Sooo... how are the new jobs gonna interact with classes?

I mean, Yoshi-P told since the beggining that they won'y function like the jobs we have today, and they won't have a class associated with them. But we still have no clue as to how exactly they would happen, except that they'll get their quest at lvl 30.

What does that mean? I'll be able to equip a DRK soulstone in my lvl 50 CNJ, and it'll use all my CNJ abilities? then I equip a spear and put the DRK soulstone in it, retaining my LNC abilities? Or Yoshi-P took his words back and like, DRK will be an alternate job of GLA in the same way ACNs can be SCH or SMN? Or maybe there is not a DRK soul stone and if we follow the correct terminology, DRK is not a classless job, but a jobless class?

Was this ever adressed, or are we still waiting for answers on that?

They probably meant that all of your abilties will come from jobs, instead of constantly adding more onto classes.

Your new abilities in 3.0 will all be job abilities that you get from quests rather than be given to you as class abilities. The way it works right now, your current class is determined by weapon you have equipped. The new jobs have their own weapon classes so I doubt they'll do something as make you equip a soul crystal as another class.

The new 3.0 jobs are classless, not jobless as they keep saying, but honestly I think it's easier to just call them as "new classes introduced into the game"; you'd just equip the proper weapon. The whole job/class thing/terminology imo is a very stupid concept from that leaves really no room to expand upon (like trying to make DRK an alternate of GLA or THF an alternate of ROG)

My assumption would be the new Jobs will be a new class with the following in mind:

-A class that begins at level 30
-Will not require a job stone, instead they will equip a specific weapon type like any other class in the game
-Have a skill table similar to a normal class would have (this means you'll have all your abilities/skills/spells up to level 30 already)
-Have new abilities they learn via job quests as you level the job up
-Be able to cross class from two classes similar to how existing jobs work
-Have a stat bonus similar to how jobs have a stat bonus to the class line

Theres not been any mention of the 3 new jobs sharing cross-class skills as far as I am aware, so it is currently unknown.

The 3 new jobs will be fully independent of any class and will have their own skills, I would assume there is 2 likely outcomes:

1) The 3 new jobs operate similar to the current jobs and will share cross class skills with 2 other classes (this would make things simple like allowing DRK access Gladiator's provoke, which is necessary to be a tank in any situation that requires tank swapping)

2) The 3 new jobs have no access to any previous class skills and are equipped with their own unique skill set that still allows them to perform to an equal level (Giving DRK its own form of provoke)

My personal opinion is that considering that the cross class skills are quite a tricky balance suspect and as jobs in future not only get more abilities there will be more jobs to share them it then becomes a potential minefield for developers so I would expect them to try and move away from the cross-class skills in future and aim to create more independent jobs that can function efficiently without the need for cross class abilities also allowing Gamepad players to free up space on their Hotbars for the new job specific abilities.

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Originally Posted by AlexionSkylark

What does that mean? I'll be able to equip a DRK soulstone in my lvl 50 CNJ, and it'll use all my CNJ abilities? then I equip a spear and put the DRK soulstone in it, retaining my LNC abilities?

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OK, look, there are not many answers out there, but a moment's thought should have told you how unlikely these two thoughts are.

The new jobs don't function like the old ones because they are not class based, they are stand alone jobs. Other than that they will work just the same as existing jobs, only without the cross class requirements for enabling the job. No idea if there is a soul stone or some other accessory to specifically switch to the new job, nor have we been given to understand whether they can/will cross skill with other roles.

Personally I think it more likely that since these 3 jobs start in an insular kingdom they will more likely cross skill with each other than with other jobs. After all, it's the Warrior of light who has in many ways brought back the jobs, over and above the classes which the 'regular' guilds already teach. It's possible (perhaps probable) that they might inherit a few skills from the other classes, after all even the beast tribes and Garleans have individuals using the main classes (or at least class skills). So why not the Ishgardians as well?

What I think will happen in 3.0 is that classes will all be reduced to level 30, and jobs will be what levels after 30. So basically if you haven't leveled arcanist and unlocked smn and sch I think it'll be the best time to do so, just incase you need to level them separately after the expansion.

Stop thinking of it like that. You're making it 1000x more complicated than it needs to be. They are standalone jobs. That means they aren't related to CNJ, or GLA, or anything else. Maybe they'll have a soulstone (doesn't make sense at all because of how it works now...there's no base class to get kicked back to. Maybe you just wouldn't be able to unequip it), maybe they won't, but either way they are basically their own "class" and job and you're not going to keep abilities from other classes depending on which one you equip the soulstone onto.

OK, so when you equip a greatsword, you change job to DRK. And then, what? you automatically start with 6 to 7 skills pertaining to what the other classes have up to lvl 30?

It's not going to be complicated. It'll work exactly how it does now except that the class/job division won't exist.
For example, if Dragoon was a new job, instead of leveling Lancer and plugging in the job stone to become a Dragoon you just start as Dragoon and level Dragoon.

The whole class/job thing is little more than an issue of nomenclature and some superficial differences. Mechanically it's not like there's some fundamental difference between class and job that makes this complex. You trade cross class skills for more specialized skills and some stats and get a new logo.

I would not be surprised if you still get a job stone. It'd function the same way. Adds some stats and allows you access to the "job" skills (ones taught by the trainer) and limits you to 5 cross-class.

Kinda... if you throw cross-class in the mix, stuff can get messy... specially if other jobs can get cross-class skills FROM the new jobs. As it is right now, you can get CLASS skills as cross class, but not JOB. How will that work in the future, when they add more jobs? Will the new jobs be able to get skills from each other?

Yea don't over think it.

- You will equip a Greatsword to change into DRK
- You will start at lvl 30.
- You will have a number of skills appropriate for a job of that level

- The end.

The real question is whether SE will allow the new jobs to have any cross skills with existing classes.

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Originally Posted by AlexionSkylark

Kinda... if you throw cross-class in the mix, stuff can get messy... specially if other jobs can get cross-class skills FROM the new jobs. As it is right now, you can get CLASS skills as cross class, but not JOB. How will that work in the future, when they add more jobs? Will the new jobs be able to get skills from each other?

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I believe the idea is to treat the new jobs as "Classes with particular benefits and restrictions in place to make them feel like a Job." This also means that specific abilities from this class will be able to be cross-classed.

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Originally Posted by AlexionSkylark

OK, so when you equip a greatsword, you change job to DRK. And then, what? you automatically start with 6 to 7 skills pertaining to what the other classes have up to lvl 30?

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YES! From what we have gathered that will be exactly it!

You'll equip the weapon (Greatsword for example) and will start off at level 30 with I dunno 10 abilities.

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Originally Posted by AlexionSkylark

Kinda... if you throw cross-class in the mix, stuff can get messy... specially if other jobs can get cross-class skills FROM the new jobs. As it is right now, you can get CLASS skills as cross class, but not JOB. How will that work in the future, when they add more jobs? Will the new jobs be able to get skills from each other?

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You might have "cross class" skills divided up in to types: Tank / DPS / Healing. Paladin has access to Tank/Healing. War to Tank/DPS. Maybe Dark Knight will have Tank/Caster or Tank/DPS too, who knows? We'll have to wait and find out.

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Originally Posted by AlexionSkylark

Kinda... if you throw cross-class in the mix, stuff can get messy... specially if other jobs can get cross-class skills FROM the new jobs. As it is right now, you can get CLASS skills as cross class, but not JOB. How will that work in the future, when they add more jobs? Will the new jobs be able to get skills from each other?

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You're overthinking it. Every skill has a list of classes that can use it. That's the real criterion for a skill being cross-class. They could add PLD to Benediction's list, if they wanted.

It may work that if you any dps class then you can the machinist*sp, if you have any healer class then you can get th astrolgian*sp job, if you have any tank class then you can get the DRK job. This seems like an easier way to keep system simple with out changing it too much. Its seems easier to have these classes unlock these jobs.Just my thought.

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Originally Posted by RukiaFae

It may work that if you any dps class then you can the machinist*sp, if you have any healer class then you can get th astrolgian*sp job, if you have any tank class then you can get the DRK job. This seems like an easier way to keep system simple with out changing it too much. Its seems easier to have these classes unlock these jobs.Just my thought.

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Honestly I think it will be as easy as just accepting the Job quest for each. I don't think they will gate it behind any Job/Class requirements; it's already gated behind 2.x story line.

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Originally Posted by AlexionSkylark

I mean, Yoshi-P told since the beggining that they won'y function like the jobs we have today, and they won't have a class associated with them. But we still have no clue as to how exactly they would happen, except that they'll get their quest at lvl 30.

What does that mean? I'll be able to equip a DRK soulstone in my lvl 50 CNJ, and it'll use all my CNJ abilities? then I equip a spear and put the DRK soulstone in it, retaining my LNC abilities? Or Yoshi-P took his words back and like, DRK will be an alternate job of GLA in the same way ACNs can be SCH or SMN? Or maybe there is not a DRK soul stone and if we follow the correct terminology, DRK is not a classless job, but a jobless class?

Was this ever adressed, or are we still waiting for answers on that?

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Think Death Knights from WoW.

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Originally Posted by RiceisNice

The whole job/class thing/terminology imo is a very stupid concept from that leaves really no room to expand upon (like trying to make DRK an alternate of GLA or THF an alternate of ROG)

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Incorrect. It has the potential to be extremely powerful, it was just done way wrong.

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Originally Posted by AlexionSkylark

Kinda... if you throw cross-class in the mix, stuff can get messy... specially if other jobs can get cross-class skills FROM the new jobs. As it is right now, you can get CLASS skills as cross class, but not JOB. How will that work in the future, when they add more jobs? Will the new jobs be able to get skills from each other?

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The new jobs can get cross-skill from the old classes (2 of them), but the old jobs can't get cross-skills from the new ones. Like it was with Ninja.

If the old classes (not jobs) can get cross-skills from the new jobs, we will see.

The armory system was much more uncomplicated before the job system got added to it, in my opinion ^^

What about gear? I have asked several times if the gear we have stored will be usable (i.e PAL for Dark, WHM for AST, etc.) for these new jobs. Otherwise, GC seals a'plenty.

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Originally Posted by Caoihmin

What about gear? I have asked several times if the gear we have stored will be usable (i.e PAL for Dark, WHM for AST, etc.) for these new jobs. Otherwise, GC seals a'plenty.

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Of course. They all obviously have their roles, and those roles obviously have their armors (DRK = tank = GLA/PLD/MRD/WAR gear will get DRK added to it). They'll likely just fit them into old gear like they did with ROG/NIN. There's no reason to keep any gear pre-30 though since they're starting at 30 - I'm getting rid of all of my non-unique (not Foestrikers, Acolyte, etc) gear as soon as I hit 30 on my last two classes.

Remove classes. Remove souls.

Make all jobs start at level 1. It really doesn't do anything interesting imo. Keep the Job specific quests for 30+.

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Originally Posted by AlexionSkylark

Kinda... if you throw cross-class in the mix, stuff can get messy... specially if other jobs can get cross-class skills FROM the new jobs. As it is right now, you can get CLASS skills as cross class, but not JOB. How will that work in the future, when they add more jobs? Will the new jobs be able to get skills from each other?

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Oh, I missed this when I replied earlier. I'm guessing we'll have more class-based jobs in the future, and that this is just a stop-gap while they figure out how to repair the class/job system.

Personally, I'd like to see classes become much more generalized and with a broader range of skills. Classes should be semi-hybrids, fitting into two-ish roles based on how you're geared (IE, Gladiator should be tank/dps), and then jobs should be focused into one specific role(IE PLD would be the pure tank job off of Gladiator, with some other job being pure DPS off of it). Unfortunately, the 'Unholy Trinity' seems to be the way roles work in this game, and that sucks because it dramatically limits the game's flexibility.

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Originally Posted by TheRogueX

Classes should be semi-hybrids, fitting into two-ish roles based on how you're geared

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Hybrids don't work too well, why take a weaker hybrid healer when you can take a much more competent dedicated healer? Same with Tank, Also PLD and WAR are capable, depending on gear, of outputting competent DPS, our WAR in turn 13 puts out a respectable 400 DPS+, even with gearing out for accuracy and survivability. Gear either out in full det/crit gear with DPS accs and they will do very good DPS. My 125 PLD, I can push out a pretty consistent 425 DPS on the dummy.

Also, if you balance content for hybrids then it becomes much easier on dedicated roles. Thus still eliminating the need for hybrids. Path of least resistence yo!

It only works with support hybrids in FFXIV because there aint no dedicated support to use instead.

Also too much flexibility leads to redundance of certain jobs for content. Just look at FFXI. Not to mention, even hybrids in FFXI when utilised are pushed into a specific task which does not utilize the full scope of them for the above reasons, *cough* stun SCH *cough*

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Originally Posted by Caoihmin

What about gear? I have asked several times if the gear we have stored will be usable (i.e PAL for Dark, WHM for AST, etc.) for these new jobs. Otherwise, GC seals a'plenty.

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Astrologian will be able to wear Astrologian gear, all class gear (or it would be not fair), Healer gear and DoM gear, but not WHM gear (like WHM AF or PVP).

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Originally Posted by Arupopo

Remove classes Change jobs into classes. Remove souls.

Make all jobs start at level 1 skills cross-able, except those skills that the guilds sell. It really doesn't do anything interesting imo. Keep the Job specific quests for 30+. And change THM and CNJ back how they were at 1.0 launch

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I changed it a bit

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Originally Posted by TheRogueX

Incorrect. It has the potential to be extremely powerful, it was just done way wrong.

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True, and since the new skills gonna be only jobs skills, will be easier and will have more sense to make jobs coming from the same class

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Originally Posted by Arupopo

Remove classes. Remove souls.

Make all jobs start at level 1. It really doesn't do anything interesting imo. Keep the Job specific quests for 30+.

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OK, then what do you do about SMN and SCH?

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Originally Posted by TheRogueX

I'm guessing we'll have more class-based jobs in the future, and that this is just a stop-gap while they figure out how to repair the class/job system.

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We likely won't. ROG was very likely the last class this game will ever see. The current developers have a lot of contempt for the class system, and these new jobs are the first step in moving away from it forever.