Healer Buffs

Am I the only one who has noticed an increase of people who are not willing to wait an extra 30 seconds for buffs at the beginning of dungeon runs?

You guys do realize that as a healer if I can buff the party with Protect, Stoneskin, Adloquium(for tanks) and Succor (everyone else) prior to a pull that this allows me to start off in Cleric Stance, throw up DoTs and DPS before I even have to start thinking about healing?

A lot of the replies I've been getting from people lately is "I'm in a rush" or "just do it while I pull".

For the people who don't want to wait that thirty seconds for pre-pull buffs, why? I'm genuinely curious at this point.

Short answer: people are stupid.
Long answer: people are selfish and stupid.

Impatience. :)

In 4ppl contents such as ex roulette, I'll try to stoneskin everyone (mostly the tank) right before the last mob is killed, which means a pre-cast at about 5-10%.
In primal fights ppl pay much more attention to this so it's ok for me... but in raids it's just impossible to prevent because there's always someone in other alliance ninja-pulling. As WHM a Stoneskin2 will actually cast on everyone who haven't been involved into fight (especially if you were already casting when it's pulled, in most cases it's just the tank who didn't get it) but if this is happening too often, I'd consider Swiftcast+Stoneskin2 before it's too late, tho in some battles it's a waste of cooldown (e.g. 1st boss in WoD or 1st trash mobs in CT, some ppl just die at the very beginning).

If you're taking 30 seconds to pre-buff I wouldn't want to wait for it either.

But yeah, if they're literally just zooming off before even Protect lands on them, they can just go without it for all I care.

I just let them die and laugh.

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Originally Posted by dayspring83

For the people who don't want to wait that thirty seconds for pre-pull buffs, why? I'm genuinely curious at this point.

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I am not a speedrusher but if you're taking 30 seconds, that is some time there lol.
Personally, I quickly SC use protect after the Duty Commence thing pops up, put SS on tank, succor everyone and that's it.
It takes less than 15 seconds. Still wish they gave us AoE SS on SCH. :/
Doesn't matter, if I get a tank like this, I'ma just watch him go to town on mobs and he gets killed, leaves and be's
a big crybaby but I will still try to heal and cast protect and whatever I need to do so I don't stoop down his level too and get us all killed so eh...
I never had an impatient tank like this though that didn't want buffs.

I still don't understand how impatience or "wow speed rush time" mentality makes people do this. Protect takes, what, 2.5 seconds to cast? I've had runs where literally the only reason we wiped was because the tank didn't have protect, and that +15% armor would've made all the difference in whether that cure II or adloquium finished casting before he died. A wipe costs more time than the 2.5 seconds it takes to cast protect. Even without an actual wipe happening, having protect up will SAVE more than 2.5 seconds due to less healing that the healer needs to do, which can possibly become more cleric stance time.

It has always happened and will continue to happen. As a main healer, I just go with it and learn to adjust. Usually upon entering I swiftcast out a stoneskin II then cast protect. Usually never have a problem because people tend to wait for protect. Plus, this takes all of what.... 5 or 6 seconds? And even if they do rush in, I just cast protect then swift a stoneskin out on the tank.

Just as it's the tanks job to keep aggro, it is your job to ensure the party is buffed and ready for battle regardless of the situation. I like it when parties throw me a curveball. Doing every run the same every time is insanely boring. So if the tank wants to go all Leeeeeerooooyyyy! I just go with the flow.

At the moment, I'm trying to get with a good enough party to take down Garuda (story mode) and I'm waiting these days for it now, compared to dungeon running earlier in the game, where I went in almost instantly. For me as a tanker, it'll take a minute or more (currently at 5 mins average waiting time on Zodiark, I think), for just a healer to join up, unless a dps drops out in the process.

I don't get the speedrun mentality at all. I mean, you have an hour and a half to finish most dungeons, 2 for raids. Only time time should be an issue is if you've wiped a few times. Aside from that, the only other reason to rush through is if something came up and you really need to go... wait, no, then you should be apologizing and using the Leave option while asking your linkshell/company to send someone to fill in for you. There's really no reason to try and push a speedrun unless EVERYONE present wants it. Everyone playing this game is free to play at their pace, their $10 a month guarantees it. Don't like it, too bad, your $10 a month doesn't give you any more rights than the next person.

If they can't wait for Protect and a Swiftcasted Stoneskin II... well, I just cast and whoever it lands on is who gets it. I'm not going out of my way for people that won't wait 5 seconds for buffs.

why even bothering doing all that ? protect, SS + adlo (if eligible) on tank and roll on. dps shouldn't need any protection in 4 men content.

I don't mind terribly if a tank doesn't want to wait while I stoneskin myself and dps, as I usually buff the tank first. I'll put up buffs on DD's during the tail end of a pull. But when the duty commences, I start casting protect, and the tank pops sprint and runs off to the horizon, that's when I get a little miffed. It's like improperly putting a rear facing child seat in the front seat of your car, putting on no restraints, and driving to the supermarket at 65mph. Sure, there's a good chance you'll get there fine, but if something goes wrong, it's going to hurt. Just take a few seconds, buckle up for everyone's good health, then go nuts.

I've noticed this even in low level dungeons like Sastasha and Tam Tara. People can't wait the 2 seconds it takes to cast protect. (I play WHM, so no SS at that level.)

Gotta go fast for that zodiac

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Originally Posted by Mugiawara

Doesn't matter, if I get a tank like this, I'ma just watch him go to town on mobs and he gets killed, leaves and be's
a big crybaby but I will still try to heal and cast protect and whatever I need to do so I don't stoop down his level too and get us all killed so eh...
I never had an impatient tank like this though that didn't want buffs.

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You remind me of a tank in Ifrit nm when I used roulette to lvl up my MNK. He must ran out while one of the members was still in cs or loading (I was watching party list as my healer's habit) and when suddenly got hit by AoE I was like, "wut ?! aren't we still casting Protect? O_o" He must have soloed all the way up to 20 because he was pulling Ifrit EVERYWHERE and running through the whole arena. You can imagine what a disaster that means to a MNK...

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Originally Posted by AnaviAnael

I've noticed this even in low level dungeons like Sastasha and Tam Tara. People can't wait the 2 seconds it takes to cast protect. (I play WHM, so no SS at that level.)

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If I see a new player's green icon next to their name, I just pretend that they do not even know the existance of Protect... That happened to me 2 or 3 times.

Btw, I was using SS as cross-class skill before my pugilist became monk so it was actually my pugilist who buffs SS on everyone in dungeons before lvl30. LOL.

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Originally Posted by AyaneSL

If I see a new player's green icon next to their name, I just pretend that they do not even know the existance of Protect... That happened to me 2 or 3 times.

Btw, I was using SS as cross-class skill before my pugilist became monk so it was actually my pugilist who buffs SS on everyone in dungeons before lvl30. LOL.

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This is true, new people don't usually know about other jobs' buffs.

And that's awesome. SS monk. xD I see some people doing that too.

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Originally Posted by Gilraen

...Don't like it, too bad, your $10 a month doesn't give you any more rights than the next person.

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I think this post comes from a good place, but the majority of players I encounter who have been through all the content at least once want their duties completed faster for their ~$10 per month.

If there is a brand-new player, I won't advocate a ridiculously fast speed-run, but in that case there is a happy medium between pulling 2 mobs at a time and pulling an entire section.

If one dungeon genuinely took 90 min to complete, those of us with 1+ Zodiac Weapons would have by now perished of sleep deprivation or at least have lost our jobs.

Just cast it on them while they run in. Impatience on them.
Later in raids, you can expect green means go. Adol.
So rejoice. Soon, soon.

I cast on whoever don't move or get it. I don't Eben bother to buff them even if they ask until we get to fight a boss. They didn't want to wait I don't want to buff for something they don't need ( according to them)

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Originally Posted by AyaneSL

You remind me of a tank in Ifrit nm when I used roulette to lvl up my MNK. He must ran out while one of the members was still in cs or loading (I was watching party list as my healer's habit) and when suddenly got hit by AoE I was like, "wut ?! aren't we still casting Protect? O_o" He must have soloed all the way up to 20 because he was pulling Ifrit EVERYWHERE and running through the whole arena. You can imagine what a disaster that means to a MNK...

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Actually! I forgot a funny story. Once in CC I was not ready yet, no one was protect or anything and the tank had to go fast because he had literally ran for his life into the mobs as SOON as the little circle thing was removed.
So I stood there...boy I was dying because I had Eos out, he ran allll the way back to me and was lucky Eos had saved him a bit before I started to heal...I said "Please wait okay? Let's buff up first"
He said "Okay, I'm sorry. :("
-_- I said "It's okay." and he left...really? I forgot to mention since this was about 1 and a half years ago. I kinda felt bad but come on man lol.

You can cast protect mid fight... at best it would lower your dps by a a cast or two, at worst it will make you do something while waiting semi afk for the next moment to heal.

As for Trials where people are rushing, it's farm content, they need to do many, many, many runs for whatever they'r doing so all the time they can win adds up. Just expect a rush if you see stuff like Garuda HM come out of your roulette and swiftcast protect or if you know how to time it, pre-cast protect and SC the aoe stoneskin.

People have never waited for buffs. I remember the days when my WHM had to cast stoneskin one person at a time and if I didn't buff them before things died, they'd run off without it.

It really peeves me when you'd get stoneskin/adlo on the tank as they pull and then you have instant hate and die. Then they proceed to chew you out because they couldn't wait half a second for the freaken buff you were already casting while they were running.

I hardly see how every bit of mitigation you can possibly pre-apply is going to add up to 30 seconds worth of dps from everyone else in the group.

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Originally Posted by SarcasmMisser

I hardly see how every bit of mitigation you can possibly pre-apply is going to add up to 30 seconds worth of dps from everyone else in the group.

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Because when the tank is properly buffed that gives the healer more time to DPS. If the tank is losing HP as soon as he's done pulling and the healer needs to spam heal him are they going to have time to DPS? No. Sure, in theory the WHM can use Holy 3 times to stunlock so the tank doesn't take damage for a few seconds. But who's healing them? No one. And if you have an undergeared tank or a tank who doesn't pop buffs then there is a risk of them dying or using a powerful resource like Benediction. It's much safer and easier if the tank is buffed before they pull. if they're not fully buffed, then healer might not bother to DPS at all and a healer's DPS is worth a lot more than the few seconds it takes to buff between pulls.

Quantify it, how much damage are the others doing in that 30 seconds they had to stand around for a healer that takes that long to buff? How much damage are the healers doing? It's just a useless discussion unless you can prove it.

you don't even need protect or ss to clear a dungeon.

As a tank I always wait. Once had a WHM get mad at me for not pulling right away, said he was going to buff as I was tanking the first pull of mobs. Was also in a group once in ST were all 3 of us tanks were watching each other and the group as a whole to keep things neat clean and in order. No hate issues no adds left unchecked, we even did a ready check before pulling. On the first boss a bard ran in and started kiting the boss before ready check was done. On the second boss he did it again and after we got the boss back from him everyone started yelling at us, calling us names and saying we were lazy and slow tanks. On the 3rd boss we started a ready check, saw the bard moving in and just ran in anyway, people were still talking down to us. 4th boss we didn't wait at all just ran in and hit it, locked 3-4 people out of the fight one of which was new. Everyone was happy then.

So don't be to quick to blame tanks and tanks alone for this, healers and dps are at fault too sometimes.

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Originally Posted by SarcasmMisser

Quantify it, how much damage are the others doing in that 30 seconds they had to stand around for a healer that takes that long to buff? How much damage are the healers doing? It's just a useless discussion unless you can prove it.

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It doesn't literally take 30 seconds. On a WHM it's 3 seconds for protect, 5.5 seconds for Stoneskin II and an additional 3 seconds for anyone missing Stoneskin. So without Stoneskin II and without the healer having pre-buffed themselves, in a 4-man party that is 15 seconds of buffing. On a SCH it's 3 seconds for protect, 3 seconds for stoneskin, 2 seconds for Adlo, 2.5 seconds for succor. So to fully buff a party it is 20 seconds. I'm pretty sure OP said 30 seconds because it's less than a minute and more than 10 seconds and they probably didn't sit down and do the math because there's no need for them too.

As for how much damage a healer does? My WHM's Holy's do 800-900 each. I do 3-5 Holy's depending on my tank. So if I did 5 Holy's and they each hit for 900 each, I'd be doing 4,500 to each thing I hit on top of what the party is doing. That burst is worth it.

Can you read the OP? you're not the topic creator they are, and they said 30. Don't make it about you no one was talking about you.

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Am I the only one who has noticed an increase of people who are not willing to wait an extra 30 seconds for buffs at the beginning of dungeon runs?

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Originally Posted by SarcasmMisser

Can you read the OP? you're not the topic creator they are, and they said 30. Don't make it about you no one was talking about you.

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As I said, they probably said 30 because it takes more than 10 seconds and less than a minute. It's easier to go halfers with 30.

And you asked for numbers, so I gave you numbers. I don't know the item level of everyone here or the damage they do, so I went with what I have. If you don't want an answer, then don't ask a question.

It's easier to round up what on earth are you saying? That the OP was just hyperbole? If it was why would you disagree with my post that is more or less calling that out? Why not let the op say what they're thinking, my first post was directed at the op and you come dashing in projecting yourself in his place like an imax, like you have a horse in this race. You don't know what they were thinking, everything in their defense is talking about you not them and you are clearly not seeing a spade for a spade. You are seeing something more than "30 seconds is too damn long to wait for healer buffs" because by your own admission it is too long, even if you don't use swiftcast for whatever reason, and instead treat the discussion as a partisan debate between 2 extremes.

This is another thread that we come to see that it is not the the fault of the healer/tank/DPs but the person/player behind the screen playing whatever class s/he wants.

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Originally Posted by SarcasmMisser

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You never directed your post at anyone, you happened to reply while I was still in the thread so I answered. You wanted specific numbers, so I gave them to you with the stats I had on my own healers. I'm sorry that my information wasn't good enough for you. OP isn't going to answer everyone, so I figured an answer was better than none. But since you don't want my opinion and you're clearly so butthurt over it, I have no problem not continuing this conversation with you.

I've rarely had runs in which the Tank would instantly take off on me before I even start casting buffs, but I've had those moments too. I mean seriously, it doesn't even take very long to cast Protect:

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Originally Posted by ShorreasAeatose

I still don't understand how impatience or "wow speed rush time" mentality makes people do this. Protect takes, what, 2.5 seconds to cast? I've had runs where literally the only reason we wiped was because the tank didn't have protect, and that +15% armor would've made all the difference in whether that cure II or adloquium finished casting before he died. A wipe costs more time than the 2.5 seconds it takes to cast protect. Even without an actual wipe happening, having protect up will SAVE more than 2.5 seconds due to less healing that the healer needs to do, which can possibly become more cleric stance time.

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^ Ding ding ding ding.

In the rare instances of which I DO get a Tank that takes off like all of time itself is against him, I'll try to remedy the situation by blowing Swiftcast on Protect instead, but that means no Swiftcast of Stoneskin II for the team during the first pull, as that's where the real amount of regular cast time is. But hey, at least Protect is better than no defense buff at all. (And Protect doesn't blow up in a few seconds from enemy attacks either)

I don't mind speed rushes, but even speed rushes requires a functioning brain. At LEAST accept the damn Protect first before taking off.

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Originally Posted by Selli

You never directed your post at anyone, you happened to reply while I was still in the thread so I answered. You wanted specific numbers, so I gave them to you with the stats I had on my own healers. I'm sorry that my information wasn't good enough for you. OP isn't going to answer everyone, so I figured an answer was better than none. But since you don't want my opinion and you're clearly so butthurt over it, I have no problem not continuing this conversation with you.

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Your maths stinks anyway so what else would I discuss with you? I didn't ask how much damage holy does I wanted a break down on the difference in comparison to the difference of other jobs based on the assumptions in the OP and if you can't describe that in maths then there's no discussion to be had. If you are not interested in using real maths then don't go making claims that are only proven by maths.

But then you didn't want to talk about what the OP said.

I hate when people run off, and i'm trying to cast buffs on them. "Then they're all like, Where is my protect?". Then i'm like well if you'd wait a damn minute i would give it to you.

If a missing stoneskin or protect at the beginning of the dungeon is causing trouble for a group and possible wipes... the REAL problem isn't the lack of healer buffs. Anything that COULD be warded off with those buffs can be healed through as well, unless we are talking about tanks who do massive pulls. The buffs are nice and should be up whenever possible, but they shouldn't make or break anything pre-endgame.

Some people just gotta go fast, and while it can be really dumb and inconsiderate, so is jumping into a dungeon and wasting several minutes "getting ready".

Of course, I throw all consideration out the window when I do guildhests. Nothing more fun than blasting through a guildhest at top speed while level 15ish players stammer about me ruining their roles. "But I'm supposed to tank.. you aren't supposed to damage, what are you insane?" TANKING MEGA DAMAGE WHITE MAGE ACTIVATE!