Practice Dungeons

I would like to open the thread with a clap to SE for their expansion. /clap /happy

Now, let's get down to business. Tanking and healing newbies. A lot of people would expect a rush of both the classes, come Heavensward (Dark Knight and Astrologian). They don't only have cool looking weapons but they are also a new experience.

The issue I predict is that some players will have difficulty in their roles. Some will just blindly go to dungeons and spam the first combo or healing spells and not experiment around. Also, some others are new to the roles and cannot take up such a complex class in such a manner (a 50 DPS taking up lvl 1 DRK, and expecting the same simplicity).

Therefore, I would like to suggest a "training dungeon" similar to the one of the GLD class quest where you have to take agro off your ally or he'll die and fail the duty. Similarly, I would also like to suggest a "training grounds" for healers, where he has to heal mutliple targets efficiently and effectively.

These training grounds, or "Practice area", should not give you any rewards or cost anything.

I think this would prove useful for beginners to the roles and veterans alike.

So basically guildhests?

Yeah, that's pretty much what guildhests are designed for. You get thrown into basically a single encounter which is designed to teach a particular new mechanic, the early ones deal with absolute basics and subsequent ones build on it from there. Unfortunately the game does a pretty poor job of explaining that's what they actually are, which is a shame because they're short, fun little challenges and you get a ton of XP for your first completion on each class.

They already have that in guildhests and class quests. Early dungeons are basically a tutorial anyway if people have not figured things out by level 50 it's hopeless. There is only so much hand holding you can force on people you are told everything you need to know leveling up.

If anything there needs to be more checks for DPS, and not for Tanks and Heals.
It's very easy to see you're doing Tank/Heal wrong, while (without parsers...) DPS are hard to track and arguably have more min/max potential.

I agree with Guildhests being practice sessions and exposure towards new mechanics.

However, the guildhests are queued and have rewards, and you're doing it with other players.

What i was suggesting was sort of an instance you go in alone, with several other NPC's that are your allies. They perform a set of action and players will have objectives similar to a normal dungeon role. These instances will only be a short while and no rewards. The difference between these instances and guildhests are not just queues and in terms of rewards but also in terms of more controlled environment. Players need to perform a set of action (pertaining to their role) effectively and they will succeed it.

While I was thinking on this, I was remembering a Sastasha run where the tank has no idea what to do. Even if he has done a guildhest before (I thought there was a mandatory quest for it?) he still doesn't know what to do and how to do it. Therefore, I thought instead of letting him dive right into a fray and maybe letting other people die (making them angry, mad, frustrated), maybe let him run a "practice instance" first where there are guides on how to do this and that.

Now I know that some people rather just teach people how to do it (like I did to that Tank, from the basic to the advanced), but in my experience, first timers in Sastasha practically don't know what to do except hit the monster with your stick. Class quests are just for one time execution, and guildhests can be repeated again and again but requires other players which can lead to external factors impacting a different situation every time it is done.

I was just suggesting a guide of step by step execution of roles in dungeons. Holding hands if you want to call it that. These runs are practically OPTIONAL and the only goal was to teach the players the BASIC jobs of a role.

It's just a suggestion.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Spoekes

If anything there needs to be more checks for DPS, and not for Tanks and Heals.
It's very easy to see you're doing Tank/Heal wrong, while (without parsers...) DPS are hard to track and arguably have more min/max potential.

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This could be fun. Something like the original Demon Wall (why did that even need nerfing?), best DPS check in 4-man dungeon content yet.

More on topic, I think that perhaps a solo version of guildhests should be added to the class trainer progression that explains the basic mechanics of your class. Not only could this give you stuff to do inbetween class quests (these solo hests could be available every 2-3 levels) up to level 15, where it's time to start thinking about group content a little more and you should have a handle on your role.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Spoekes

If anything there needs to be more checks for DPS, and not for Tanks and Heals.
It's very easy to see you're doing Tank/Heal wrong, while (without parsers...) DPS are hard to track and arguably have more min/max potential.

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Can we please have a Guildhest for BLMs that causes a bolt from the heavens to strike them down when they use Freeze as part of an AoE rotation?

They already exist. And people that have levelled up DPS and ignored playing in the tank/healer roles will have at least grasped the core of their jobs just through observation if they've levelled even halfway sufficiently.

Considering this new format of being able to level these jobs from 1, perhaps they could meet in the middle and make some of this group stuff more mandatory to their class quests. A dark knight may sound like a lone wolf, but maybe for lore purposes, their mentor figure could push them to embrace the assistace of other jobs. Just an example. One that may pave a way for character development at that.

Rift had this for some of their raids. you didn't get raid drops, but there was a chance of getting a cool mount.

I don't see the point of the suggestion. When Ninjas were released there was no such thing, yet the dedicated players reached an incredible level of play within hours, starting from absolutely scratch. On the other hand, despite all those tutos, levequests or dungeons to help players learn how to tank, heal or support as a dps, well... what to say...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LYagami

So basically guildhests?

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I wish dungeons were more like Guildhests. There are concepts used in GHs that are used literally nowhere else in the game, I.E. the redbelly one with the conjurers. That concept does not show up again unless you happen to queue Wolves Den / Frontlines.

The problem with the dungeons is that they teach by endless repetition without much elaboration. Tanks are never FORMALLY told how to control, check and manage enmity. DPS are never really told to do anything but spam rotations on enemies for 30 minutes at a time. Healers...well, luckly their job is straightforward.

Most of the good stuff doesn't show up outside Primals or raids.