Steps of Faith . . .

Made me regret renewing my sub from trial. I'm not even kidding.

The Steps of Faith is not that hard, it just requires a lot of communication and people to do there jobs.

DF groups can be a little hit and miss on this one.

kinda sucks there is no real reason to repeat this trial it's a lot of fun

It's not fun. It's a gimmicky POS that has no business being in the roulette.

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Originally Posted by Ageofwar

it just requires a lot of communication and people to do there jobs.

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So what you're saying is ... it's hard.

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Originally Posted by Lyrinn

So what you're saying is ... it's hard.

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well a lot of communication at the start and for everyone to do there job.

it is seriously piss easy to do.

just need 2 ppl on cannons and snares (melee DPS)
1 person on dragonkiller (1 DPS or tank)
1 DPS on Vishap (ranged DPS recommenced)
1 tank to hold all the adds on Vishaps front legs for the cannons to take out
and the healers to keep people alive (no raising needed)

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Originally Posted by Bodicca

It's not fun. It's a gimmicky POS that has no business being in the roulette.

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Its actually a very fun fight, as long as everyones doing their part.

Which isn't even that hard. While it seems many parties need someone to shout out what to do, many people miss the fact that the NPCs are actually giving you instructions in real time. All you need to do is sort out whos on cannons and the dragon killers at the start (A 45 second job), and your good.

And it seems people are catching on, anyway. My last two roulettes were one shot wins on SoF, compared to the 4 hours it took to clear it the first time. In a week or so, the only problem with SoF will be how long it is.

EDIT: I'm actually looking forward to Heavensward having more content like this. Something besides kicking a boss in the tits/balls really hard until it falls over.

This trial requires that everyone does his or her part, since alot of players are used to charging in and not communicating, we will see alot of failures. I told my group to stop charging and discuss the roles and how to proceed, after we were done talking, we did it and nobody died and we cleared it.

I noticed that this is one trial where carrying other players is very hard.

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Originally Posted by Lyrinn

So what you're saying is ... it's hard.

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Seriously ? SoF is at the bottom line of what old MMO required to really enter end game content... if you ever managed to level up to that point. You're in a MMO game, not a solo game. Coordination and communication should be required every single time. It's actually a good thing that the verage idiot can't steamroll through it. They might finally learn the basics of an MMO (which is being multiplayer...)

i don't really bother with roulettes i don't want SoF I'm thankful i got a clear but its very difficult to get people on the same page , most dps don't want to be on canon duty just full zerg and so many more...

I just don't know i get to the point I'm burned out more dealing with people not the game content :confused:

Yep, another one of these. As soon as Story mode requires something more than simple 123, people go RIOT.

Arrange some things before the run; 2 person for cannons (ranged dps), 1 person for Dragonkiller (anyone), make sure tanks pull adds ahead/inside the boss, kill/interrupt tortoises, and the rest is just tank and spank like you're used to.

It's going to be nerfed, no way it's not happening. It's not in S-E's interests to bar people out of the essential content, because they lose money that way. For instance, are these people going to buy heavensward if they can't even access it? The thing people should be worried about is if they start severely nerfing extremes and non-essential content, which isn't really a thing right now.

Deja vu.

Haven't I seen this thread before?

"*insert new content here* is too hard! I'm rage-quitting!"

Every time.

Like everyone else, communication is important. Everyone plays an important role.

The thing is, it's only bottlenecking people out if they want free clears without doing anything..

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Originally Posted by Bombast

Its actually a very fun fight, as long as everyones doing their part.

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Therein lies the problem.

Also, I personally didn't find it very fun to have a fight with the camera instead of the actual boss as the adds tank.

I don't think the fight is as bad as some are making it out to be here...

The concept of using Berthas + Chains and the Dragon Killer Tower should have been explained in detail in a briefing cutscene or something, and not via NPC speechbubbles during the fight, that'd be my only gripe with it. (Or did they and I skipped it? ^^)

I got SoF in a Trial roulette. First run, we wiped, no one seemed to have a good idea of what to do. I'd already cleared it before, so I stepped up, as MT, and laid out the plan. Everyone understood, and we cleared it pretty easily. Simple explanations always work well, especially for the newcomers to the duty. I actually enjoy it quite a bit, it's so different from the other trials we face. Beat down Ifrit/Garuda/ETC. DPS check on this trial or that trial. Nothing that really pulls a team together to get something done. I would like to see more of this type of content.

This trial is superior to the average one simply because players can't spam rotations alone to expect a win.

In order to succeed, people must:

1. think
2. do their jobs
3. serve a specific role
4. react to directions

Any party can win as long as everyone is capable of being a team player.

Those who 'cannot win' are often part of the problem.

This is why I truly dislike all the COILS complaints about been hard and demand nerf. SOF is very easy and just requires communication/coordination as COILS, yet the mentality of DF groups is to zerg everything.

The Ultros trial is the same way. I had too many DF groups collapse and bicker when DPS don't gather stacks or don't even jump back in the right spot when they get blown off by Typhoon. It's like the typical DPS player go "deer in the headlights" when you ask them to do anything besides MAD DEEPS.

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Originally Posted by ValkyrieL

This is why I truly dislike all the COILS complaints about been hard and demand nerf. SOF is very easy and just requires communication/coordination as COILS, yet the mentality of DF groups is to zerg everything.

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The difference is complaints about Coil aren't really founded since you don't need to do those in order to unlock Heavensward. Main Scenario quests, as disappointing as it might sound, can't really be all that demanding or Square-Enix is going to be losing players.

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Originally Posted by Conando

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truth be told, they aren't demanding.

1-31 requires you to smash buttons
32-50 additionally requires to move out of (sometimes not indicated) AoEs
lv 50 duties are the same BUT you can utterly overgear them so that it returns to the 1-31 tier of content

Then comes SoF, the one duty where you actually have to play as a team to succeed. Where you are actually FORCED to play the basics of a MMO.

Want to blame the team on something ? Blame them for making idiot-proof content all the way up (even though Titan when i70 was a thing was pretty hard), not because they actually made a fight corresponding to the genre of the game.

Enough idiot proof content. Force people to get better at their job to progress. That's already a solo player game's mechanic, why can't it be applied in a MMO ?

I agree with Kuwagami. This game needs more non-faceroll content tied to the main quest. It literally forces people to work together, which is a good thing in an MMO.

The scales have tipped a bit far into just loldps everything and I think SE is trying to correct this. SoF is a wake up to all players of things to come in Heavensward IMO.

I don't think you two are realizing that it doesn't work that way. People aren't going to see SoF as Square-Enix trying to make them get better at the game, and they're not going to use it as an incentive to get better. Instead they'll wait for a nerf, or if it isn't nerfed, they'll stop giving Square-Enix money.

Edit: This also isn't something that's easily surmounted in European servers where there's a high chance you'll be in a group where every player doesn't even speak the same language. If you're not expecting there to be changes, I don't know what else I can say. It's going to happen, because duty finder groups just aren't cooperating well enough outside the Japanese servers.

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Originally Posted by Conando

I don't think you two are realizing that it doesn't work that way. People aren't going to see SoF as Square-Enix trying to make them get better at thegame, and they're not going to use it as an incentive to get better. Instead they'll wait for a nerf, or if it isn't nerfed, they'll stop giving Square-Enix money.

Edit: This also isn't something that's easily surmounted in European servers where there's a high chance you'll be in a group where every player doesn't even speak the same language. If you're not expecting there to be changes, I don't know what else I can say. It's going to happen, because duty finder groups just aren't cooperating well enough outside the Japanese servers.

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Except that DF groups are first/second try clearing this at a very impressive rate, and you don't really need to speak the same language as the people your playing with since NPCs are guiding the flow of battle and giving everyone instructions.

I'm curious - How would you nerf this? Taking away mechanics isn't a nerf, its a new trial. They could lower the bosses health, but you'd still need to hit him with 1-2 dragon killers, making such a nerf pointless, since you still have to work together.

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Originally Posted by Conando

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Well then it's a real shame. I failed to notice when MMOs became solo games because ain't anybody got time to talk.

And please don't treat Europeans as people who are unable to understand/speak basic English. You can even use the game translator or google translate if there is the need...

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Originally Posted by Bodicca

It's not fun. It's a gimmicky POS that has no business being in the roulette.

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gimmicky? so the first real fight in the game with mechanics other then "dodge the thing!" is a gimmick? I found this fight fun as hell. and i hope they put more fights like this where its not just a giant circle room wher eyou tank and spank while dodgeing Shiny shit.

I'm not sure what ideal duty servers your on, but I inevitably end up in a group with at least 2-3 people who barely scratch the ilvl 90 requirement to even enter the fight. Add to that tanks that no matter how much you tell them will never drag adds into range of cannons before the dragon is on top of you. And no matter how well you communicate something and ask if anyone has any questions no one will do what they're instructed to do or admit that they don't understand. It's part of the trial roulette, so it needs to be on equal footing or removed entirely. I don't even attempt it anymore. I take my 30 minute debuff to clean my house or whatever then go back to light farming on mahatma.

This seriously needs a nerf of either the add's/boss' health, the boss' movement speed, or at the very least a freaking echo buff.

Why in God's name was it not introduced with an echo buff?

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Originally Posted by Nova_Dresden

Why in God's name was it not introduced with an echo buff?

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You do know what the echo buff is for, right?

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Originally Posted by Bombast

Except that DF groups are first/second try clearing this at a very impressive rate, and you don't really need to speak the same language as the people your playing with since NPCs are guiding the flow of battle and giving everyone instructions.

I'm curious - How would you nerf this? Taking away mechanics isn't a nerf, its a new trial. They could lower the bosses health (I mean really, Vishap has only a little over 200,000 less HP than Bahamut Prime), but you'd still need to hit him with 1-2 dragon killers, making such a nerf pointless, since you still have to work together.

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Yes, a simple nerf would be reducing Vishap's HP (It does have a LOT of HP for a story quest trial). Or they could increase the time it takes to fail (that's more what I'd expect them to do) or lower the amount of adds. Of course, they could even just make it more clear what people have to do, for those who refuse to communicate for whatever reason. The last one isn't really a nerf, though, just a tweak. Actually, a friend of mine suggested something like a introductory cutscene that was like a mission briefing. People will probably still want to just rush in, but at least it would help those who are genuinely confused.

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Originally Posted by Kuwagami

Well then it's a real shame. I failed to notice when MMOs became solo games because ain't anybody got time to talk.

And please don't treat Europeans as people who are unable to understand/speak basic English. You can even use the game translator or google translate if there is the need...

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If you saw WoW in the last half decade, you would see the writing on the wall. And the fact of that matter is, it is an issue whether it offends you or not. There will be people who don't want to communicate with those outside of their own language out of some sense of pride. It goes for English speaking players too, I've seen plenty of them not even try to figure out what a Spanish or French speaking player is saying, when it's more simple than it is for those other players to translate English and its strange grammar. Also, please tell me where in the game's auto translate is there something to tell unknowing players to use the tethers, or to tell the tank how to position the adds.

Hardest part of that fight is getting the snares and dragonkiller switch in time. Took me a couple runs to figure out what the snares were though >< Tanks just have to keep the adds under Vishap and cannon spam.

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Originally Posted by Conando

Yes, a simple nerf would be reducing Vishap's HP (It does have a LOT of HP for a story quest trial). Or they could increase the time it takes to fail (that's more what I'd expect them to do) or lower the amount of adds. Of course, they could even just make it more clear what people have to do, for those who refuse to communicate for whatever reason. The last one isn't really a nerf, though, just a tweak. Actually, a friend of mine suggested something like a introductory cutscene that was like a mission briefing. People will probably still want to just rush in, but at least it would help those who are genuinely confused.

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Hell no! If done right, you get to kill Visharp without using the last Dragon Killer tower and the whole last part of his walk at all, so you have plenty of time for fails.

The briefing cutscene was a thing I proposed in this thread here.

OK, this is coming from someone who literally was 1/26 in the fight:

The people behind this game need to take a serious look and have some very real questions for a lot of players who clearly don't know their ass with both hands.

I applaud SE for putting together a fight like this, one which REQUIRES eight people who know what the blazes they are doing.

And I'M the one who gets accused for wanting a faceroll, when I tell people what they need to do and they simply refuse to do it.

Good job on the fight, guys. Bad job on not forcing competence on the playerbase sooner.

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Originally Posted by Bombast

You do know what the echo buff is for, right?

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Completing content that you have had issues clearing under normal circumstances. It's been in the game since it relaunched on solo story missions and job quests. It's not a new thing they put in 2.2 for coil, and since this is a story trial that has no loot and no bearing on accessing raid or end game content it should have launched with an echo buff. On the flip side Odin is not either of those two things, so that is why it shouldn't have a buff at launch and it didn't. I know you aren't understanding my words, but to sum it up no one should be stonewalled at a fight that once completed no one wants to do again that prevents completion of story content 2 months prior to an expansion.

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Originally Posted by Spoekes

Hell no! If done right, you get to kill Visharp without using the last Dragon Killer tower and the whole last part of his walk at all, so you have plenty of time for fails.

The briefing cutscene was a thing I proposed in this thread here.

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Depending on the players yeah, but I honestly think they are overreaching what players in ilvl 90 can accomplish. It should have been higher than 90, or at least launch with the echo buff. I wouldn't mind making more attempts with an echo buff, but if at first wipe he's at 70% and at second wipe he's at 65% I'm not going to waste my time on that third attempt.

And a briefing cutscene would work if it weren't for the fact that almost everyone skips cutscenes and the one person who SLOWLY reads every line of text leading into a battle gets on everyone's nerves for just standing there for 10 minutes until they finish and can get the 2 minute fight over.

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Originally Posted by Nova_Dresden

I wouldn't mind making more attempts with an echo buff, but if at first wipe he's at 70% and at second wipe he's at 65% I'm not going to waste my time on that third attempt.

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If your group fails at 60-70%, it's not a dps issue but a braindead issue. There is nothing Echo can solve with this.

So every SoF round you have people are barely hitting iLvL90?
I don't believe it.
But if, try putting the weakest geared players on cannon and tower duty.

A technical KO at like 70% means the guys at the cannons where not doing their job for whatever reason. (Both combined do 4000 damage every 3 seconds! - forget echo, really)
Key are cannon users and the tank placing adds at Vasharps belly so cannons hit adds and boss.

Yeah, I agree that the ilvl requirement is too low. It's the same as with Odin; the fight itself is easy, but can be a pain with half the party being of ilvl 90 caliber. Most of the people should already have at least Soldiery gear, so I think they should've just gone with 100 min.

An explanatory briefing would've been good. SoF is an improvement to the earlier concept though; it is finally forcing people to deal with at least minuscule mechanics. It's not overly hard, but it's not a faceroll anymore, but people are rioting because they don't want to do a single bit of self-assessement to better their play.

In other words, it's not really the game's fault.

It's the player's fault for not doing mechanics.

I blame the Crystal tower.

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Originally Posted by Spoekes

So every SoF round you have people are barely hitting iLvL90?

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Yes, at least one to two. They're easy to identify when they have less than 4k HP and sometimes barely over 3k. I've had tanks that it was pointless to use Lustrate on them because it healed for less than Physick. Your server group might not have this issue, but mine sure does when I end up in there.

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Originally Posted by Spoekes

But if, try putting the weakest geared players on cannon and tower duty.

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That's the fastest way to get them killed since 1 biast hit can almost drop them.

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Originally Posted by Spoekes

A technical KO at like 70% means the guys at the cannons where not doing their job for whatever reason. (Both combined do 4000 damage every 3 seconds! - forget echo, really)

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Can't shoot what isn't there as either players can't or won't kill the biasts before either the cannon is destroyed or the person shooting it is killed. An echo buff will at least up healing and HP along with DPS on adds to counter that.

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Originally Posted by Spoekes

Key are cannon users and the tank placing adds at Vasharps belly so cannons hit adds and boss.

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I know I've mentioned that tanks not bringing adds into range is another of the issues I've had. You can drill that home over and over and over and it just ain't happening. I'm just not running that trial anymore. The 30 minute debuff is a better use of my time than wasting 30 minutes on multiple wipes with a repair bill at the end.

The real problem seems to be the reward you get for this trial on the roulette.
I still don't think it needs a nerf,
but a reward that prevents the ragers from quitting it because its not worth the time spent with a bad group.

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Originally Posted by Nova_Dresden

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All that you're saying can be shortened into "players aren't doing their part of the job". You might start there instead of considering echo.

Cannons should not get hit by the biasts. Ever. the cannons are the safest place of the entire fight if people are doing what they're supposed to do.