouldn't make a class. as discussed in SEVERAL red mage threads.

---

a RDM is supposed to use existing White and Black Magic spells, that's what makes it a Red Mage. how and why it uses those skills is what makes the class, not what they are. half of the skills in the game are straight up damage or DoT with slightly different animations anyway.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SendohJin

i hate RDM as a DPS class, any RDM that doesn't have Cure isn't a good implementation of RDM.

---

We have a DPS with a natural healing ability, so it's not as if they couldn't give a DPS RDM Cure.

Hello!

I thought about posting this in an existing thread about RED MAGE suggestions however like noted already, different suggestions shouldn't 'co-exist' within the same threads--or so that is how I felt. If I were to post this in someone else's thread with the line "This is how I feel they should do it" it 1) makes me look like a jackass who is trying to steal the thread from the OP and 2) disrespects the ideas of the OP, so I opted for my own threads separate of other people's ideas.

Secondly, -ra spells are not currently in the game and the -ra II spells offer unique debuffs (they are different than what BLM and WHM can do) when used in part of a combo. When creating this job I was thinking along the lines of a yin and yang, magic and melee. Which is where it's uniqueness comes from, you have special abilities that become stronger when the synergy between magic and melee is high, RDM would also be the only job that could land debuffs continually, with their special trait.

As for the elemental wheel and monsters not having weaknesses. I understand this, however RDM has always been a mix of WHM, BLM, and melee damage; so I thought 'how can this be done without making those other jobs obsolete?' My answer was a pseudo-elemental wheel where the magic would combo off the element it is stronger than.

Fire→Ice→Stone→Lightning→Wind→Fire

Which is why Fira combo's from Blizzara, and that RDM doesn't really have a "start here to begin your combo" because every tier 1 elemental magic spell can be the beginning of the combo depending on what you are trying to do to the monster (debuff or damage). Then you sprinkle melee weapon skills between those spells to strengthen the damage output, and you should have a job that functions somewhere between a BRD and a BLM in terms of damage output (since they have a way to continually apply debuffs its only natural that their DPS not be as high as let's say NIN/DRG/MNK).

Also to give it its own uniqueness, is the Glyph and Insignia system. Unlike BLM where tiers of Astral/Umbral make your spells more powerful in terms of DPS, RDM will be constantly consuming Glyphs and Insignias to be able to cast more powerful spells and by comboing they can ensure they can combo for a longer duration.

All in all, the job on the surface, may look like another magic DPS, BLM-clone, that is if you just look at the spell names. However if you read a bit more into it, you will see if offers classic RDM-ery, utilizing elements of WHM and BLM, as well as offering its own uniqueness as RDM.

A note on Spells: the -ra spells are NOT in the game in any way shape or form. Blizzard II does not equal Blizzara. In FFXI -ga represented AoE elemental spells and -ja represented elemental magic that was stronger based on previous actions (iirc). Each had their own tiers 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 for the single targets which was just Blizzard, stone, Fire, etc.

Looking at other FF titles:
FF1 first game to use a numbering system, Fire, Fir2, Fir3 (they could only have 4 characters per spell due to limitations)
FF2 didn't utilize tiers as the magic grew based on how you played the game
FF3 second game that utilized a number convention to indicate a higher tier
FF4 third game that utilized a number convention to indicate a higher tier
FF5 forth game that utilized a number convention to indicate a higher tier
FF6 fifth game utilized a number convention to indicate a higher tier
FF7 sixth game that utilized materia which magic grew stronger, however they were numbered Fire 1, 2, 3 to indicate its tier
FF8 first game to use a naming convention to indicate a higher tier ie: Fire, Fira, Firaga
FF9 second game to use a naming convention to indicate a higher tier ie: Fire, Fira, Firaga
FF10 third game to use a naming convention to indicate a higher tier ie: Fire, Fira, Firaga
FFXI seventh game that used a number convention for higher tiers, while using a naming convention to represent AoE vs Single target
FF12 forth game to use a naming convention to indicate a higher tier ie: Fira, Fira, Firaga
FF13 fifth game to use a naming convention to indicate a higher tier ie: Fire, Fira, Firaga
FF14 eighth game that used a numbering convention in place of naming convention for higher tiers.

Numbering has been used up to 8 times, while naming has only been used 5 times, and is mainly from the newer games.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SendohJin

i hate RDM as a DPS class, any RDM that doesn't have Cure isn't a good implementation of RDM.



a RDM is supposed to use existing White and Black Magic spells, that's what makes it a Red Mage. how and why it uses those skills is what makes the class, not what they are. half of the skills in the game are straight up damage or DoT with slightly different animations anyway.

---

Missed this response, they do have a Cure spell, two (kinda) Cura (which would heal the ANY playable character within range, not just party members) and Sanguine Blade which is a self HP and MP healing Weapon skill.

I fully agree that RDM needs some way to encourage swapping between casting and melee, and this idea is as promising as any. So, here's my critique, in no particular order.

Just to start, if you really want the job to alternate between melee and magic you should probably re-think the combo bonuses. According to your chart there's no reason to switch, as you can go Sage's Glyph > Dia > Stonera > Blizzara > Fira > Fira II without any melee attacks in between, and vice versa. To continue, you just spam Dia to get back glyph stacks and then combo again from there because nothing you do on the melee side is going to give you more glyphs.

Since Dia is the go-to spell for Glyphs, you might consider switching the DoT to one of the other spells and just making Dia a straight damage spell.

Since you're not using it for tiering, the -ra convention throws the naming off. I'd suggest just throwing the suffix out entirely and using entirely alternate spell names: Burn, Ice, Bolt, Rock, Gale, Spray (you may as well have a water spell too, since it's the only element you left out) and Heal (oh yeah, you don't actually have Cura on the list either), as examples.

TP/MP can probably be ignored with the Glyph/Insignia system in place, although the Glyphs/Insignias are kind of unwieldy, so keeping TP/MP and dropping the buffs might work better. Either way, having both is just extra cost for no real reason other than to have an extra cost. Just give spells combo bonuses from melee attacks and give melee attacks combo bonuses from spells. As a cooldown, Circumvent is still fine making the costs free for 15s. Chainspell would need re-thinking, though, but not for the reason you'd think.

From Chainspell's description, I can see it being saved for use exclusively with Circumvent, meaning, without any changes to the current design, you get 15 seconds of free-cost spells with full combo bonuses and only a 1s cast time preventing unlimited macro spamming. At the current 7 minute recast, it would still give long fights categorically to RDM, as you're getting a possible 15 spells in 15 seconds. If BLM had the same ability, they'd only get 6-7 spells in 15 seconds, depending on Swiftcast. Changing Chainspell to make all spells instant-cast without affecting the GCD, however, would give it good non-game-breaking utility and the recast can be brought down to much more reasonable levels.

You should never have an ability with a Stun you don't directly control attached to it. With no other elemental spikes, Shock Spikes is fine without the Stun, and you should really allow it to be cast on others (like tanks) or else it will just be a solo-only spell.

Likewise, you should never have a Cooldown ability with any cost. Circumvent should be free, and the recast should be dropped to 120s at most.

Chainspell's recast should be 60-90s if it changes to cast time, 180s if you go with a more powerful effect; otherwise even 7 minutes might not be long enough to balance it as it currently is.

Shock Spikes and Flat Blade recasts should be cut in half. Actually, Shock Spikes may as well be a buff spell on the GCD, as the effect is pretty much the same as a weak DoT.

Silence is always used as a reaction with a 1s duration. A 4s duration is just overkill. 30s recast is probably far too long for an ability that does nothing except Silence. Silence isn't necessarily the party-getter it used to be either. A spell like Dispel would have much greater applications, if that's what you were going for.

The affinity column may as well be tossed, since there are no cross-class skills in the list. Saboteur may as well be absorbed into RDM, since the new direction of jobs is to no longer have classes. The current classes may very well be the last classes we ever get.

Melee range for swords (PLD) is 3y.

There isn't much reason to separate the two buffs. Actually, there isn't much reason to have the buffs in the first place since their recast is shorter than their duration, and most combo timers are already at 10 seconds. You could just use combo bonuses to add the glyphs and insignias.

You should also have a weaponskill (Swift Blade) or spell (Dia), or even Shock Spikes just to be different, at 1st level, as the buffs do nothing for a 1st level character.

I updated the Original post with the a new image, don't know what happened to the Cura spell but it was there. (these things happen when you post big posts with not much sleep). I also took some of the suggestions into consideration and did some tweaks.

Link to the new image, if you don't want to navigate back to the OP