Im sick of

I'm sick of healers blaming tanks because they spam medic and heal and pull agro. No matter how hard I try I cant pull it back if you are running around instead of towards me, I cant pull it back do to your bad decisions. Stop spamming heal if you are pulling the agro, I can pull it back if you quit your bad decisions.

If you think you can tank better than me, please try other than that STFU.

The warrior is clearly IMO the hard mode of all classes. I watched friends play both healer and DPS and I was amazed at how easy they had it compared to a tank. A tank has to control the battle while keeping everything on the battlefield in check, if anything goes wrong people are quick to blame the tank.

Of course all this is my opinion but as a warrior I had to say it as I see it.

Running away from the tank with aggro is a common mistake..

I am confused on how you say you lose aggro to a healer.
What content are you talking about? low level or high level?

In general I'd say you shouldn't be losing aggro to healing, especially in high level dungeons I cannot remember the last time I pulled off only by healing.

WAR hardmode of all classes... unarguably harder to play than a PLD in raids but in dungeons hardmode of all classes... no.

That may be the case Spoekes but I've run into quite a few bad healers who loooooooove to overheal. The act of healing itself doesn't pull aggro, its when you continue to heal and it becomes overhealing that aggro is pulled.

Spoekes, I'll use LotA as an example. Though this goes for any fight. And also not just for healers. This happens with DPS as well.

I get within Shield Lob distance of KB. Due to lag, reflexes and movement I may very well hit face pull distance. As I was running, a healer tossed Medica 2 on the Party just to get ready for the floor DoT. Or a ranged DPS proceeds to unload into their rotation with damage buffs. Before I can get in position or even get more than Fast Blade off, KB has snacked on a Healer and is looking at either another healer or DPS. Voke, still try to get in position. But seconds after that Voke, someone else that has unloaded is going.

I know we don't have it here. But Sunders people!

Yeah LotA, basically all 3 tower raids, are a real adventure sometimes.
But I don't think he is talking about tower raids and fails like medica 2 pre pull, that's why I was asking where this happens to him.

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Originally Posted by Morvik358

Spoekes, I'll use LotA as an example. Though this goes for any fight. And also not just for healers. This happens with DPS as well.

I get within Shield Lob distance of KB. Due to lag, reflexes and movement I may very well hit face pull distance. As I was running, a healer tossed Medica 2 on the Party just to get ready for the floor DoT. Or a ranged DPS proceeds to unload into their rotation with damage buffs. Before I can get in position or even get more than Fast Blade off, KB has snacked on a Healer and is looking at either another healer or DPS. Voke, still try to get in position. But seconds after that Voke, someone else that has unloaded is going.

I know we don't have it here. But Sunders people!

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This is something I am going to comment upon. Provoke,early on,is kind of wasteful. In the first 10 seconds of an encounter, Shield Lob is enough to reclaim aggro. I reserve Provoke when I derped, died and wanna grab aggro as soon as I respawn

Muahah, creepy whm. They'd be better as Sch if they want precasts that much :)
Your post said it all. I wrote a small guide for my FC about many of those things you mentionned, so I pasted it on Squenix too, so every healer will hopefully benefit from it : http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...hat-not-to-do.

ive been in a couple of gar hm and if you got a white mage spamming med 2 before u can pull u wont get agro very quickly, especially if you are in sword oath.
usually they are trolls who just spam med 2 till they are out of mana, just voke and make sure u hit with roh combo and u should be fine after that. also u can unclick any regen or med 2 you have on you.

Hlr can pull agro with a mis timed/late aoe heal on a spawn add, t13 shadow example, if you hit the mob as it pops immediately and dont clip your animation with a follow up. Then yes I can see why you would lose agro. Both are at fault

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Originally Posted by sleepymountain

I'm sick of healers blaming tanks (...)

(...)A tank has to control the battle while keeping everything on the battlefield in check(...)

(...)people are quick to blame the tank

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A) Let them. They will figure it out eventually, and you don't have to take it personally or agree with them.
B) The beauty of tanking! An experienced tank usually has great situational awareness.
C) Refer back to "A"

You can look at criticism in a detached manner. If you think it is valid, learn from it, improve your game. If you don't think it is valid, no need to prove yourself right, just do your thing =)
I find the WAR class to have a steeper learning curve than the PLD class but both learning curves are still independent from Tanking. What I mean by this, is that it is possible to play both PLD and WAR with great skill, and still be clueless in a group situation. Experience, awareness, and basic understanding of other classes can be great tools.

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Originally Posted by Morvik358

Spoekes, I'll use LotA as an example. Though this goes for any fight. And also not just for healers. This happens with DPS as well.

I get within Shield Lob distance of KB. Due to lag, reflexes and movement I may very well hit face pull distance. As I was running, a healer tossed Medica 2 on the Party just to get ready for the floor DoT. Or a ranged DPS proceeds to unload into their rotation with damage buffs. Before I can get in position or even get more than Fast Blade off, KB has snacked on a Healer and is looking at either another healer or DPS. Voke, still try to get in position. But seconds after that Voke, someone else that has unloaded is going.

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Provoke on its own is basically worthless, it puts you at max enmity +1, so if there's any DOTs or HOTs ticking you're going to lose aggro straight back where it came from. What you should be doing is prepping a Halone combo, then provoking and immediately hitting Halone so you get on top of the aggro table and then add a big pile of threat straight away.

And if you're grouped with people who like to go in hard from word go on the DPS, you need to do the same. Fight or Flight, Shield Lob, Circle, Spirits Within and then into your normal rotation, and even the most determined DPS will have a hard time peeling the boss off of you.

I don't know how people don't understand how tanks can lose aggro. It's not only the tank's responsibility. If the healer (WHM) is spaming Medica/Medica II and Cure II/III, especially if they have PoM on, then they will pull hate. It's not always the tank's fault they lose aggro, regardless of content.

Cure/ heal bomb party then when boss or mob is aggro'd on to u THEN use shroud of saints to shed off the #1 emnity position to some unfortunate dps lol.
Hahahahahahahahaha

Don't understand how whms dunno how to do that.
Its like basic whm knowledge.
Heal bombing = gonna take an mp dive = obvious jump in emnity -> ofc shroud of saints is like the best possible thing u can use.

Its a two way street guys.

Yes there are tons of healers who are pretty shit and just unnecessarily pump heals, or heal just before you pull and see the need to have HoTs ticking all the time especially just before an add spawns.

But i've also seen some tanks who wanna pull beyond their means, not pop def CDs and then bitch and moan because the healing necessary > their aggro production

Six of one, half a dozen of the other.

I've lost aggro plenty of times to a whm getting a critical heal during a spam.

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Originally Posted by Avyiur

That may be the case Spoekes but I've run into quite a few bad healers who loooooooove to overheal. The act of healing itself doesn't pull aggro, its when you continue to heal and it becomes overhealing that aggro is pulled.

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Healing and overhealing generate the same amount of aggro.

Unless a tank is close to my gear level I will pull hate, in a dungeon, as whm, it's my main and it's very overgeared for dungeons. But knowing this it's MY responsibility to keep everyone alive. If I pull hate as healer, I have to control the situation. War can grab hate easier off me than Pld, but pld can cover too and not force me to cure bomb myself. But if I am going all out, I cast 3 spells and holy until everythin is dead. Regen plus medica tics are about equal to a level appropriate cure 1 so I will take hate, the best thing to do os cover, and make sure that you don't die trying to get hate back by running into AOEs because as soon as I hit shroud, everything is going to eat your face. I have tanked for bad heals and healed bad tanks. If you do what you needed to then it's not your fault. Big hate grabs are all centered on the tank. Big cures are not centered on the healer, there I no reason to point enemy mobs at a healer and none to run away from a tank.

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Originally Posted by PetiteMalFleur

Healing and overhealing generate the same amount of aggro.

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Uuuh, well, yea...
But while Healing generates Aggro... Overhealing generates unnecessary Aggro...

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Originally Posted by Arkenne

Uuuh, well, yea...
But while Healing generates Aggro... Overhealing generates unnecessary Aggro...

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This is true and something all players should be made aware of, especially healers. However, my reply was in response to the comment that necessary healing generates no emnity at all. I assume Avyiur just needed to clarify their message and how you worded it is what they actually meant.

i don't often have any real issues with healers.. ill start on dps in a minute.. i make it a rule to almost always check the healer before i start the run that is your job to gauge how much you can pull.. the odd one who decides to pop heals right as i pull get agro and run around like chickens with there head cut off make life hard..healers in general are now more skilled and good at there class.. dps on the other hand far out I've gotten everything from a mnk who informed me they could tank dd didn't do to bad till the last boss (aww unlucky mnk can't really fully tank low lvl runs) but what pisses me of beyond believe is the dps who take it apon themselves to attack what they feel like while I'm trying to chase there agro bards/ranged are usually the worse cause they stand there and try to kill it instead of just running over to me to grab agro back no they just stand there like idiots…when i run out of flash or any other enmity skill your screwed.. we all know what ct st and wod is like when you get a bunch of either fate lvlers or just plain idiots that are high geared thinking they can ignore mechanics .. YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE.. FAIL

I am both WHM (i122) and WAR (i130).

The thing about aggro is controlled by all, as a whitemage I can be a jerk/troll if I cast Medica2/Regen a split of a second before a pull. Same can happen if a DPS do massive damage on the mob before I (warrior) can establish a good base of hate. Everyone can control hate in some sort of way, I know several BLMs & BRDs that switch target if they see thier hate-o-meter turning towords red, to reduce the aggro. On the otherside there are the exact opposite that want to suck the hell of HP of the mob they get over 9000 hate and then complains about Tank or Mostly the healer cause he couldn't heal.

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Originally Posted by PetiteMalFleur

Counter comment

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Oh, ok, sorry, skimmed on the posts, didnt actually read it well enough, so my bad there XP