DoT questions

Don't know where to post this, so I would just put this where it's most relevant.

1) How do DoT ticks work? I know its 1 tick every 3 secs and each tick delivers the potency amount of damage but overall, how much say... a DoT that lasts 15 seconds with a potency of 30?

2) Is overlapping really that bad? I can't really snag the point in which a DoT finishes and a new one should be applied, so I will always apply it before the last tick, or the last 3 secs of the DoT, so it will continue on.

3) Can DoT's crit?

4) If a buff is applied before the DoT is applied but the buff vanishes before the DoT finishes, does the rest of the DoT's tick get affected?

5) While we are on the topic of DoT, how much does poison potions affect gameplay? Is it good?

1) 15 seconds divided by three is 5 ticks of 30, 5 times 30 is 150. So if it runs the full duration (give or take) you get 150 potency.

2) It's very situational. Generally, you want to clip ("overlap," as you called it) as close to it running out as you can, but within the last 3 seconds is usually close enough. At that point, you're deciding between a tick lost to overlap and a tick lost to not refreshing in time.

3) Yep. Otherwise, BRDs would never get River of Blood procs.

4) Whatever buffs (and certain debuffs) are up when the dot is applied will affect the entire duration.

5) It's a few extra dps, but most groups will only use it for progression.

6)
Do ticks have a chance to crit
or
are ticks all crits if the spell is a crit when it is cast ?

Nice, thanks.

So, in fact DoT actually deliver the full potency over a period of time. If I hit that 15 seconds DoT, potency 30 = 150 potency for a total time of 15 seconds?

What about auto-attacks? I know that AA potency depends on the weapon's damage but it hits around +-3 secs right?

I'm thinking in terms of SMNs, this is quite a good thing because only SMNs would have an "AA" spell called Ruin (Cast spell for +-3 secs, comparable to AA) with a flat potency of 80.

So if I apply that Dot (30 potency) and cast ruin right after (80 potency), for every tick I am in fact doing a total of 110 potency for 15 seoconds MINUS one tick of ruin (supposing that DoT ticks RIGHT ON THE SECOND IT IS APPLIED).

So... 550 - 80 = 470 potency. A huge improvement.

Therefore, 5 ticks of DoTs + 4 ruins would result in that. But what if my spell speed is less than 3 seconds, say... 2.5 seconds, I would sneak in approximately half a ruin right? It would hit it back up to 550 potency.

DoTs are on a Global 3s tick timer. As you said, you have a DoT with a timer of 15s, so you'd get 15/3= 5 DoT ticks. But, as it's on a global timer, your DoT ticks could be at 1,4,7,10,13s... 2,5,8,11,14s... 3,6,9,12,15s. Because of how this works, you have a chance of "clipping" a DoT tick each time you reapply it and your chance increases the closer you apply it to 3s, within that 0-3s window. Applying a DoT tick at 1.5s left means you have a 50% chance of missing out on additional potency from your last DoT application, which could of been spent on another ability. This only matters in the long run, and because of this, Skill/spellspeed is valued a lot less.

Buffs in this game are "snapshotted". The only buffs that apply are those which you currently had up when applying the DoT.

And Poison Potions are pretty cool. I personally don't use them, progression groups love them. Up to you if you want to use them.

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Originally Posted by Koyuki38

6)
Do ticks have a chance to crit
or
are ticks all crits if the spell is a crit when it is cast ?

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Each tick is its own chance to crit. The only exception is a NIN using Kassatsu (force next Ninjutsu to crit) followed by Doton, which will make all Doton ticks crit.

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Originally Posted by elemental10

Nice, thanks.

So, in fact DoT actually deliver the full potency over a period of time. If I hit that 15 seconds DoT, potency 30 = 150 potency for a total time of 15 seconds?

What about auto-attacks? I know that AA potency depends on the weapon's damage but it hits around +-3 secs right?

I'm thinking in terms of SMNs, this is quite a good thing because only SMNs would have an "AA" spell called Ruin (Cast spell for +-3 secs, comparable to AA) with a flat potency of 80.

So if I apply that Dot (30 potency) and cast ruin right after (80 potency), for every tick I am in fact doing a total of 110 potency for 15 seoconds MINUS one tick of ruin (supposing that DoT ticks RIGHT ON THE SECOND IT IS APPLIED).

So... 330 - 80 = 250 potency. 100 potency more than only with DoT. An improvement.

Therefore, 5 ticks of DoTs + 4 ruins would result in that. But what if my spell speed is less than 3 seconds, say... 2.5 seconds, I would sneak in approximately half a ruin right?

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Auto attacks are, roughly speaking, 100 potency per three seconds, regardless of the delay stat.

Also, you flubbed your math there. Just the four casts of Ruin would be 320 potency, plus the 150 potency of the dot. Then figure that you should be able to fit another Ruin in there (because it's a 2.5 cast instead of 3.0) for 400 potency.

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

Each tick is its own chance to crit. The only exception is a NIN using Kassatsu (force next Ninjutsu to crit) followed by Doton, which will make all Doton ticks crit.



Auto attacks are, roughly speaking, 100 potency per three seconds, regardless of the delay stat.

Also, you flubbed your math there. Just the four casts of Ruin would be 320 potency, plus the 150 potency of the dot. Then figure that you should be able to fit another Ruin in there (because it's a 2.5 cast instead of 3.0) for 400 potency.

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Yeah, sorry about that.

Regardless, my argument that SMNs are doing AA with Ruin is correct yes?

So, that Spell Speed proc is useful, right?

Dots stack to one tick. People forget that measma, bio 2, bio, and measma two all go on same click If on at same time.
Shadowflare so it's own.
So if you put say bio on you see every tick is let's say 150 dam,
But put all them on you see the number every tick is now 800 dam each 3 seconds tell one falls off.

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Originally Posted by elemental10

Yeah, sorry about that.

Regardless, my argument that SMNs are doing AA with Ruin is correct yes?

So, that Spell Speed proc is useful, right?

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Well, SMN actually has an auto-attack, too, where they whack the enemy with their books. But that mostly only happens if you're not actively casting. So, Bio, Ruin II, off-GCD abilities, etc.

But in a broad sense, Ruin could be compared to auto-attack, yeah. Spell speed proc is still pretty useless, though. :p

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

Well, SMN actually has an auto-attack, too, where they whack the enemy with their books. But that mostly only happens if you're not actively casting. So, Bio, Ruin II, off-GCD abilities, etc.

But in a broad sense, Ruin could be compared to auto-attack, yeah. Spell speed proc is still pretty useless, though. :p

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http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2.../Okay_meme.jpg

Interestingly, this means that if you're OOM, the best bet is to sit on the butt and just poke with your book.

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Originally Posted by elemental10

http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2.../Okay_meme.jpg

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If you're really attached to spell speed, I have good news! Well, tentative good news anyway. Yoshi-P says they'll be changing it with 3.0 to make it more useful! More information to follow, whenever they finally decide what that means. . .

I'm bringing back this thread

Because Spell Speed becomes useful again comes Heavensward

https://stuffmysisterswilllike.files...ictory-kid.jpg

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Originally Posted by elemental10

I'm bringing back this thread

Because Spell Speed becomes useful again comes Heavensward

https://stuffmysisterswilllike.files...ictory-kid.jpg

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From what I understand the spell speed fix is going to be rather counter intuitive. The way dot ticks work in this game with everything being processed according to a server-side clock every 3 seconds means that spell speed can't directly affect the speed of the ticks (unless they rewrote the entire mechanics behind dots). Instead what we're likely to get is a frontloading of the damage whereby the damage of each tick is increased proportional to spell speed in such a way as to simulate a faster tick speed. The overall effect should be the same though, just more complex than it needs to be due to 'server limitations'.

My one question at this point is, if they implement it as I suspect they will, will dots still run for their full duration with higher tick damage or will they end prematurely after dealing the total damage they ordinarily would (thus dealing the same damage per MP cost, just faster)? The former would potentially make spell speed our most potent stat but it would seem a little unbalanced to me.

Either way I'll be happy.

Spell Speed will now determine your ticks damage yeah.

So..... WOOHOO

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Originally Posted by Alberel

My one question at this point is, if they implement it as I suspect they will, will dots still run for their full duration with higher tick damage or will they end prematurely after dealing the total damage they ordinarily would (thus dealing the same damage per MP cost, just faster)? The former would potentially make spell speed our most potent stat but it would seem a little unbalanced to me.

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Changing DoT duration would alter rotations and increase complexity--not just for players, but for the devs in terms of balancing. I have no doubt DoT duration will remain fixed and the only change we'll see is increased damage/tic.

Which is super boring. Server tick is a terrible, terrible system.

For instance, bards get screwed unless they also increase RoB proc chance scaling with spell speed, which also adds new problems.

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Originally Posted by Almalexia

Changing DoT duration would alter rotations and increase complexity--not just for players, but for the devs in terms of balancing. I have no doubt DoT duration will remain fixed and the only change we'll see is increased damage/tic.

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Originally Posted by pandabearcat

Which is super boring. Server tick is a terrible, terrible system.

For instance, bards get screwed unless they also increase RoB proc chance scaling with spell speed, which also adds new problems.

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Yeah, I really wish they'd move from the server tick system, even though I'm not getting my hopes up. Having SS affect dots as a second determination is just. . .not thematic at all.

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

4) Whatever buffs (and certain debuffs) are up when the dot is applied will affect the entire duration.

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Let's say I use Cleric Stance, cast Aero, and switch back, will the Dot apply the damage with 'full cleric power' every tick? Same goes for Raging strikes?
If I use Bio, Miasma and Bio II, and then cast Raging Strikes to start spamming Ruin, will it be 'wasted'? Should I cast it before the Dots?

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Originally Posted by Roxas_Andrade

Let's say I use Cleric Stance, cast Aero, and switch back, will the Dot apply the damage with 'full cleric power' every tick? Same goes for Raging strikes?
If I use Bio, Miasma and Bio II, and then cast Raging Strikes to start spamming Ruin, will it be 'wasted'? Should I cast it before the Dots?

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When you cast a DOT it will retain your current stat, buff, and debuff effects. So you'd want to use DOTs with Raging Strikes up because it will snapshot that buff on the DOT for it's full duration. If you cast a DOT and then use Raging Strikes it will not retroactively buff the existing DOT.

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Originally Posted by Roxas_Andrade

Let's say I use Cleric Stance, cast Aero, and switch back, will the Dot apply the damage with 'full cleric power' every tick? Same goes for Raging strikes?
If I use Bio, Miasma and Bio II, and then cast Raging Strikes to start spamming Ruin, will it be 'wasted'? Should I cast it before the Dots?

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Correct, if you have Raging or Cleric on when it's cast, the full duration is buffed. If you want to buff Bio, Miasma, and Bio II, you'd want to do it before casting the dots. Further, you can Contagion the RS'ed dots to get well beyond the Raging duration out of them.

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

Correct, if you have Raging or Cleric on when it's cast, the full duration is buffed. If you want to buff Bio, Miasma, and Bio II, you'd want to do it before casting the dots. Further, you can Contagion the RS'ed dots to get well beyond the Raging duration out of them.

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OMG. I feel like I've been doing this wrong all the time. Thank you!

I may be repeating myself here, but I'd like to thank you guys for teaching me the right way to apply my DoTs. ^.^

Up till last week I thought I had to maintain Cleric Stance during the full time of the dots or else I'd loose the power CS gives. My mistake. And I didn't even tested to see if this theory of mine was true.

Now I fell like I'm a better SCH, applying the dots in CS and coming back to heal. I don't need to be afraid of going in cleric, cause it will just last as long as I aplly the DoTs. The tank won't die so easily and I don't need to hold damage back.

Well as a SCH you could also let your fairy do the vast majority of the work until the tank gets to half or so, which if he doesn't pull lots doesn't even happen =D

So you can dps all you want.

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Originally Posted by pandabearcat

Well as a SCH you could also let your fairy do the vast majority of the work until the tank gets to half or so, which if he doesn't pull lots doesn't even happen =D

So you can dps all you want.

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Yeah. That's why I'm worried with this new "sacrifice-the-fairy-for-magic-power" skill. Without the fairy you'll have to dps just a little and come back to heal... O throw all your lustrates between the DoTs, LoL

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Originally Posted by Almalexia

Changing DoT duration would alter rotations and increase complexity--not just for players, but for the devs in terms of balancing. I have no doubt DoT duration will remain fixed and the only change we'll see is increased damage/tic.

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I agree it certainly seems the more likely course the developers will take due to it being simpler mechanically. Having the dot durations remain static despite the added tick damage will cause spellspeed to behave identically to determination though. We may see some balancing issues with this depending on how big an effect the stat has. For all the other non-dot dependent jobs their speed stats cause them to burn through their resources faster. SMNs, however, will see an increase in damage with no proportional increase in MP consumption (on our dot upkeep at least). I'm just curious to see how this will turn out.

Add pestilence, make dots dynamic, problem solved.