Nice Job on the adds Tanks

Nice job on the adds Tanks...What did you think was inside when you read the title?

"Nice job on the adds Tanks" I said this in WoD after a flawless Cerberus kill. The tanks immediately went on the defensive. Someone finally chimed in " I don't think he was being sarcastic." I had to argue that I was actually giving them a compliment. They finally said thank you and offered this apology. Sorry for misunderstanding but no one ever says anything nice in WoD so I assumed you were being negative.

That was the very reason I chose to say something nice. I have noticed the negativity as well. I have made the conscious decision to say something nice every single run I am a part of anytime I notice someone doing something good or nice. It was catchy, people were all kinds of complimentary towards one another at the end of the run. We all have issues with the game's population at times but what do we do to change it? I challenge you to try looking for someone doing something positive and publicly congratulate them on it and see what happens. I am guessing a few of us could make a difference.

Anyone willing to commit to trying it and come back here and post the results? If you choose to try, do it for a number of runs, do not let any bad outcomes inhibit you. I would love to hear the results of a large sampling. If you witness someone being complimentary report that too. I will be back to let you know how the next couple of days go.

The reason that person was on the defensive is because no one on the internet says anything completely straight; anything and everything is always a sarcastic retort or a bunch of swear words. In your case, I think you could have said "Hey, awesome work on the adds. Kept us alive" would have been more clear.

I'm happy that you had good tanks while in WoD.

Unfortunately, people have been getting rougher in WoD ever since it was unlocked. The people that go through there now is...interesting.

So yeah, happy that you got tanks AND healers that actually did something...but... I'm just going to stand there on my healer...while i90 tanks don't even attempt to get any adds off anyone...ever.

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

The reason that person was on the defensive is because no one on the internet says anything completely straight; anything and everything is always a sarcastic retort or a bunch of swear words. In your case, I think you could have said "Hey, awesome work on the adds. Kept us alive" would have been more clear.

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You're right...That's sad though. I am going to do my best tto change that regardless of what anyone else does. We all need to look for the good in each other and celebrate it.

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Originally Posted by Magusrex

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Hehe, I imediately thought that tanks multiply wiped you at first boss in CT. :D

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Originally Posted by Ophie-Mio

I'm happy that you had good tanks while in WoD.

Unfortunately, people have been getting rougher in WoD ever since it was unlocked. The people that go through there now is...interesting.

So yeah, happy that you got tanks AND healers that actually did something...but... I'm just going to stand there on my healer...while i90 tanks don't even attempt to get any adds off anyone...ever.

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I mark the tanks and advise the raid to bring the adds to them...It helps a ton. It also helps me (healer) see where they are and position myself so I can heal all of them without much moving.

I wish you were on my server. ):
Need more nice people like you...also what Mile's said.
Can't be straight line about it...using smilies like ^^ helps too!

This is so true. When I entered the topic, I thought this was an ironic sentence about how tanks in Steps of Faith REFUSE to take the adds to the front of the dragon even after telling them to do so 300 times.

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Originally Posted by Mugiawara

I wish you were on my server. ):
Need more nice people like you...also what Mile's said.
Can't be straight line about it...using smilies like ^^ helps too!

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TYVM..You're there...THAT COUNTS

Sarcasm relies very much on vocal tone. And there's no real way to differentiate with just the chat without strong context.

It's more typical to hear blame over praise, in most situations really. And without tone, it's not much of a wonder that they where defensive.

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

The reason that person was on the defensive is because no one on the internet says anything completely straight; anything and everything is always a sarcastic retort or a bunch of swear words.

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Sad, but true. In all the years I've been on the internet, I've landed in my fair share of these scenarios as well. I offer a compliment or crack a joke, and I get assaulted for it. I've had to explain my way out of these situations and let the other people know that I was just cracking a joke, or even offering a compliment.

Personally, I believe it's made worse by the mere existence of trolls on the internet, whose only goal IS to make people angry.

Its a sad day when people become so used to negative comments and sarcasm that they cant tell when a legit nice one pops up right infront of them.

Still the biggest issue with the "negativity" isnt the minority that pushes people around, its the majority that rather say nothing and just move along with their head buried in the sand.

Yeah if only http://res.cloudinary.com/urbandicti...q6yzcwubok.png was a more universal emote.

Anyways, Tanks get too much hate and even a compliment can sound like a sarcastic remark. Glad it was quickly settled and they knew you true complimented them

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Originally Posted by Ophie-Mio

Unfortunately, people have been getting rougher in WoD ever since it was unlocked. The people that go through there now is...interesting.

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Right? I think I tank more adds with my monk than the off tanks do most runs. :x

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Originally Posted by Ophie-Mio

I'm happy that you had good tanks while in WoD.

Unfortunately, people have been getting rougher in WoD ever since it was unlocked. The people that go through there now is...interesting.

So yeah, happy that you got tanks AND healers that actually did something...but... I'm just going to stand there on my healer...while i90 tanks don't even attempt to get any adds off anyone...ever.

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It's not sunshine and roses for the tanks all the time either. If a mage or dragoon isn't intentionally pulling, then often tanks are often dealing with this:

00:00 - Add spawns with healer as target.
00:01 - Add switches target to tank and remains there.
00:20 - Add spawns with healer as target.
00:21 - Add switches target to tank and remains there.
00:30 - Add spawns with healer as target.
00:31 - Add switches target to tank and remains there.
00:40 - Add spawns with healer as target.
00:41 - Add switches target to tank and remains there.
00:50 - Add spawns with healer as target.
00:51 - Add switches target to tank and remains there.
01:00 - Dead party: "Where were the heals??"
01:10 - Healer: "Sorry but I had adds all over me the whole time."
01:15 - Tank: "..."

Not kidding.

Yeah, this seems to be more prevalent in tanks, which sucks. We're the first ones that get commendies if we don't botch up too badly though; Healers being a close second. Also CT/ST/WoD are so prone to trolls it's blah.

I'll be honest, I was one of the ones expecting a snarky comment and a WoD horror story.

I had a similar problem when I complemented a tank in ST where I said "Thank you for not waiting 20 mins between each pull" and he immediately thought I was being sarcastic.

Some people just can't take a compliment.

I dunno, I don't want to get too preachy but our brains are filled with so much crap we see and hear already, there is so much negative I want to remind people to be nice. I cannot adequately express the feeling of reward and satisfaction you receive by saying something nice, it multiplies exponentially when witness your act inspire someone else to do the same. I am begging you to try it. Praise all the positive, do not let good deeds go unnoticed, you see someone taking the time to instruct rather than insult, encouraging someone rather complain about them let them know how awesome you think that is. Let no one bring you down or stop you. I know there are people out there who feel the wrongness in the way we often treat each other, we are just a gaming community, let's get noticed for the quality of people I know we can be.

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Originally Posted by Magusrex

Nice job on the adds Tanks...What did you think was inside when you read the title?

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First thing that came to my mind was sarcasm and that this was going to be a thread flaring on the Tanks.
Its good to compliment people, its as nice as rare to see, however I can see how someone can misinterpret this choice of words.
Maybe adding a "no, its not sarcasm" at the end might do the trick xP

Just curious.. How many people opened up this thread with the expectation of finding something; angry comment, sarcastic response, or something generally facetious..?

I usually try to compliment the group at the end of a run and cheer or bow to the group. Some people reciprocate and others just exit. During runs I try to give constructive feedback when I can but sometimes the group moves too fast when I'm running something other than tank for me to say anything. :)

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Originally Posted by AlexionSkylark

This is so true. When I entered the topic, I thought this was an ironic sentence about how tanks in Steps of Faith REFUSE to take the adds to the front of the dragon even after telling them to do so 300 times.

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Or how the people on the cannons will NOT LISTEN when the tanks tell them not to put green shit under the dragon because it prevents them from being pulled to the neck, I love that part.

On topic I agree with OP and Ive been running steps on a regular basis trying to encourage and lead people through it. Having it in the trial roulette can be a nightmare but once the fight is common knowledge there should be less hostility I hope.

Nice thought. ^^ Bad delivery. ^^;
Like others have said, saying "Tanks did really well this run. Thanks guys." would have gone over MUCH better than what looks like sarcasm. :/

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Originally Posted by sciondar

I usually try to compliment the group at the end of a run and cheer or bow to the group. Some people reciprocate and others just exit. During runs I try to give constructive feedback when I can but sometimes the group moves too fast when I'm running something other than tank for me to say anything. :)

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It is comforting to know you are out there. The speed thing is difficult when pushed to the extreme for me too. I actually like to go fast, I wish we could get a small pause after a 2+ group pull to rebuff. When I am with a group that gives a sec to keep up I let them know how much I appreciate it.

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Originally Posted by Sadana

Nice thought. ^^ Bad delivery. ^^;
Like others have said, saying "Tanks did really well this run. Thanks guys." would have gone over MUCH better than what looks like sarcasm. :/

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You're not wrong, my point would be that we should try to put more positive out in the world so that " Nice job on the adds tanks" typed is taken positively. It would be nice if the recipient said TY and IF it was intended to be sarcastic the issuer would have to say "it wasn't a compliment"

As a tank main...if that was said to me, especially if nothing went wrong, I would get defensive. Why? 99.999% of comments like that are sarcastic insults when directed at tanks. I've been berated many many times for nothing at all or for other people's mistakes; I've considered several times to not tank for randoms, but I still do because I can't stand bad tanks even more than the insults. (bad thing about being a good tank, the bad tanks are even worse to you than other jobs...same thing applies to heals seeing bad heals and dps seeing bad members of their job)

If you want to compliment a tank, just make sure it doesn't have sarcasm in it.

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Originally Posted by Magusrex

You're not wrong, my point would be that we should try to put more positive out in the world so that " Nice job on the adds tanks" typed is taken positively. It would be nice if the recipient said TY and IF it was intended to be sarcastic the issuer would have to say "it wasn't a compliment"

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While I like your "change the world" ideal... I think a better start would be to compliment DF randoms just by saying nice things in an unmistakably honest tone. The next step would be to change folks' reflexively negative response to things like "good going". ^^;

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Originally Posted by PArcher

As a tank main...if that was said to me, especially if nothing went wrong, I would get defensive. Why? 99.999% of comments like that are sarcastic insults when directed at tanks. I've been berated many many times for nothing at all or for other people's mistakes; I've considered several times to not tank for randoms, but I still do because I can't stand bad tanks even more than the insults.

If you want to compliment a tank, just make sure it doesn't have sarcasm in it.

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It didn't have any sarcasm " Nice jobs on the adds tanks" typed contained no sarcasm, I typed it. i know what I meant and intended, the sarcasm would come from me so I would know if I was being sarcastic. I do not type well so I am at time terse.

Don't think I am complaining about tanks here. I play both. I am commenting on the fact that they receive so much negative feedback they assume it is sarcastic. That's not their fault, it is ours, we need to give more positive feedback to change their outlook.

For what it's worth, most of the wipes I have seen on Cerberus revolve around the adds. I Mark the tanks and advise the raid to bring them to them. I also Mark the Tanks because I can be better healer if I know where they are and where they are moving to, so I can heal them effectively. I place my highest priority on keeping them alive, If one dies, it is my fault even if the tank is not my group. There can be mitigating circumstances but if I take that attitude it makes me a better player and the runs I participate in more successful.

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Originally Posted by Magusrex

I place my highest priority on keeping them alive, If one dies, it is my fault even if the tank is not my group. There can be mitigating circumstances but if I take that attitude it makes me a better player and the runs I participate in more successful.

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Hmm, this may be a bit of a dangerous mindset to stay in. While it's laudable that you work very hard as a healer to do your job to the best of your ability, sometimes tanks mess up on their own (lord knows I've done lots of dumb things as tank) and it is NOT your fault that they die. The reason I say it is dangerous is because it's a bit harsh (even to yourself) and I fear you may turn around and criticize another healer for not doing their part as you see fit. :/

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Originally Posted by Sadana

Hmm, this may be a bit of a dangerous mindset to stay in. While it's laudable that you work very hard as a healer to do your job to the best of your ability, sometimes tanks mess up on their own (lord knows I've done lots of dumb things as tank) and it is NOT your fault that they die. The reason I say it is dangerous is because it's a bit harsh (even to yourself) and I fear you may turn around and criticize another healer for not doing their part as you see fit. :/

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I have been leading raids since EQ1. It has always been my fault. I could have come up with a better strat, explained it better, wrote up better guide, made a better video, chose a better roster, spent more time analyzing parses. Encouraged or demanded more depending on the circumstance. Supported my guildies better, found a better way to communicate insufficiencies so that they would have been taken better ect.

Tanks make mistakes, I make them when I play them. I can't make you avoid mechanics, but if you are avoiding those, with my gear, setup and experience, I expect to keep you alive. I heal other healers too.

What I am getting at...it is in my DNA. I motivate myself to better by taking responsibility. I want to be exceptional and ant to help others be the best they can be. I have taken reponsibiility for failures that were not my own and it gained me loyalty and inspired others to take responsibility themselves.."no Magus, it was my fault, I can do better"

The title says something else at least from my experience in wod. My runs i am pretty much the tank as blm.
And good for you OP, we do need nicer people in game, way too much negativity of tanks learn how to tank, healers you suck or dps your damage is too low

One of my good RL friends rolled a warrior. We did FC runs until 50 and we had a bunch of fun. After a few very bad experiences running raids and trials(hard) He retired his tank, got too embarrassed and now all he does is craft. I can't give him the confidence to try again, he won't even play for us because he is afraid he sucks and we are too nice to tell him. He doesn't suck, it takes him a few more tries than some to learn the timing of mechanics. He responds to encouragement and gets tense and plays worse when insulted, pressure gets to him. It is part of the reason I want to make it my business to give people some positive reinforcement and hope other will too.

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Originally Posted by Magusrex

One of my good RL friends rolled a warrior. We did FC runs until 50 and we had a bunch of fun. After a few very bad experiences running raids and trials(hard) He retired his tank, got too embarrassed and now all he does is craft. I can't give him the confidence to try again, he won't even play for us because he is afraid he sucks and we are too nice to tell him. He doesn't suck, it takes him a few more tries than some to learn the timing of mechanics. He responds to encouragement and gets tense and plays worse when insulted, pressure gets to him. It is part of the reason I want to make it my business to give people some positive reinforcement and hope other will too.

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Have him do hunts and beastmen quests till he can afford a weathered set. That should be enough to start with.

Magusrex, I can understand the nervousness your friend feels with tanking as I have my moments of uncertainty too. As suggested by Gramul, having your friend build up the weathered set will help him not be so squishy if he feels that way and it will give him more opportunities to practice being a tank if you or someone else goes with him. The amaljaa quests would be a good area to ease him into it.

He tanked every instance up to 50 with us, did all the normal trials, even some hard mode dungeons. We finished, sometimes it took a couple tries for a boss but it was fine. We were all on Raid Call so I helped him a bit. He went off on his own and people crushed him for just one or two mistakes. I'm trying, I tell him it doesn't matter, I have a better time with him than strangers, he wont tell what was said. It hurt him bad enough that he is never playing his tank again. He has requested I stop asking him, so I wont push. He started an archer but we had grinded him up to gear lvl 110 with soldiery and poetics. It just kinda sucks, he doesn't want to go through again.

I rarely have anything nice to say about WoD groups unfortunately.

Bad luck, or are terrible, apathetic groups really that common?

"Nice job on the adds tanks! :)"
"Nice job on the adds tanks...."

"Nice gear dude!"
"...Nice gear dude"

"Oh my god it's huge!"
"Oh my god... it's huge..."

"My Dragoon has a long shiny spear!"
"My Dragoon has a long.. shiny.. spear.. ;)"

It's the little subtle things that makes the difference in typed conversations so it's no wonder really if someone get's the wrong idea, even if the message was meant as something positive.

I have a similar experience as a healer from a World of Darkness run. . The tank in my party was main tanking and the other healer was not as geared. I kept the tank up during the first boss, but a few of the dps died so when the fight ended and the tank said "Nice heals Senah" I honestly wasn't sure if it was a compliment. So I just continued on with it and after Cloud of Darkness they complimented me again and I was like oh they weren't being sarcastic. I got five commendations, too. It was a pretty awesome feeling.