[SPOILER] About the vid after T12

Again, SPOILERS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So after you beat T12, you find out that Louisoix turned in to Phoenix after the end of an era trailer, and he basically beat bahamut on his own...

But I do not understand 2 things ...

1) If Louisoix, with the power of his Phoenix form, can beat a FULLY POWERED Bahamut, then why is this exact same Phoenix in T12 easier to beat than the WEAKER version of Bahamut in T13, aka Bahamut Prime?

2) Where did this phoenix form come from? I tried googling but I can't find any lore specific reasons as to HOW Louisoix got this Phoenix form.. I mean, where did it come from and why Phoenix, why not another primal/summon? Anyone got some more lore info in this? :)

For 1 I dont think the Phoenix we fight is the full power Phoenix that beat Bahamut since Louisoix is a thrall of Bahamut in that moment.

For 2 He became Phoenix because all the prayer of the people and all the ather the fight was producing. Also we can infer from that CS that Phoenix is the primal of the people of Eorzea

Well as far as why T12 is easier, he's Bahamut's thrall at that moment. The reason he was so super charged during the fall of Dalamud was because of all the prayers from Eorzea and his own. If you rewatch the cutscenes in your Inn he explains that he was reborn as Phoenix due to all the prayers for a way to save Eorzea. So that answers question 2 as well, it wasn't another primal because everyone was praying for Louisoix to call The Twelve to save us. Once Bahamut destroyed his summoning those prayers helped turn him into the Phoenix, born again from the ashes. And just before he died Bahamut was able to lay claim to him & he became his thrall.

It's easier to answer these questions in reverse.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pyroclastic

2) Where did this phoenix form come from?

---

This explanation hinges on an assumption - that the game was literal when it said Louisoix became a primal and did not become host to a primal, as did Iceheart. I see no reason to doubt that, so far, so let's take it as-is and move on.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Louisoix

Little choice remained to me. I used the last of my strength to entrust our hope unto the future, and prepared to meet my end. As you have no doubt surmised, I did not perish. When the cage built from the essences of the Twelve was destroyed, the sky was filled with a colossal cloud of aether... This drifting energy responded to the prayers of those fighting below─and to my own desperate wish that the dying realm be saved─by infusing me with the power of a primal. I became the immortal Phoenix, ancient symbol of rebirth.

---

From what I can tell, it worked like this:

• The people wish for Dalamud to be returned to the heavens.
• Louisoix has people pray at stones across Eorzea to fill the aetherial rivers with prayers to the Twelve, "awakening" them at specific locations.
• Louisoix uses Tupsimati to gather the aether required to summon twelve deities at once.
• Aether + Prayer = Manifestations representing the Twelve appear and re-build an aetheric Dalamud around Bahamut in accordance with the prayers.
• Bahamut breaks the spell; the massive aetherial surplus summoned by Tupsimati is left freefloating in the air.
• The people are seeing Bahamut's rampage and praying to the Twelve that Louisoix truly will save them.
• Louisoix is wishing for the realm to be reborn from the ashes of Bahamut's flames, this reminds him of the legends of the phoenix.
• Free-floating Aether + Prayer for Salvation-by-Louisoix = Louisoix is deiformed (primalized)
• Deiform Louisoix + Mental Image of a Phoenix = Louisoix becomes the Phoenix
• Louisoix sucker-punches Bahamut asunder and attempts to restore all of the aether to the land to see it reborn.
• Bahamut's heart survives, taking in some of this aether, inclusive of Louisoix's dissolving form
• The realm is partly restored - Bahamut is party restored - The Ragnarok Class Interment Hulks burrow to bind and restore the crystal heart.
• Louisoix and Nael ish Darnus are resurrected by Bahamut as aetherial shades bound to his will (Louisoix retains the Phoenix)

A full version of this line of interpretation can be read here.

Yes, I did just say Nael ish Darnus. To prevent confusion between Nael deus Darnus (seen in Version 1.0 when Nael van Darnus was defeated and gave his body/soul as a vessel for Almightdy Dalamud aka Bahamut) and Nael deus Darnus (seen in Version 2.0 when Bahamut rebuilt an aetherial mortal frame for Nael van Darnus' captured, still-tempered essence in what seems to be the wrong body), I will from now on be referring to Nael deus Darnus II as Nael ish Darnus.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pyroclastic

1) If Louisoix, with the power of his Phoenix form, can beat a FULLY POWERED Bahamut, then why is this exact same Phoenix in T12 easier to beat than the WEAKER version of Bahamut in T13, aka Bahamut Prime?

---

When Louisoix was deiformed, he had twelve primals worth of aether at his disposal. When Louisoix was resurrected by Bahamut, he retained his shape, but not all of that aetherial power. Further complicating it, he was bound to Bahamut's power, which was less than the original Phoenix, but more than he currently possessed, putting him in Turn 12.

You guys are awesome, everything makes sense now ;D

Here's a video playlist of all the Fcob Cutscenes for ya: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7qA...7LWFUkUDZpLlhz

As Moose said, Phoenix came into being from the wishes of all the people of Eorzea, and that amount of aether went into Louisoix, transforming him into Phoenix (which implies that a living being can turn into one). Louisoix planned to let go of that aether after he defeated Bahamut, but the dragon was stubborn and dragged that aether (along with Louisoix) with him into the Dalamud fragments.

I wonder if we'll get to learn more about Nael in the future, he was about to say some interesting things before Louisoix impaled him in the T9 CS.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dragonflie

I wonder if we'll get to learn more about Nael in the future, he was about to say some interesting things before Louisoix impaled him in the T9 CS.

---

Well, we have Nael van Darnus as the latest keeper of the knowledge related to Dalamud, and Nael's rather alarmingly unlikely counterpart G'raha Tia as the keeper of the Crystal Tower, so I'd like to hope we'll one day get around to something tying those two stories back together (they both left so many questions unanswered). Hopefully well before XIV pulls an XI and does an "Eorzea Rhapsody" storyline, but who knows.

It would be crazy if you use your echo powers to see the past and play it in a body of a guy who saved the world or played a mayor role and coincidentally looks like you. I would love to play all the eras.

Yeah, in short, Louisoix launched a surprise attack on Bahamut and Bahamut itself didn't expect to be Falcon punched. The falcon punch was enough to destroy Bahamut's body but his heart remain. At the same time, Louisoix released his power back to the realm and prepare to die. Unfortunately, the dying bahamut managed to absorb Louisoix released power and thus able to survive and then he started to control Louisoix. At least from my understabnd of the conversation in t12, if Louisoix didn't choose to release his power to heal the realm, Bahamut would have just die there.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fenral

Hopefully well before XIV pulls an XI and does an "Eorzea Rhapsody" storyline, but who knows.

---

Please explain what an Eorzea Rhapsody has to do with FFXI. Or is that a reference to the back story on RoZ and CoP?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xellos2099

Yeah, in short, Louisoix launched a surprise attack on Bahamut and Bahamut itself didn't expect to be Falcon punched. The falcon punch was enough to destroy Bahamut's body but his heart remain. At the same time, Louisoix released his power back to the realm and prepare to die. Unfortunately, the dying bahamut managed to absorb Louisoix released power and thus able to survive and then he started to control Louisoix. At least from my understabnd of the conversation in t12, if Louisoix didn't choose to release his power to heal the realm, Bahamut would have just die there.

---

This is correct. Louisoix admitted that he underestimated Bahamut's tenacity. He truly believed his task complete when he struck Bahamut, not knowing Bahamut could retain such influence even on the brink of oblivion.

On a related note, the whole incident is significant on another front as well. Bahamut was kept summoned and alive by a combination of the prayers of his imprisoned children and Allagan technology. It was only after you (the player character) destroy his core that his long-captured essence could finally return to the Aether stream, as it is with all primals. What this means is that, with Bahamut truly gone from the world, there is a chance he can be re-summoned in the future now that his Aether is free from the binds of the Allagans. I foresee SE using this opportunity to bring him back at some point in the distant future.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Velox

With Bahamut truly gone from the world, there is a chance he can be re-summoned in the future now that his Aether is free from the binds of the Allagans. I foresee SE using this opportunity to bring him back at some point in the distant future.

---

That's if there are any living Meracydians left, instead of just the ones in the jars we pulled the plug on.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kotemon

Please explain what an Eorzea Rhapsody has to do with FFXI. Or is that a reference to the back story on RoZ and CoP?

---

I was referring to Vana'diel Rhapsody (think that was the name), which is the the "final" FFXI storyline they'll be patching in that brings all the past storylines together; the literal "end" of Final Fantasy XI.

I... would rather not have to wait that long for reunions/answers to plots from 2.X, personally.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nialle

That's if there are any living Meracydians left, instead of just the ones in the jars we pulled the plug on.

---

I think it is hinted Bahamut was one of the son of Midgardsormr. Therefore, if people know he can be sommoned again now, they can do it. But with the story of then final coil in secret, there aren;t many peopel who know the truth.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xellos2099

I think it is hinted Bahamut was one of the son of Midgardsormr. Therefore, if people know he can be sommoned again now, they can do it. But with the story of then final coil in secret, there aren;t many peopel who know the truth.

---

That's backwards. If you think about it, keeping the events of the Binding Coil a secret means most people aren't aware that he wasn't defeated at Cartenaux, and thus wouldn't think there was anything preventing him from being summoned again.

They just released the Flames of Truth video for the unwashed masses to view the Coil T12 cutscene. They intend for everyone to know the Coil storyline going into Heavensward, even if they haven't beaten Coil.

When Dalamud came down and Bahamut emerged, there would've been a lot of solar energy/aether brought to the surface. I imagine when the Phoenix returned aether to the land, that included most of the solar power collected by Bahamut.

Which makes me wonder what means for those aether readings made near the end of Main Scenario.....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zohar_Lahar

Which makes me wonder what means for those aether readings made near the end of Main Scenario.....

---

I'm curious about that, too. It's been stated before that the primals we're used to seeing can't do with environmental aether and need a concentrated form such as crystals. The only exception we know of so far is Zantetsuken itself. I'm curious if that's the connection the game wants us to make, though. It could just as easily be about something else, or not even about the Dark Divinity at all, but I can't help but wonder if perhaps they're setting up a Final Fantasy XI-eque Odin vs. Alexander link.

That "something else" could be Midgardsormr or Nidhogg.

Or Omega Weapon's core unit? Or whatever it is we're supposed to think is stirring beneath the Crystal Tower?

Or it turns out to be some combination of all of the above?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zohar_Lahar

Which makes me wonder what means for those aether readings made near the end of Main Scenario.....

---

Hold on.. refresh my memory please, are you talking about the 2.0 ending or the 2.55 ending? I'm starting to confuse some things with other games that I'm playing ;p

One of the Quests close to the end had us escort a Scholar for some Aether readings, he mentioned them being strangely low.

Technically, 2.0 and 2.5 have aether readings mentioned in them ;p. But I'm pretty sure they meant 2.55's ending. Though it is curious about those readings...I wonder if there is more information on them hiding behind his currently broken NPC in N.Than.

Ive assumed its in reference to Middy saying he will "drink of her (Hydaelyn) body" (AKA, the planet's aether...and im hoping I got that quote right) to make himself a new body

The aether readings were done in the Shroud though, which is quite far away from both Cartenau and the Crystal Tower. They will play some bigger part I'm sure, it would've been such a weird thing to shoehorn into an otherwise intense part of the storyline if not. Now that the internment hulks aren't using vast quantities of aether to regenerate Bahamut there's more for the land... and other things.

I've a feeling the story ofPhoenix ties in with Bahamut and Bahamut prime.

What I think taking turn 12 revelations into account that Bahamut prime is the original Dragon and that the city sized Bahamut is the primal that was created by the dragons whenthe Allagans invaded their home, Just like the peopole of Eorzea prayed and Loisoix became Phoenix.

Thus that theory would fit into keeping dragons under a state of duress to continue to pray to keep bahmutt prime as a Primal,

In other words Loisiox and Bahamut prime are the same, the original form. Bahamutt city sized and Phoenix are them as primals.

If that makes sense ^_^

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by seekified

They [the aetherial readings taken in 2.55] will play some bigger part I'm sure, it would've been such a weird thing to shoehorn into an otherwise intense part of the storyline if not.

---

My leading theory on this is based on another. The latter speculates that the cycle of umbral and astral eras are, at root, a result of the shifting balance in aether within our realm, and that Ascians seize these opportunities to reap what they have sown. This theory attempts to explain why umbral eras are so "bad" for mankind--primals are more easily manifested, voidsent appear to sup on the abundant aether, Ascians orchestrate great calamities in an attempt to extinguish all life, y'know, the normal stuff--and why astral eras are "good".

If the above theory holds true, the decline in aetheric activity recorded in 2.55 hints that we're progressing toward the true 7th astral era. What that would really mean for us and the realm of Eorzea, however, remains a mystery...

Or it could simply mean that there's a great primal somewhere that's managed to pierce Hydaelyn with a giant Capri Sun straw. /shrug

Well, there is alot of things sucking the aether (primals being the prime suspect)

But give most recent revelations could it be possible that Omega is slowly awakening? I imagine it has a program to boot up itself just incase Bahamut breaks free (although it malfunctioned).

Another theory I have is that the aether is being sucked into Zodiark.

While I doubt it, perhaps the 7 wyrmkings answering the call have something to do with it? If Midgard can strip us of Hydaelyn's blessing and consume aether to form it's minion body, just imagine what some of his sons are capable of? After a long slumber they're feasting on aether to get stronger?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by myahele

Well, there is alot of things sucking the aether (primals being the prime suspect)

But give most recent revelations could it be possible that Omega is slowly awakening? I imagine it has a program to boot up itself just incase Bahamut breaks free (although it malfunctioned).

Another theory I have is that the aether is being sucked into Zodiark.

While I doubt it, perhaps the 7 wyrmkings answering the call have something to do with it? If Midgard can strip us of Hydaelyn's blessing and consume aether to form it's minion body, just imagine what some of his sons are capable of? After a long slumber they're feasting on aether to get stronger?

---

The Japanese version translation made me think Midgardsormr and Hydaelyn have some kind of agreement. After all he had a role intrinsically tied to probably the biggest wellspring of Aether on the planet. He also strips the blessing from us to test to see if we are worthy of Hydaelyn's favour. He has his doubts but is willing to watch and look for what Hydaelyn saw in us. I am suspecting we will have him come round to seeing Hydaelyn's way of thinking after we prove ourselves in Heavensward.

Regardless, it's clear that the Ascians have been doing everything they can to syphon of Aether. The Primals are part of this, being such Aether hungry creatures.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Belhi

Midgardsormr and Hydaelyn have some kind of agreement. After all he had a role intrinsically tied to probably the biggest wellspring of Aether on the planet.

---

I currently have the theory that dragons have very close links to Aether... and since disrupting natural Aether flow is part of the Ascians' longterm goal, it's why they started the Dragonsong War (I believe that the 'Halone' who sent the Ishgardians into their 'promised land' and triggered the conflict was an Ascian fake). Killing off the dragons would be a huge benefit to the Ascian's plans.

This link is also why the Allagans enslaved dragons and were using Bahamut/Dalamud as a giant Aether battery power source. Dragons are masters of aetheric manipulation; I'm guessing we will find out that it infuses them to a level more than any other race, I'll bet. Another interesting fact is that if you ask Y'mhitra (SMN quest NPC) about Summoning's history, she states the MERACYDIANS invented the art of summoning Primals. And as of Final Coil we know the Meracydians were dragons. Maybe the very first primal ever summoned was Bahamut himself.

There are a lot of hints here that suggest Dragons are very influential to the health of the planet's Aether (and therefore Hydaelyn). Mid having an ancient pact with her (and having been guarding that massive Aether store under Silvertear) seems to be another clue.