Why Attach Horn Style to the Face?

I absolutely love the new race! I am very excited to play it. However, I am disappointed that the horns are connected to a face style, rather than being able to pick your face and horn style separately. Can this be adjusted? Is this just a limitation for the Benchmark?

Also would like to request that perhaps we can have shades of black and shades of white for the horn colors. Many of us pay a lot of attention to our glamor, and go through great pains to colorize our schemes.

Thank you so much for releasing the Benchmark!

Don't get me wrong, I am enjoying it. Just some general feedback from a few people who are experimenting with character creation right now.

Thanks!

The awkward hourglass shape of the males' bodies make them look awful in virtually all armors too :-/

I agree with you about the horns being attached to the face-type, that's severely disappointing.

So is the lack of horn coloration.

And that we still don't have ANY new beards after all this time.

Adding to the beards, a goatee would've looked awesome on this race.

Or any more facial features or tattoos for other races.

Lastly, that we can't change skin-color in game without paying for a Fantasia.

It sucks if say I wanted to try out red skin that I'll color-clash with a ton of gear with no option to change it later without paying a premium.

Also, look how close these two are to one another.....

http://i.imgur.com/lsRThrE.png

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Originally Posted by SongJoohee

Yeah, when you aim to make 2 characters look identical they're going to look similar regardless of race...

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Eh, just pointing it out. Sure, an Au Ra can be made to appear very different from a Hyur but the skeleton appearing so similar is disappointing.

I just wish they'd legitimately created a more differentiated race in terms of build/physique but that's just me.

I was going to make a thread about this too. I have to demand/insist that they separate the horns from the face. There's horns that I absolutely love on a face that I don't want to use. There's a better face that I love but the horns aren't great especially after seeing the other horns I really want to use.
Not to mention the scales are tied to the face which is fine, but with the horns also tied to the face, that limits our customization a lot, especially on the most important part of a character, the face.

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Originally Posted by Chibilidawg

Also, look how close these two are to one another.....

http://i.imgur.com/lsRThrE.png

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Yeah, when you aim to make 2 characters look identical they're going to look similar regardless of race. Same can be said for every race in the game. Unless you're just pointing to the pose, which are very different.

They have a tonne of different choices in the benchmark and you can definitely make characters that look absolutely different from any of the other races in the game.

Meh. It's the same thing as Miqo'te having highlight-able tail tips locked to certain tail types. Or different (just black I think, but still) colored ears being locked to certain hairstyles. Both are infuriatingly pointless, neither has been changed since launch. :/

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Originally Posted by BreathlessTao

Meh. It's the same thing as Miqo'te having highlight-able tail tips locked to certain tail types. Or different (just black I think, but still) colored ears being locked to certain hairstyles. Both are infuriatingly pointless, neither has been changed since launch. :/

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It's a bit different then geometry stuck in the side of the head. They should be able to just be stuck in any head. What you mention is color variations which are based on textures that can't be seperated out as easily

I think every race has something like this that is locked to certain faces. Since male highlander is what i messed with most I know the beard options are locked to certain faces which sucks. Everyone with a certain kind of facial hair all have the same face to go with it.

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Originally Posted by Chibilidawg

Also, look how close these two are to one another.....

http://i.imgur.com/lsRThrE.png



Eh, just pointing it out. Sure, an Au Ra can be made to appear very different from a Hyur but the skeleton appearing so similar is disappointing.

I just wish they'd legitimately created a more differentiated race in terms of build/physique but that's just me.

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If you can't see some distinct differences between the two despite trying to make them look as similar as possible you are just ignoring them because you don't want to see them. Au'Ras are slimmer (overall), different pose structure (back and legs are most noticable), while a thinner waist they have HIPS unlike midlander and miqo'te.
That said, it's most likely that they used the hyur or miqo'te model as a base and altered it to their needs and that was pretty much exactly what was expected ever since they showed them. Similarities are bound to exist.

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Originally Posted by IveraIvalice

It's a bit different then geometry stuck in the side of the head. They should be able to just be stuck in any head. What you mention is color variations which are based on textures that can't be seperated out as easily

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Pretty sure it could have been separated as easily as all the hairstyles, they could've designed them like that from the start: want it, it's there; don't want it, no need to bother with it. One of those things that should be universal across the board, so to say, but for some reason SE decided to just lock it.

And I have a bet if they had to explain it, that reason would be "to save bandwidth" - ie. instead of having a number of combination for two or more different categories, there's only one number: a closed set of choices within one category.

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Originally Posted by BreathlessTao

Pretty sure it could have been separated as easily as all the hairstyles, they could've designed them like that from the start: want it, it's there; don't want it, no need to bother with it. One of those things that should be universal across the board, so to say, but for some reason SE decided to just lock it.

And I have a bet if they had to explain it, that reason would be "to save bandwidth" - ie. instead of having a number of combination for two or more different categories, there's only one number: a closed set of choices within one category.

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That is what I was thinking. I really hope this is just a limitation of the Benchmark.

Why? Sent some stuff like facile hair locked on face choice?

It has been this way for a long time now.

It reminds me of DA:I Qunari having horn type locked to hair style.

It just must must be easier, for some reason. Not that I don't agree it wouldn't be nice to make it seperate.

In general the character customization isn't focusing on the selling features of the race such as horn style, horn and scale color and face type. I really want to understand better why we are limited in these options.

I don't consider this the same as the other races having locked features to select faces. Those features are always small and while it is the same type of issue, I wouldn't compare them at all because the horns are a huge part of what makes the race. Literally they are huge pieces of geometry as opposed to a color difference or a small tattoo on a face or something similar that the other races had locked. It's the same but it's not even comparable with how drastically it changes the character.
I mean the horns show through every helmet too

It seems that each race can only have so many of customization points, and for some reason, when deciding what these would be, SE decided that the horns could just be lumped in with face type. :confused:

Personally, I do not think this was a good decision. I can't speak for anyone else, but I'd have preferred "horn type" and "horn size" as customization points instead of "limbic ring" and "limbic ring color" (though I do like these), since we obviously can't have it all when it comes to customization options.

I'd also like to toss in that the horns need a scale (as in size) slider. Especially for the males. Current sizes need to be the maximum, with a much smaller variant at the end of the slider. Seriously, These giant horns block their faces from any angle accept from dead on.

I really wanted a horn customization with asymmetric sized horns so I could call him Little Horn.

They had to attach the horns to the face, due to how the gear models work in this game. Otherwise there will be an issue with big holes in Au'Ri hats and it would look very bad, and take more development time. This doesn't even include the potential issues with hair. I'm almost certain each hair had to be altered per Au'ri horn type. This means they already effectively put 4 times the effort than what the other races had to deal with.

Many games already do this: Tera, Blade N Soul, and other random korean mmos.

I just want to move the horns around to the face of my choosing. There's horns I love on a face I hate and a face I love with horns that are meh. And if I can't make a character that I love in every way I won't use it. That sucks because I do like the new race but if there's something I can't stand about it I'll just stick to my miqote ._.

I liked the OP.

Kind of off topic, but if we get to choose horn type could we have some more face marking options for Miqote? will we get more options for all races? Au Ra character creation looks awesome compared to other races..

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Originally Posted by Mardel

They had to attach the horns to the face, due to how the gear models work in this game. Otherwise there will be an issue with big holes in Au'Ri hats and it would look very bad, and take more development time. This doesn't even include the potential issues with hair. I'm almost certain each hair had to be altered per Au'ri horn type. This means they already effectively put 4 times the effort than what the other races had to deal with.

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That doesn't make any sense, gear models have nothing to do with the horns, they all come out at the same place on the head. The gear doesn't change for every face that's selected, it changes for every race, so there wouldn't be any holes. Also I didn't see any hair altered by changing the horns, they went right through on every hair style even while changing the face/horns

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Originally Posted by IveraIvalice

That doesn't make any sense, gear models have nothing to do with the horns, they all come out at the same place on the head. The gear doesn't change for every face that's selected, it changes for every race, so there wouldn't be any holes. Also I didn't see any hair altered by changing the horns, they went right through on every hair style even while changing the face/horns

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Yes horn and gear models do make a difference in the end due to some form of clipping. Imagine the super thick horns wearing a bard hat that curve downward vs backward. Another reason for this design choice is to save data, the more combinations possible for shape of face/hair/horns/eyes the Au'ri have the more data that is needed for that information.(I'm sure this was considered as well.)

SE must have been like
"Are you not entertained?!"
The ppl who tried it r like
"No."
SE is then like
" :( damn, back to the drawing boards "
Then a sudden oh wait...
No time cuz 3.0 is more important than small character details lol

Ya think of each horn/head as a shape so currently we have

Circle/Circle
Square/Square
Triangle/Triangle
Rectangle/Rectangle

Now see if you do Circle/Square that means the overall shape of the horns/head would conflict with the fitting of certain headgear making it harder to not cause clipping. The best way to look at it is to understand that because they were focusing on having horns not clip with headgear/look right they most likely decided that the best way they could do this would be to have horns/face be connected.

Since in that sense it's easier to keep 4 faces in check when keeping headgear in mind for helmets than it would be to have to do a quality check for 16 different customization options.

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Originally Posted by Airget

Ya think of each horn/head as a shape so currently we have

Circle/Circle
Square/Square
Triangle/Triangle
Rectangle/Rectangle

Now see if you do Circle/Square that means the overall shape of the horns/head would conflict with the fitting of certain headgear making it harder to not cause clipping. The best way to look at it is to understand that because they were focusing on having horns not clip with headgear/look right they most likely decided that the best way they could do this would be to have horns/face be connected.

Since in that sense it's easier to keep 4 faces in check when keeping headgear in mind for helmets than it would be to have to do a quality check for 16 different customization options.

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This guy gets it ^
It's like you used logic or something and on the internet at that!

SE: Sorry but limitations!

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Originally Posted by Fleur

It seems that each race can only have so many of customization points, and for some reason, when deciding what these would be, SE decided that the horns could just be lumped in with face type. :confused:

Personally, I do not think this was a good decision. I can't speak for anyone else, but I'd have preferred "horn type" and "horn size" as customization points instead of "limbic ring" and "limbic ring color" (though I do like these), since we obviously can't have it all when it comes to customization options.

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Very much this. I like to see my face and take pictures from all angles. I'm struggling with changing to Au Ra because the horn/face being tied together coupled with the massive size of said horn styles blocking out my face unless I center the camera. And on top of that, the one horn style I really wanted forces me to have thick scales jutting out of my chin and that's not where I'd have them be. :confused:

I don't mind the horns being locked but the extra horns in some of the hairstyles not matching the color of your main horns/scales is an OCD meltdown waiting to happen.
Example:
http://puu.sh/ht3h8/f360c384f7.jpg

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Originally Posted by Mardel

Yes horn and gear models do make a difference in the end due to some form of clipping. Imagine the super thick horns wearing a bard hat that curve downward vs backward. Another reason for this design choice is to save data, the more combinations possible for shape of face/hair/horns/eyes the Au'ri have the more data that is needed for that information.(I'm sure this was considered as well.)

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they make a difference before the models are created during the planning stages. what you are describing is them making a variation of every piece of gear depending on what horns the character is using which is completely wrong. they do not change the gear to make room for the horns they make the horns with the intention of not being too intrusive on planned gear. there are not 4 variations of a bard hat just to be used if your using a specific horn type, thats not how game development works, that would be extremely inefficient.

hopefully that point is clearer now and i can say that since the horns are already there and they come out at the same point in the head, and it will not cause any issues with gear. they should be able to make the horns available separately.

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Originally Posted by Airget

Ya think of each horn/head as a shape so currently we have

Circle/Circle
Square/Square
Triangle/Triangle
Rectangle/Rectangle

Now see if you do Circle/Square that means the overall shape of the horns/head would conflict with the fitting of certain headgear making it harder to not cause clipping. The best way to look at it is to understand that because they were focusing on having horns not clip with headgear/look right they most likely decided that the best way they could do this would be to have horns/face be connected.

Since in that sense it's easier to keep 4 faces in check when keeping headgear in mind for helmets than it would be to have to do a quality check for 16 different customization options.

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i understand what your saying but thats not how that works. they can change the shape of the helmets to fit the head yes but they had this preplanned from the start, before they made the characters in the first place that the horns would protrude from the same place on the head so they dont have to make any variations to helmets on account of the horns. yes they can make adjustments to the helmet size for head shape but the horns wouldnt affect that.
its the equivalent of not allowing us to change tails size or shape because they would need to make variations of gear to match that. they could do that but that would be inefficient and a waste of memory so they dont, and thats why its not an issue to make different tails or customize the shapes and sizes of elezen or lalafell ears.

If there was any reason why they wouldnt be able to seperate out the ears it would be because they modeled the face, horns and scales together on one set of geometry (using the same UV space) and so textures would be combined.
That would be horribly planned then if they did it that way

tl;dr
the horns dont affect existing gear because the gear was created with the horns in mind. they do not make variations of gear to be used with different combinations of head and horns.
the horns will clip or not clip through gear and hair together, not on an individual basis. ex. all 4 horns will clip on this bard hat or all will not clip on this bard hat because the hat isnt changing, just like they did with hair
so swapping out horns wouldnt be an issue because of gear.

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Originally Posted by Mardel

This guy gets it ^
It's like you used logic or something and on the internet at that!

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You can use logic on the internet and be wrong. Im using logic based on real life and experience

They really dropped the ball with the horns.
I'm lucky to of liked my Au Ra's face and the horn combo so I don't have much to complain but wow...
They said we'd have more options but obviously the only thing that's different to me seems to be the amount of skin colours.
Not even able to have a slight variation in scale and scale colours are sad. I literally removed like a tiny piece of scale from my forehead and chin.
s: And every single one of us have the same exact horn/scale colour...Not much room for uniqueness in that area.

I was a bit sad to see that the horns are not independent. Would loved to have seen more than 4 variations also. I think certain faces (male #4) may end up being skipped, which has great horn style, but the face is dopey and depressed.

"Hi guys!!

you know who's to blame for this issue! It's me!!"

http://i.imgur.com/2Nos6VD.png