Question for the devs - Turn 9 Tank Loot, Instance mechanics and Exchange options

I'm not sure if the developers actually do read the forums and collate feedback, but I'm just going to put it out here anyway.

I play a warrior/tank and I understand that the High Allagan Heavy Coat for PLD/MRD drops ONLY in Second Coil Turn 4 (Turn 9).

In the past month, I have been attempting this instance 10-30 times each day through the duty finder in an attempt to obtain the High Allagan Heavy Coat and have done this close to 400++ times and only 3 parties have cleared it without a loot drop.

Just to pre-empt un-constructive comments

1. I have tried using the party finders
2. I have tried organizing groups using Link Shells
3. I have tried organizing groups within the FC

Nobody wants to do Turn 9 anymore, everybody is doing FCOB. Not that there is anything wrong with that, everybody wants to get to BIS ASAP. There is always the backup of the duty finder.

This is naturally the only option open to me, the duty finder. A good 90% of the parties struggle in Phase 2 golems, not to mention Phase 3 or 4. Inevitably, it always ends up as failure after failure and countless hours are just wasted. Only 3 parties have cleared it so far; that is a success rate of less than 1% so far when using the Duty Finder for Turn 9.

I really DO NOT UNDERSTAND why are tanks subjected to this treatment of having their loot locked up behind an instance that is IMPOSSIBLE to clear in the duty finder.

Three pre-requisites are needed, a clear of the Turn 9 then a RNG roll to decide what loot drops then another RNG roll to decide who is able to get the chest piece assuming it drops.

Before somebody says "filthy casuals do not deserve to get raid loot" or "Why should players get stuff handed to them", remember, this is OLD content in terms of the chronology. The loot from Second Coil cannot be desynthesized, so there is little incentive for players to run it as well. Overtime, it may be impossible to even get a party in the duty finder to do Second Coil runs and they become deserts and such symptoms can already be seen for example in turns such as Turn 6 or Turn 7.

BIS gear is currently from Final Coil, sure, keep those instances hard since they are BIS.

I am not asking that the instances be modified to the point where they are just face rolls. Some difficulty is appropriate, but the current iteration is IMPOSSIBLE to clear with a group of 7 random people in a Duty Finder.

The current iteration penalizes:

1. Tanks and classes whose loot are reliant on a Turn 9 clear

2. Players who know the fight but cannot clear it due to the team jump rope mechanics

3. Players who for some reason or circumstances are only able to play the game using the duty finders as a party up option

Having done a month of fruitless attempts at getting the tank chest piece, disappointment is an understatement. It is getting to the point of exasperation and the whole experience is becoming extremely un-enjoyable. Granted that a grind is expected in a MMORPG, but with the way the loot tables are designed and how certain instances like Turn 9 being IMPOSSIBLE to clear in the duty finder, this is beyond just a grind. Why not just simply reserve weapons to drops in gatekeeper instances such as Turns 5, 9, 13 and body pieces from the lower instances?

An element of a MMORPG is to make it such that there is something for a player to aspire to attain. This is definitely not it. In the current iteration, I may never be able to obtain that chest piece even by the day the game closes down.

There are some in the community who are really vocal about changes to mechanics and others getting loot. The question then is

1. "how does it affect you as a person if newer players or players still on older content experience content that is different from you be it in terms of difficulty or mechanics?"

2. These players are not obtaining BIS gear, they're getting older/outdated gear along their progression in the game and story.

3. If players want a full on experience, there's always modes like Savage to pit their skills. Games are filled with all sorts of players and as paying customers, ALL should be able to experience the game content instead of being locked out by some mechanics or game design that makes its impossible to obtain loot, not able to watch cutscenes or experience the story.

The next question being that, since no information exists on what will happen to the mechanics of instances such as Turn 9 in future, are the developers open to the option of using Tomes of Poetics/soldiery or some other Tomes/tokens that drop in raids to exchange for High Allagan Gear (similar to the current antique armour pieces)?

I play this game not just for the raids, but also for the visuals, the character designs and equipment designs which i enjoy collecting. It does not seem unreasonable that in time when the ilevel of gear has increased significantly that an exchange option could be made.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Blim

I really DO NOT UNDERSTAND why are tanks subjected to this treatment of having their loot locked up behind an instance that is IMPOSSIBLE to clear in the duty finder.

---

doesn't every job have loot dropped only in t9?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chokee

doesn't every job have loot dropped only in t9?

---

Yeah. I don't get it either.

Out of all the turns to DF, 9 is one you shouldnt.

I mean it's kind of like Odin, DF gives you two tanks but you absolutely only need 1, so in DF with two tanks you're just seriously gimping yourself.


So I'll be honest I didn't read everything op posted but. Just do yourself a favor and make a PF with just 1 tank, and stop relying on duty finder because..well..it's coil...in the df..it's just not really the best way to go about things.

I've mentioned that I've tried organizing runs with PF, but NOBODY is interested in doing it

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Blim

I've mentioned that I've tried organizing runs with PF, but NOBODY is interested in doing it

---

Trust me you CAN get a PF together for anything, especially t9. I just absolutely won't believe that you CAN'T get a pf together, at all. If you give it enough time you can find 7 other people to do t9.

Yea it's pretty hard to believe that you're unable to build a PF for T9. If it isn't filling one day, try another day.

i dont get the op's thread. this body piece is just for glamour , it's an achievement that u can get in this game if u worked for it. if u know the fight u can simple get a t9 clear in pf, if not ask ur fc to help, or better if u got a static.

Maybe you guys missed it, but I did state that I have asked within the FC, I have tried creating a LS for it, but people aren't interested in doing T9 anymore.
At best, it last a day or two and after that, everybody just does not reply when asked if anyone is interested in doing T9 or they just say they are doing FCOB and do no want to go back into T9 again.

Yes, I am doing it for glamour purposes, and I've also stated in the post that I enjoy collecting equipment in the game, that is why I am still going back to do Second Coil.

As far as working for it, yea I've tried within the constraints and being on a Japanese data centre makes it a tad more difficult organizing such stuff.

And even if I know the fight, you need another 7 people who are on the same page as you 100% of the time throughout the fight.

Using DF for T9 is basically a gamble with a very low chance of winning. Plus there's two tanks so even if it drops there's a 50% chance you won't get it. In this case the best way would be to make some competent friends and run it with them and this should honestly take priority. After 400+ run you should already know using DF is futile so you have to change strategies here. If your FC and LS refuses to run with you, you need to either find better ones.

Probably be a good idea to add a unique mount to every end game final turn (5,9,13).....after clearing it 100x.....but than one part of community will start crying that it will be impossible to get (i.e...only statics will get it)...if conditions are that it must be done via DF...statics will cry about why must they carry a casual via DF...to get mount.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ValkyrieL

Probably be a good idea to add a unique mount to every end game final turn (5,9,13).....after clearing it 100x.....but than one part of community will start crying that it will be impossible to get (i.e...only statics will get it)...if conditions are that it must be done via DF...statics will cry about why must they carry a casual via DF...to get mount.

---

I imagine they'll find some way around it...like having all 8 people queue on D or F ONLY in Tonberry for instance (this is how people farmed commendations for their Gilded Magitek mounts back in the days). Or on the NA/EU datacenters, queueing J only perhaps.

To OP: I'd run it with you, but I am maybe going to be a little busy over the coming week. I may know a couple of other people who'd like to farm it too (I would actually still like my HA spear lol). That said, if you are still farming for it in a fortnight, I would be glad to join you.

Maybe after new expansion release you have higher ilvl gear then you can go again and more easier to clear it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Blim

Maybe you guys missed it, but I did state that I have asked within the FC, I have tried creating a LS for it, but people aren't interested in doing T9 anymore.
At best, it last a day or two and after that, everybody just does not reply when asked if anyone is interested in doing T9 or they just say they are doing FCOB and do no want to go back into T9 again.

Yes, I am doing it for glamour purposes, and I've also stated in the post that I enjoy collecting equipment in the game, that is why I am still going back to do Second Coil.

As far as working for it, yea I've tried within the constraints and being on a Japanese data centre makes it a tad more difficult organizing such stuff.

And even if I know the fight, you need another 7 people who are on the same page as you 100% of the time throughout the fight.

---

what i said still stand, this type of content best done within either fc or a skilled pf group. now if u got problems convicing ur fc to do it or if pf is not working then, think why. when i go in t9 grps i usually can identify what is the problem, its usually either too low dps, or mechanic not being addresss properly. u either have to solve this problem within the group by telling them what todo, but usually pf groups are not so patient, and sometimes if u tel them what todo , they may even flame u in some situations.

like i said before, it's best done within a group or fc or linkshell that knoow what todo, or patient enuf to get instructions. if ur fc or linkshell can't help then get another

my fc does regular runs to help thru new players in t5/9 etc and even final coil for those who dont have a static. it's a matter of quality of the fc or linkshell u are in and weather or not they like to help.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nuyu11

Maybe after new expansion release you have higher ilvl gear then you can go again and more easier to clear it.

---

Gear is not going to stop people from dropping meteors in bad places or stop people from shocking the party with lightning. lol
The reasons for the majority of T9 wipes are not gear-related.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CGMidlander

Gear is not going to stop people from dropping meteors in bad places or stop people from shocking the party with lightning. lol
The reasons for the majority of T9 wipes are not gear-related.

---

Well you can explain that to them, plus we have echo. It's just the player who do not have the patience, wipe is common but don't shout or yell like maniac to them. With higher ilvl you can have more def, hp & dps, new expansion ilvl is up to 150 I believe(correct me if I'm wrong) and that's a huge gap.

t9 in jp data center has waaaaaaay more chance of winning or so i heard. Are you sure the wipes aren't your faults ?

On the topic of loot, I was under the impression that they were going to change it "drastically" for the expansion but then they went and announced that Alexander Normal will drop loot like weekly Crystal Tower does so we are still going to be subject to annoying RNG drops that benefit no one for 20 runs at a time. SE really needs to abolish it for raid content because no one enjoys grinding content for RNG loot when they need upgrades to progress further (Alexander Savage for example later).

That said they haven't said the loot rules for Savage yet but if Savage uses token system I'll be pretty /annoyed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Slappah

Trust me you CAN get a PF together for anything, especially t9. I just absolutely won't believe that you CAN'T get a pf together, at all. If you give it enough time you can find 7 other people to do t9.

---

There are two T9 parties up on my server right now, one clear party and one farm. I see at least two or three PF for T9 daily-- it's not "outdated" content by any means.

Tonberry is a heavily populated server; I find it very hard to believe that no one there is interested in running T9.

OP- you can edit your original post to bypass the character limit :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LunaHoshino

There are two T9 parties up on my server right now, one clear party and one farm. I see at least two or three PF for T9 daily-- it's not "outdated" content by any means.

Tonberry is a heavily populated server; I find it very hard to believe that no one there is interested in running T9.

---

I can actually vouch for that, to an extent. PF in Tonberry is usually filled with:

- FATE parties (Coerthas, Northern Thanalan)
- FCOB farm parties
- Selling T1 - T13/EX primal mount carry packages

I see T9 like once in a blue moon. They do exist, but it's not quite daily.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Parapluies

t9 in jp data center has waaaaaaay more chance of winning or so i heard. Are you sure the wipes aren't your faults ?

---

This.
I am also on Tonberry and I am really surprised by your statement. Never got any problem for T9. In DF, since you are on a JP server, you need to know the "Japanese way" (just google it for a guide). Otherwise, other hint: change FC-LS. I did many carries for FC friends -LS friends just to help or for the 100 sol bonus.

The T9 tank body really isn't good anymore at all besides like retainer gear. Ironworks or the T13 drop are both much better you should go for one of those.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zumi

The T9 tank body really isn't good anymore at all besides like retainer gear. Ironworks or the T13 drop are both much better you should go for one of those.

---

Maybe he wants it for glams?

On Odin, I've been smashing my face against T9 non stop everyday with party finder groups.
It's really a problem ontop of it all that all the players who can actually do the fight have moved on and obviously don't want to look back.

If one thing this turn has taught me is to not get behind on endgame content EVER again for any reason, or you'll get stuck with people who can't do it.

I swear in the amount of time I've wasted trying to get a group who can beat T9 I would be farming T13 by now....

I stoped reading further the second you said "why tanks must be gimped by locking gear on t9"...

EVERY CLASS has loot there. You're not a special snowflake. Many still want their pants/armor/weapons from t9 for glamour purpose, so don't say only tank loot drops there and you are gimped because nobody that has access to FCoB wants to try t9 again. If you have FCoB unlocked, do yourself a favor and do that instead of trying to get old gear. Who knows how much longer will it be before nobody else does the last turns.

You probably don't want to hear it, but your best bet is finding a good/friendly guild. My static helps guildies through content all the time. Old content, new content, causal content, hardcore content... Yesterday we helped a guildie get his first t13 kill, then farmed it with him for two hours. lol.

(on a random QQ note, my chest will never drop...)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xoriam

It's really a problem ontop of it all that all the players who can actually do the fight have moved on and obviously don't want to look back.

---

There has to be a better incentive to go back and do old fights for people that cleared them. 100 soldiery bonus isn't doing it for most. Maybe if it was 100 poetics that do not count toward the cap or 100k gil then I may join some turn 9. But as it is now give gives you little incentive to go back and do old fights.

People are unwilling to do older content that requires some kinda effort if they personally don't want anything from there and the game doesn't give any incentives for them. This isn't a problem exclusive to T9 and sometimes you can wait for hours on end for a party to fill if it's something like T7 or Urth's Fount, and I'm talking DF here. Content like that is really prone to dying out.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Blim

I've mentioned that I've tried organizing runs with PF, but NOBODY is interested in doing it

---

There are people doing both T9 clear and T9 learning parties every day on Excalibur. I highly doubt that out of however many thousands of people are on your server, "NOBODY" is interested in doing it.

Well, for those who aren't on the same server and constantly saying..."I can't believe" etc...you'll be glad to know...YES..NOBODY...as I have been in a PF waiting for the past 2 hours and only 1 other person joined the party

Tonberry's got it rough, then - on Cerberus, there's always at least two T9 kill group/farming parties on PF in the evenings. I myself am helping some FC mates get through it right now as they want a chance to get loot from T10 and T11 before Heavensward.

But no, DF is definitely not the way to go for T9. I still consider it the most mechanically complex fight in the game, FCoB included. It is a shame that so few farm it, but I really wouldn't trust anyone outside of my static with doing it right over and over. I know it's been said, but the only way I can think of getting this done is getting in some big linkshells with serious players and just asking around.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zumi

There has to be a better incentive to go back and do old fights for people that cleared them. 100 soldiery bonus isn't doing it for most. Maybe if it was 100 poetics that do not count toward the cap or 100k gil then I may join some turn 9. But as it is now give gives you little incentive to go back and do old fights.

---

Yeah exactly.
I agree with that bonus idea btw I'm sure something like that would get people in there again.