Most Hated: GLA Vs MRD

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09-07-2011, 08:29 AM
Holyomen

Most Hated: GLA Vs MRD

Sorry to disappoint, this isn't another complaint thread.

Who can generate the most hate?
Let's take a look at the match-up.

Gladiator
Heavy Slash
Heavy Stab
Provoke
Phalanx
Riot Blade

Marauder
Full Swing
Steadfast
Defender
Disorient
Warmonger
Storm's Path
Intimidation

In a practical situation both will be able to use many skills that the other class has, so I highlighted the ones that are unique.

Although Riot Blade builds a ton of hate, it cannot be used often due to it's recast time and the 2000+ TP cost. So Marauder has the upper hand using Storm's Path with it's 1500 TP cost and 10 second recast.

But, if the Gladiator is able to time their shield skills so at least one of them is always up, they may actually not only build more hate with Phalanx, but also out damage a Marauder. Phalanx comes at a mere cost of 250TP and a 5 second recast for a decent amount of damage. Although it may not build more hate than Storm's Path, it could be used much more often during a fight.

So in the battle of GLA Vs MRD, the Sentinel wins!
09-07-2011, 08:47 AM
Ferth

You forgot War Drum (though technically it's a sentinel ability.)
09-07-2011, 10:26 AM
Holyomen

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ferth

You forgot War Drum (though technically it's a sentinel ability.)

Sentinel wins +2!

Now if my MRD can get his hands on a shield......
09-07-2011, 02:12 PM
KumaAkuma

Played both Marauder and Gladiator on Ogre: Marauder always wins.
09-07-2011, 02:28 PM
Lienn

Quote:

Originally Posted by Holyomen

Sentinel wins +2!

Now if my MRD can get his hands on a shield......

MRD no longer can use shields...SE did a sneaky update on all shields, changing them from "Requires: Disciples of War or Magic" and "Requires: Disciple of War" to "requires: GLA CNJ THM" and "requires: GLA".

So right now even if it get access to 1-handed axe it wouldn't be able to equip shield.
09-07-2011, 04:39 PM
Viridiana

Is any of this taking into account that Defender increases your enmity if you're under the effect of Steadfast?
09-07-2011, 05:48 PM
KumaAkuma

This discussion is useless, because you can't calculate the amount of hate each ability provides.
09-07-2011, 07:28 PM
BisonShade

Quote:

Originally Posted by KumaAkuma

This discussion is useless, because you can't calculate the amount of hate each ability provides.

Couldn't this be done by engaging multiple players on the same mob and performing various different abilities to see which pull hate over others (as was done in XI)?
09-07-2011, 07:30 PM
Viridiana

Quote:

Originally Posted by KumaAkuma

This discussion is useless, because you can't calculate the amount of hate each ability provides.

Umm. . .

You sure about that?
09-07-2011, 08:33 PM
Holyomen

Quote:

Originally Posted by KumaAkuma

Played both Marauder and Gladiator on Ogre: Marauder always wins.

I have the same experience.
Always seem easier to keep hate with MRD.
GLA on the other hands needs Accomplice like a mofo.
09-07-2011, 08:33 PM
Holyomen

Quote:

Originally Posted by Viridiana

Umm. . .

You sure about that?

Nice find.
I'd like to see numbers for weapon skills though.
09-07-2011, 09:52 PM
Viridiana

Quote:

Originally Posted by Holyomen

Nice find.
I'd like to see numbers for weapon skills though.

For most of the weapon skills, it's just whatever damage is done. He does admit he hasn't tested the ones that specify that they add enmity, though.
09-07-2011, 09:54 PM
KumaAkuma

Just looking at Disorient already makes me question that table.
09-08-2011, 08:03 AM
Viridiana

Quote:

Originally Posted by KumaAkuma

Just looking at Disorient already makes me question that table.

Well, go out and test it yourself, then. Use Disorient on an enemy, and let a mage poke at it until they take aggro. . .
09-08-2011, 08:08 AM
Rentahamster

Quote:

Originally Posted by KumaAkuma

Just looking at Disorient already makes me question that table.

Disorient generates a decent amount of hate.
09-08-2011, 08:10 AM
Pulseczar

My MRD holds hate a lot better than my GLA. My MRD can also take more of a beating than my GLD. <3 Disorient!
09-09-2011, 02:12 AM
kro

MRD wins on Ogre because the majority of his attacks are TP moves and you are allowed to be stationary the entire fight. This negates the advantages of a shield (blocking normal attack dmg and landing Phalanx) and highlights the advantages of steadfast (increased parry rate, enmity, and fracture).

GLA wins on Batraal because many of his attacks are regular attacks and you are constantly required to move around dodging ghosts and lasers. This highlights the advantages of a shield and negates the advantages of steadfast.

In general, GLA > MRD for pure survivability (shield, native Sentinel, high mp pool) while MRD > GLA for higher enmity and damage output (steadfast, better WS, high HP). But other than those minor differences both classes do just fine and will probably have a nearly identical skillset.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KumaAkuma

Just looking at Disorient already makes me question that table.

Disorient has nearly half the recast time as Provoke but more than half the enmity generation. I'd say that's pretty darn good.
09-09-2011, 02:52 AM
Sigmakan

From what I've seen, if disorient doesnt land it generates no hate. So thats really the only downside to disorient.
09-09-2011, 04:11 AM
syntaxlies

Quote:

Originally Posted by Holyomen

Sorry to disappoint, this isn't another complaint thread.

Who can generate the most hate?
Let's take a look at the match-up.

Gladiator
Heavy Slash
Heavy Stab
Provoke
Phalanx
Riot Blade

Marauder
Full Swing
Steadfast
Defender
Disorient
Warmonger
Storm's Path
Intimidation

In a practical situation both will be able to use many skills that the other class has, so I highlighted the ones that are unique.

Although Riot Blade builds a ton of hate, it cannot be used often due to it's recast time and the 2000+ TP cost. So Marauder has the upper hand using Storm's Path with it's 1500 TP cost and 10 second recast.

But, if the Gladiator is able to time their shield skills so at least one of them is always up, they may actually not only build more hate with Phalanx, but also out damage a Marauder. Phalanx comes at a mere cost of 250TP and a 5 second recast for a decent amount of damage. Although it may not build more hate than Storm's Path, it could be used much more often during a fight.

So in the battle of GLA Vs MRD, the Sentinel wins!

forgot sentinel and war drum
09-09-2011, 04:14 AM
syntaxlies

Quote:

Originally Posted by kro

MRD wins on Ogre because the majority of his attacks are TP moves and you are allowed to be stationary the entire fight. This negates the advantages of a shield (blocking normal attack dmg and landing Phalanx) and highlights the advantages of steadfast (increased parry rate, enmity, and fracture).

GLA wins on Batraal because many of his attacks are regular attacks and you are constantly required to move around dodging ghosts and lasers. This highlights the advantages of a shield and negates the advantages of steadfast.

In general, GLA > MRD for pure survivability (shield, native Sentinel, high mp pool) while MRD > GLA for higher enmity and damage output (steadfast, better WS, high HP). But other than those minor differences both classes do just fine and will probably have a nearly identical skillset.

Disorient has nearly half the recast time as Provoke but more than half the enmity generation. I'd say that's pretty darn good.

not to mention that glad has all the extra stats that come with he shield.
09-09-2011, 03:00 PM
Holyomen

Quote:

Originally Posted by syntaxlies

forgot sentinel and war drum

Sentinel only increases defense.
09-09-2011, 09:28 PM
KumaAkuma

I guess I have to reevaluate Disorient, but to me it seemed to give far lass hate

Quote:

GLA wins on Batraal because many of his attacks are regular attacks and you are constantly required to move around dodging ghosts and lasers. This highlights the advantages of a shield and negates the advantages of steadfast.

Thought you only blocked from your front side?
09-10-2011, 01:01 AM
syntaxlies

Quote:

Originally Posted by Holyomen

Sentinel only increases defense.

sentinal:
Thwart attacks to fluster your enemies, reducing damage dealt to you and slowing loss of enmity
09-10-2011, 08:53 AM
Holyomen

Quote:

Originally Posted by syntaxlies

sentinal:
Thwart attacks to fluster your enemies, reducing damage dealt to you and slowing loss of enmity

Slowing loss of enmity was taken out in 1.18
check it again http://ffxiv.yg.com/skill/sentinel?id=26703
09-16-2011, 07:46 PM
Rogue

in the case of multiple mobs MRD wins handsdown... infact in this case i would say MRD is a requirement because it is close to impossible to keep reliable enmity on multiple mobs (3+) with gladiator (post 1.18)

the best example is probably mosshorn HNM, in which case it is ideal to have one gladiator tank mosshorn and a mrd tank his minions.. otherwise you will need a party full of gladiators.

on the subject of single targets- a good gladiator should never have a problem keeping hate, so in terms of damage mitigation a gladiator will always win

however, you could also say that if a MRD can keep more hate this will free up the archers and thams to really let loose, that is really micro-managing though.

to sum up, gladiator and mrd are both excellent tanks and anyone serious about tanking should rank both jobs and excell in all tanking situations.
09-20-2011, 03:48 PM
Xatsh

Mar holds hate much much easier especially on multiple targets. Glad on most mobs negates much more dmg takes because of shield buffs, but it takes alot longer to build hate.

Which one is better purely depends on what you are doing and what you are fighting.