Newbie Rant - Summoner Pets

This is less of a rant and more of a niggling thought.

Okay, I'm perfectly aware that Summoners, when mastered, are quite flexible and can pour out a great amount of DPS. I'm not talking about their gameplay style or criticizing them. It's just...

Why do Summoner pets look so bloody unimpressive?

I mean, I can understand the concept - you have elementals who have the power of the primals. I can dig that. However, why must they look like chibi primals? I mean, half the time I see one of them, I just want to pet the damned thing (if Square Enix actually made plushies for these and they sold at a reasonable cost, I'd totally buy one btw). Can't we get something bigger, more... weighty and make people feel like the totally badass Summoner they are?

If you're wondering what my suggestions are, it'd be this -

Attacker-type Summon - Instead of Ifrit, I'd say replace him with a drake. You know, one of the wingless dragons we see every once in a while. Same concept and functions, but wouldn't it be awesome controlling one of these guys?

Tank-type Summon - I'd say we either get a giant to replace them, or perhaps one of the Dulahan (sp?) armors. Both have an impressive bulk to them and definitely feel like they can take a hit and return it in kind. They'd be somewhat larger than the Summoner themselves obviously, and make it obvious they're a tank.

Caster-Type Summon - Erm.... I'll be honest, for some reason my mind is drawing a big fat blank here. Suggestions are welcome.

Anyhoo, here are my two cents, yet again. Thank you for reading my rant and have a pleasant day.

http://www.avsforum.com/photopost/da...e-gif-7zfM.gif

The summoner from FF is iconically linked to the traditional summons. Especially Ifrit, Shiva, Garuda, Leviathan, Ramuh, and Titan. (we're actually getting Ramuh and Leviathan Egis in 3.0, and there's a story reason for why there's no Shiva Egi yet.)
You're not going to be getting anything that isn't based on them. And the only reason we get the egis instead of mini versions of the primals is because of the need to streamline them. They can't be too big or they start congesting space.
After playing FFXI as a summoner, I actually fully understand this now: The summons in that game are about the size of PC models or a little bigger, and can make seeing things a royal pain. In FFXIV raids, being unable to see things because a massive Ifrit thingy is in the way is detrimental to victory.

Though don't get me wrong, summoning Titan and seeing his big ass rise from the ground in FFXI is pretty awesome. Having his big ass block my view isn't lol.

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Originally Posted by kyuven

Though don't get me wrong, summoning Titan and seeing his big ass rise from the ground in FFXI is pretty awesome. Having his big ass block my view isn't lol.

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Instead he was replaced with a chicken nugget in 14.

What op is suggesting sounds more like a Beast Master! I've been hoping for BST and BLU in ffxiv since 1.0! Will be super excited if we get them :D

That being said... I also played SMN heavily in FFXI and... The size of the summon was super cool aspect of summoner to me, it just felt right since I grew up playing FF and was used to seeing summons be bigger than the player the majority of the time.

Oh well to each their own. I personally would love to see correctly proportioned summons as pets in XIV but all the immersion nerds would hang Yoshi P in a fit of rage if that ever happened.

Side note: i find it funny that players complain about ffxiv smn wanting summons the size of summons in FFXI but don't complain about monsters being too big... I mean a big ass dragon obstructs your view more than a Titan summon would. Its comical that ppl act like they play ffxiv in first person mode just because there is third person view optionally available. Guess they just really have a too big summon phobia and it stops them from sleeping well at night or something.

Complaining about the APPEARANCE of SMN pets is a complete waste of time. I don't know why the topic gets revived randomly every couple days. It's never going to change, so.

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Originally Posted by Hiruke

Complaining about the APPEARANCE of SMN pets is a complete waste of time. I don't know why the topic gets revived randomly every couple days. It's never going to change, so.

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By that logic, this comment ^ up here is a waste of time. Looks like you're in agreement of wasting time, that's step one.

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Originally Posted by AreeyaJaidee

By that logic, this comment ^ up here is a waste of time. Looks like you're in agreement of wasting time, that's step one.

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I think what they meant by "waste of time" is that devs have already stated that they have no plans to do anything to change about the appearance of Egis, so arguing about it won't get anyone anywhere.

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Originally Posted by Darkstride

I think what they meant by "waste of time" is that devs have already stated that they have no plans to do anything to change about the appearance of Egis, so arguing about it won't get anyone anywhere.

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Doesn't mean ppl can't keep hoping... The devs are not infallible. If ppl don't like something then they will say so, if others don't agree then they can go read another thread, simple.

Ppl replying to "give up its a waste of time" isn't going to stop some of us from hoping for change and asking for change. Its our game too, and this request has been brought up repeatedly from newer and veteran players alike since SMN addition to the game... So its obvious not everyone is a fan of their design choice

They're small to help with visibility concerns. You don't need player-sized pets (or larger) blocking the view in an MMO that's heavy on dodging AoEs and dealing with mechanics markers over player's heads.

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Originally Posted by Kaisha

They're small to help with visibility concerns. You don't need player-sized pets (or larger) blocking the view in an MMO that's heavy on dodging AoEs and dealing with mechanics markers over player's heads.

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Exactly this. Giant summons are fine in single player games. They're not fine in MMOs where you have to watch for small markers over your heads or on the ground. I wouldn't mind a compromise like upscaling summons outside of dungeons/raids since we already have goobues and fat chocobos running around but absolutely not for duties.

I happen to know from previous interviews that some of the current egis will be altered gameplay-wise so each egi can adapt to varying situations, so Ifrit will become more than JUST a melee DPS and Garuda will become more than JUST a ranged DPS, then Ramuh and Leviathan egis will fit in there somewhere.

As for appearances... what kind of appearances are you suggesting? I mean, what won't happen is individual summoners getting full-sized summonable versions of the primals. Whether or not the devs are still going to let FCs summon Primals is up in the air, but no individual summoner will get that power.

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Originally Posted by AreeyaJaidee

Side note: i find it funny that players complain about ffxiv smn wanting summons the size of summons in FFXI but don't complain about monsters being too big... I mean a big ass dragon obstructs your view more than a Titan summon would. Its comical that ppl act like they play ffxiv in first person mode just because there is third person view optionally available. Guess they just really have a too big summon phobia and it stops them from sleeping well at night or something.

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Big monsters exist so they're easy to see and target.
Big players and pets shouldn't exist because they're easy to see and target.
also, FFXI didn't have telegraphs and magical rainbow skittle marks that you needed to look out for. Just the boss's motions. Plus it was made when MMOs were a new thing. It's impractical for player features to be larger than the players themselves, as while it may not obstruct YOUR view, a melee pet that's bigger than the caster stands a good chance of standing on top of someone when, say, a mechanic such as t9 meteors is thrown out. Or, to use dungeons, Anchag's magical kill laser of doom.

And they're also impractical outside of combat. FFXI's summons had a key mitigating factor that prevented them from being REALLY annoying: they were ostensibly temporary. They drained MP and thus couldn't be kept out indefinitely. Which means you couldn't create a massive lagfest of summons in Jeuno to block NPCs for longer than a couple minutes if at all.
In XIV, summons last until the caster changes jobs, one or both dies, or manually desummons it. Thus the need to ensure they don't take up as much space even in the field. Can you imagine how congested Mor Dhona would be if summoner pets were the size of fat chocobos?

Personally I don't mind the egi's size. What I do wish is they shared the models of the primals (just smaller).

The thing is that smaller primals don't make much sense considering how Summoners are getting their egis, lore-wise. Summoners, like in XI, get their egis from the primals as a form of power-sharing. The differences is that in XI the avatars respected Summoners after proving themselves worthy. In XIV you're not so much proving you're worthy in as much proving you're able. But the BIG difference is primals, unlike XI's avatars, are so full of themselves that the stick up their arses have sprouted roots. The egis aren't so much a primal's will given form in an aetheric construct the Summoner can handle as it is a pity pittance, a fragment of a primal that couldn't be arsed to give a rat's arse over. They are not our friends, and a Summoner isn't much higher on the 'friendship' scale.

This is why I say, If there's going to be troubles with the sizes of pets, etc... Don't make a job like summoner, delete it from game!....

Or make it exclusive to lalas so it fits them....

Or.... CARBUNCLES...

I already use my dear beloved carbuncle in PvP, and it is so blood stained that I call it "Blood Carbuncle"

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Originally Posted by Gilraen

The thing is that smaller primals don't make much sense considering how Summoners are getting their egis, lore-wise. Summoners, like in XI, get their egis from the primals as a form of power-sharing.
The differences is that in XI the avatars respected Summoners after proving themselves worthy.
In XIV you're not so much proving you're worthy in as much proving you're able.
But the BIG difference is primals, unlike XI's avatars, are so full of themselves that the stick up their arses have sprouted roots.
The egis aren't so much a primal's will given form in an aetheric construct the Summoner can handle as it is a pity pittance, a fragment of a primal that couldn't be arsed to give a rat's arse over.
They are not our friends, and a Summoner isn't much higher on the 'friendship' scale.

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You see, here's the thing: unlike FFXI, we're not forming some sort of "pact" with a given summon/avatar.
Instead, we're basically "stealing" a fragment of their essence and manifesting it as an aetheric construct, just as you said.
That's exactly how the Allagans developed the "Summoner" job to begin with (as a way to counter them, by fighting "fire with fire" so to speak).

And you're right: these manifestations are not our "friends" (and neither are the Primals from that matter).
Hells, I don't think the Egis themselves are even sentient beyond what their Summoner commands them to do
(in fact, and IMO, on a scale of sentience between pets would be something like: Fairies > Carbuncles >>>>> Egis).

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Originally Posted by kyuven

Big monsters exist so they're easy to see and target.
Big players and pets shouldn't exist because they're easy to see and target.
also, FFXI didn't have telegraphs and magical rainbow skittle marks that you needed to look out for. Just the boss's motions. Plus it was made when MMOs were a new thing. It's impractical for player features to be larger than the players themselves, as while it may not obstruct YOUR view, a melee pet that's bigger than the caster stands a good chance of standing on top of someone when, say, a mechanic such as t9 meteors is thrown out. Or, to use dungeons, Anchag's magical kill laser of doom.

And they're also impractical outside of combat. FFXI's summons had a key mitigating factor that prevented them from being REALLY annoying: they were ostensibly temporary. They drained MP and thus couldn't be kept out indefinitely. Which means you couldn't create a massive lagfest of summons in Jeuno to block NPCs for longer than a couple minutes if at all.

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pets were forbidden in cities back then ... so no lag in jeuno...

no one ask for fat choco size ....just better models and bigger 1.2 the size or something like that

plus how many summoner u see in content that matters 1 or 0 ...

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Originally Posted by kyuven

FFXI's summons had a key mitigating factor that prevented them from being REALLY annoying: they were ostensibly temporary. They drained MP and thus couldn't be kept out indefinitely. Which means you couldn't create a massive lagfest of summons in Jeuno to block NPCs for longer than a couple minutes if at all.

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Not entirely true. There is equipment to drastically reduce the MP costs to less than or equal to the Summoner's built-in Refresh effect for many of the summons. You could happily keep Titan out forever.

Appearance aside though, I miss their impact. Summoner doesn't feel like a summoner. It's just another DPS caster. The 'summon', while not useless, is just another half to the same whole. They don't have many skills, and the few they do have are relatively weak. Compare that to Garuda's Predator Claws from FFXI or Fenrir's Eclipse Bite. There's just no comparison. The balance here was that the summoner was weak on their own, so their pets weren't just an addition, they were a necessity.

Say what you will about them, they at least lived up to their job title.

Personally, I wouldnt like to see the egis made any bigger. That would be a pain for the reasons stated. Visibilty of the boss and targetting. Even with their current size they can get in the way. What I would like to see is improved visuals of the egis. Currently, they look like a 3 year old childs attempt at drawing something. They lack any finesse and detail. I mean c'mon, have you seen the attention to detail they put into the faries, look at there wing patterns, the details on their clothing, blinking eyes. Whilst the current egis are just a mess of green,yellow or red lumps depending which you have summoned.

While I agree with the sentiment of somehow getting more of that "classic Final Fantasy Summoner" feeling (via jaw-dropping Summon Attacks, etc.), the limitations of having hundreds of Players (all w/ the Summoner "Pets" out at once in a crowded area) is an unfortunate reality and limitation.

I made a suggestion a while back about maybe paying tribute to the classic Final Fantasy Summoner feeling via:

* New Summoner Limit Breaks in 3.0.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-s-Ramuh%21%29


It's certainly a way to give a bit of that feeling, while limiting it to only major battles in Raids where you can amass a Level 3 LB and use it. And it's not like it's spammable.

Win-win. I hope they consider it. :)

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Originally Posted by Gralna

http://www.avsforum.com/photopost/da...e-gif-7zfM.gif

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LOL I JUST ROFL'D AT THIS it fits.

Being a SMN main in Final Fantasy XI and then transitioning to being a SMN main in Final Fantasy XIV; I am A-OK with how summons are perceived in this game because there is lore behind the reason on why they look they way they do. And SE will not change the lore they have already placed on Summoner's and their Summons in FFXIV. So please don't ask for something like WoW where the devs and producers bend lore out the wazoo just to create new expansions and crap.