(Serious) White Mage and Scholar are equally balanced.

And if you think otherwise, you're dumb.

/thread

lol SCH is superior in everyway.

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Originally Posted by Yona87

lol SCH is superior in everyway.

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You missed the point

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(Serious) White Mage and Scholar are equally balanced.
And if you think otherwise, you're dumb.

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So, you're dumb :D

Unless you're being sarcastic

Ast gonna be the new best unbalanced healer. Then se will nerf it and it'll be back to good ol' whm vs sch while Ast cries in a corner.

Any serious player could play their Job to the best of its' ability. That goes for tanking and DPS as well as healing. It's the player not the Job.

How many SCH have I seen that leave their fairy on Sic? How many WHM Benediction with full MP? How many WHM Holy until their MP is 0? How many SCH do not understand what Adloquium and Succor is for?

I don't think I am the best WHM, but WHM is my favourite Job and I am proud of WHM. I always do my best to be the best WHM I can be ^^. When in group with a good SCH the run goes extremely smoothly.

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Originally Posted by Chiramu

How many WHM Benediction with full MP?

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I do this all the time when a) I'm bored or b) Someone derped and I need a (semi) instant heal to max health. :P

On a side note, I don't think it's fair to call them dumb. Rather than stifle discussions--may be it pointless to you or not--discussion is discussion. If you see that there is nothing else to offer or both sides are too stubborn or ignorant of the opposing side, then you're free to leave the discussion. Personally I enjoy these kinds of discussions since you get to see different thought processes, rationale and logic, but to each of their own I guess.

If anything, recent discussions have been about as productive as my twitch habits during the weekends.

The forums could essentially be summed up in sweet headlines, considering how silly discussions tend to be.

5 Reasons Why Healers Shouldn't DPS: My Easily Refutable Experiences With An All-Dragoon Party. Also, My Video Game Cartridge Is Haunted?!

Make Way For The Scholar Master Race: How I Learned To Finally Set Eos On Obey, Doing Caduceus For The First Time In ilvl130 Gear!

White Mage MP Concerns In Heavensward: I Still Haven't Realized That Shroud of Saints Actually Scales With Levels.

And soon to come for our Astrologian brethren...

Cards? Girl, My Poker Face Ain't Got No Time For Cards. Or Barrier Stance. Actually, Why Am I Still Playing? Dark Knight Is So Much Dreamier! *wistful sigh*

Snarky And Easily Scornful? Why Do You ask?

Let's cheer up with a cute kangaroo.

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Originally Posted by Raminax

If anything, recent discussions have been about as productive as my twitch habits during the weekends.

The forums could essentially be summed up in sweet headlines:

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Hahahahahahaha, you are so right xD

I'm a scholar and I love my white mage friends! <3 <3 <3

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Originally Posted by Cendres

I'm a scholar and I love my white, mage friends! <3 <3 <3

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Dude, not cool.

8^)

the truth is: both healers are overpowered. and the astro will be overpowered too

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Originally Posted by Yumi_umi

Ast gonna be the new best unbalanced healer. Then se will nerf it and it'll be back to good ol' whm vs sch while Ast cries in a corner.

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That reminds me of a scene in Sam & Max Season 1...

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Max: (describing what happened to a beat-up gumball machine) A gang of five dentists came through the other night, and four of them just started beating the crap out of it!
Sam: What did the fifth one do?
Max: He kept sobbing, and saying, "Why can't we all just get along?"

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Also, all the healers are overpowered. They heal more than any of the other classes! :p

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Originally Posted by Parawill

On a side note, I don't think it's fair to call them dumb. Rather than stifle discussions--may be it pointless to you or not--discussion is discussion. If you see that there is nothing else to offer or both sides are too stubborn or ignorant of the opposing side, then you're free to leave the discussion. Personally I enjoy these kinds of discussions since you get to see different thought processes, rationale and logic, but to each of their own I guess.

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There's always been some kind of weird, unspoken gag order going on in the healer forums. It feels very... dystopian. I love dystopian novels; dystopian forums are just... weird.

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Originally Posted by Mutemutt

There's always been some kind of weird, unspoken gag order going on in the healer forums. It feels very... dystopian. I love dystopian novels; dystopian forums are just... weird.

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No. There's thread after thread after thread on SCH vs WHM. No one's stopping the discussion from repeating over and over and over and over again.

It does make some people tired of it. But you can do yet another SCH vs WHM thread if you really want to.

Yes. And make sure that you put down those dirty Scholars by proving how their healing output sucks because they can't do amazing 10'000 Cure II crits under circumstances which will never, ever happen in a practical fight. Or how your Shroud of Saints restores 2'000 MP (Natural MP regeneration? What's that?) compared to the PUNY 900 AETHERFLOW WHITE MAGE SMASH FEEBLE SCHOLAR RAWR

Or if you want to put down White Mages as the Scholar that oozes sexuality and wants everyone to mate with you, because gods forbid that your brilliant intellect isn't passed on, mention how you keep your faerie on Sic all the time, because it's enough for the Roulette Sastasha runs you do. Or how you think that Cure III is the best single target heal a White Mage has, because obviously greater numbers mean better, and Cure is the single target line of spells, silly.

Or even better, if you're a masochist like me who hates everyone, just mention how your Spell Speed build regularly saves the tank from being flattened by Bahamut Prime. You'll instantly gain the unconditional adoration and undying hatred of thousands of Scholars and White Mages. We healers are complicated like that.

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Originally Posted by Raminax

...if you're a masochist...

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Well, this is the healers' forum.

Astro will be overpowered and overtuned.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

No. There's thread after thread after thread on SCH vs WHM. No one's stopping the discussion from repeating over and over and over and over again.

It does make some people tired of it. But you can do yet another SCH vs WHM thread if you really want to.

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Well, it's not like the user's have any power to stop that even though it's quite apparent they want that topic to disappear forever. It's pretty much the taboo topic around here.

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Originally Posted by Mutemutt

Well, it's not like the user's have any power to stop that even though it's quite apparent they want that topic to disappear forever. It's pretty much the taboo topic around here.

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It's because the topic always devolves into a poo-flinging contest of who is better than whom. Same arguments made, same calculated numbers stamped in, superiority complexes get fired up and the same dead horse beaten for the umpteenth time. :/ I'm not a fan of those threads, at all, and glad when they die down. It's not that you CAN'T, just that it goes nowhere and usually only serves to spark more than just a peaceful debate - and people get tired of it. I'd rather the divide of WHM and SCH close and the two come together - not become more and more against each other... which is what becomes illustrated in those kinds of threads.

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Originally Posted by Mutemutt

Well, it's not like the user's have any power to stop that even though it's quite apparent they want that topic to disappear forever. It's pretty much the taboo topic around here.

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I think people are just tired of going in circles. You can argue until you're blue in the face but in the end (and as much as some people here really hate it), progression groups are going to take 1 of each healer.

i just think that I am a better white mage than the scholar next to me ^__________________^

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Originally Posted by Saseal

It's because the topic always devolves into a poo-flinging contest of who is better than whom. Same arguments made, same calculated numbers stamped in, superiority complexes get fired up and the same dead horse beaten for the umpteenth time. :/ I'm not a fan of those threads, at all, and glad when they die down. It's not that you CAN'T, just that it goes nowhere and usually only serves to spark more than just a peaceful debate - and people get tired of it. I'd rather the divide of WHM and SCH close and the two come together - not become more and more against each other... which is what becomes illustrated in those kinds of threads.

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Well, taboo topics will do that, I suppose. You can argue it's for the betterment of the healer subforum that we not speak of those "sch vs whm" topics, though, ironically, that does help drive home some of the 1984 imagery.

Oh and on another note, I think the dps forums might be more peaceful than the healer one; I find that a bit funny.

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Originally Posted by Mutemutt

Well, taboo topics will do that, I suppose. You can argue it's for the betterment of the healer subforum that we not speak of those "sch vs whm" topics, though, ironically, that does help drive home some of the 1984 imagery.

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The only person who's claiming it's taboo is you. If you have some new information to discuss/share, by all means, go ahead.

If you don't, don't be surprised that people aren't interested in repeating the many pages of discussion that have been treaded time and time again.

As it is, you're basically complaining that we don't want to sit through a first grade math class again and again. There's nothing orwellian about it, there's just nothing to be gained and repetition bores people. But if we can move from addition and subtraction and on to more advanced concepts, I'm sure people would be interested.

But I doubt you have such information to present. If you do, go ahead.

If double scholar could stack galvanize you might think different. Astrologian will determine if white mage stays or goes.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

The only person who's claiming it's taboo is you. If you have some new information to discuss/share, by all means, go ahead.

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I'm comparing it to a taboo because that's how I see it being treated most of the time. That "let's not talk about it", "I don't want to see it" coupled with the fact that so many seem to get riled up about it.

I don't want to respond to the rest because it feels pretty condescending, but I hope you're not getting too riled up about a half-joking comparison.

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Originally Posted by Mutemutt

I'm comparing it to a taboo because that's how I see it being treated most of the time. That "let's not talk about it", "I don't want to see it" coupled with the fact that so many seem to get riled up about it.

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Originally Posted by Vlady

If double scholar could stack galvanize you might think different. Astrologian will determine if white mage stays or goes.

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Posts like this are another reason why. A number of forum SCHs seem to resent that WHM can get a party at all, which motivates a lot of those passionate multipage posts arguing how much better SCH abilities are. But... Raid groups want not only a scholar but a white mage too, much to their resentment.

Avoid that trap and there is room for reasonable discussion. But yes, a lot of us are just very tired of seeing it rehashed.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

Posts like this are another reason why. A number of forum SCHs seem to resent that WHM can get a party at all, which motivates a lot of those passionate multipage posts arguing how much better SCH abilities are. But... Raid groups want not only a scholar but a white mage too, much to their resentment.

Avoid that trap and there is room for reasonable discussion. But yes, a lot of us are just very tired of seeing it rehashed.

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And I hope you're not trying to vilify me, though the way that post is structured certainly gives off that impression. Either way, I don't really feel like bringing "that discussion that shall not be named" into this thread too when the other one is still on the first page. I'm not even sure what this topic was trying to accomplish, to be honest.

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Originally Posted by Mutemutt

And I hope you're not trying to vilify me, though the way that post is structured certainly gives off that impression. Either way, I don't really feel like bringing "that discussion that shall not be named" into this thread too when the other one is still on the first page. I'm not even sure what this topic was trying to accomplish, to be honest.

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It was more a criticism of Vlady and similar (For my part, I honestly don't get why there is such an urge to convince people one job is superior to another, both here and in the other role forums). And, I think the OP is just expressing their frustration at the whole situation.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/63104

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Please use the search function placed at the top of the forum to see if your questions have already been answered. If there happens to be a thread with similar topics, please divert your questions to that particular thread.

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Let's look at the 1st 5 pages
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-who-is-better
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...I-m-sick-of-it.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...e-Mage-lacking
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...n-real-content
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-is-too-stronk

Pretty sure the topic was more than discussed already. So yea, these threads are getting out of control (not saying this one, i agree with OP)

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Originally Posted by Mutemutt

Well, taboo topics will do that, I suppose. You can argue it's for the betterment of the healer subforum that we not speak of those "sch vs whm" topics, though, ironically, that does help drive home some of the 1984 imagery.

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Another question to ask is 'why bring up a topic that does nothing but incite anger/frustration'? Whats the point?
We know all it does is blow up, so why keep doing it? It's like fishing for trout in a koi pond. You're not going to get that trout and it's a waste of time. There's nothing productive that comes out of any of the particular discussion or topic - nothing ever really has. It's so far a topic proven to only become one big "you suck; no you suck; nuh-uh you suck more" - really, it just boils down to "Y'all are great and y'all suck" at the same time. There is no answer to find, but people will just pick up on the same argument where it left off ONLY to drive their opinion to make their class the head honcho. There is no discussion when threads of this particular topic is created, it's just arguments. There's no point. :/ Sooooo, it becomes a "I don't wanna hear it/see it".
It kinda reminds me of really loud pre-teen girls having an argument. You gotta agree it's an incredibly annoying sound... lol

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Originally Posted by Mutemutt

Oh and on another note, I think the dps forums might be more peaceful than the healer one; I find that a bit funny.

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Healers are strange people /shrug
Might have more to do with frustrations of the responsibilities in playing the position as a main being vented indirectly.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

It was more a criticism of Vlady and similar (For my part, I honestly don't get why there is such an urge to convince people one job is superior to another, both here and in the other role forums). And, I think the OP is just expressing their frustration at the whole situation.

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^ This x_x

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Originally Posted by Saseal

Another question to ask is 'why bring up a topic that does nothing but incite anger/frustration'? Whats the point?...

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But that's what makes it so sad, isn't it? We can't talk about it because it makes everyone angry. For as much as they seem to compete, the dps really do get along better xD

And yes, my only problem with these threads is that they're not all combined into one thread; essentially, they just keep starting over instead of just continuing.

And what does it hurt if people want to post threads with their opinion on the matter? Some people feel that white mages are going from a mediocre spot to a bad spot in Heavens ward. You are more then welcome to just pass over this forum topic and you will never have to deal with the issue again. To others it is a debate we are passionate about and the more I love a game the more I want to put in my two cents on what I feel will make a better gaming experience.

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Originally Posted by Mutemutt

But that's what makes it so sad, isn't it? We can't talk about it because it makes everyone angry. For as much as they seem to compete, the dps really do get along better xD

And yes, my only problem with these threads is that they're not all combined into one thread; essentially, they just keep starting over instead of just continuing.

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No, it's more that people get upset because people insist one has to be, or is flat out, superior. Regardless of any information to the contrary people insist one is better. It gets very annoying and it's an old beaten horse. It's be discussed to death and people are tired of seeing the same things over and over, especially when it generally seems like people are being completely bias.

As Lyrica_Ashtine would say: There are a lot of scholar bandwagoners.

Because scholar having the hands down best heal in the game is really balanced? Give white mages a heal that is instant cast and isnt on a 5 minute cooldown then call it a day.

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Originally Posted by Vlady

Because scholar having the hands down best heal in the game is really balanced? Give white mages a heal that is instant cast and isnt on a 5 minute cooldown then call it a day.

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Lustrate doesn't automatically make SCH better than WHM.

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Originally Posted by Vlady

Because scholar having the hands down best heal in the game is really balanced? Give white mages a heal that is instant cast and isnt on a 5 minute cooldown then call it a day.

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SCH can spike considerably more single target healing than WHM, whilst WHM can spike considerably more AE target than SCH. What is the issue?

You are completely deluded pls =(

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Originally Posted by Mutemutt

But that's what makes it so sad, isn't it? We can't talk about it because it makes everyone angry.

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Yeah... incredibly sad. ._. Why can't we all just get along!? ;o; (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻*:･ﾟ✧

But the 'makes everyone angry' part comes in when people make comments that are, or interpretted as, 'holier than thou'. It's as much a clash of personalities as it is a clash of topic.

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

SCH can spike considerably more single target healing than WHM, whilst WHM can spike considerably more AE target than SCH. What is the issue?

You are completely deluded pls =(

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Not to mention that by the time it takes a Scholar to Lustrate 6 times, a White Mage would have already healed 8 players twice with Medica or Cure III.

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Originally Posted by Parawill

Not to mention that by the time it takes a Scholar to Lustrate 6 times, a White Mage would have already healed 8 players twice with Medica or Cure III.

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Depending on what the SCH is healing, this is an exaggeration. Besides, why waste 6 Lustrates like that? Rather just let Eos do Fey+WD and Succor. Moving on. It was probably for comparison purposes, but that isn't really fair. That's like saying the SCH would have restored a Single target to max before WHM could get out a Cure II. >w>