"The RMT 'Special Task Force' is apparently 3 people." discussion

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Originally Posted by Zabuza

I originally heard it from this guy.

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As the aforementioned "That Guy" (I love being "That Guy", btw, thanks!) figured I would just leave a (semi spoilery due to credits background) image here.

http://i.imgur.com/zThJSmy.png

Just figured it needed a new post, so people could find it easier.

Quite the revelation, and explains so many things indeed.

P.S. I get to be a "That Guy" too. I'm that guy who gets quoted in the OP yay!

i should care why?

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

i should care why?

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Because a good portion of us are sick and tired of the RMT spam, and seeing that SE has assigned less people than are assigned to the cash register at my local convenience store, to the entire issue among 64 servers, is laughable at best.

in other news, these 3 people have my greatest respect. They must be the most overworked people in existence at SE.

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

i should care why?

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If you don't that is fine, but I'm sure a lot of people who have been fed up with the RMTs would be privy to know this information.

If they only have three people addressing all RMT and enforcement issues, then I am greatly disheartened.
It's bad enough that non-RMTs only get a suspension (which I'm guessing is shorter than a month), but the idea that all of the bots/hackers (both RMT and not) that I've seen won't even get that token slap on the wrist because staff is too bogged down with chasing after RMT spammers just.. is really straining my tolerance and poisoning my hopes.

Hire more people. Push for more efficiency.
As far as things have stood for the past year, it's felt sickeningly clear that it's okay to cheat in the game. And that kills me all the more because I like the game.

If this is true, it needs to be addressed immediately.

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and seeing that SE has assigned less people than are assigned to the cash register at my local convenience store, to the entire issue among 64 servers, is laughable at best.

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Couldn't have stated it better myself. This needs to be rectified like...yesterday. As in, hiring 20-30 employees specifically to dealing with this issue. Players are being harassed on a MINUTE basis. On Brynhilder it is commonplace to get between 2-3 gilspam tells a minute & it is breaking immersion/ruining the gameplay experience.

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Originally Posted by tocsin

Because a good portion of us are sick and tired of the RMT spam, and seeing that SE has assigned less people than are assigned to the cash register at my local convenience store, to the entire issue among 64 servers, is laughable at best.

in other news, these 3 people have my greatest respect. They must be the most overworked people in existence at SE.

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This wouldn't be necessary if the game had a built-in report function the way WoW does.

You get an RMT tell => Right click on the spammer's name and hit "Report for Spam" on the dropdown menu => game notes of the person being reported and mutes that person for you (meaning they can't send you any tells) => move on with your life.

Instead what we have is 200 spaces on the blacklist that are a drop in the bucket compared to the number of RMT accounts out there. THAT's why things aren't exactly great in that aspect.

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Originally Posted by Zanarken

Couldn't have stated it better myself. This needs to be rectified like...yesterday. As in, hiring 20-30 employees specifically to dealing with this issue. Players are being harassed on a MINUTE basis. On Brynhilder it is commonplace to get between 2-3 gilspam tells a minute & it is breaking immersion/ruining the gameplay experience.

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I hope you're being sarcastic. 20 people only to monitor for RMT activities is a huge waste of resources. The problem can be dealt with but via something built into the chat window. This way our three amigos get reports for RMT spam without creating the flood of incessant repeat tells from the same guys.

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Originally Posted by Zanarken

On Brynhilder it is commonplace to get between 2-3 gilspam tells a minute & it is breaking immersion/ruining the gameplay experience.

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Time Period: Mar. 26, 2015 to Apr. 1, 2015
Bans: 10803

10803 bans / 6 days
= 1800 bans / 1 day
= 1800 bans / 24 hours
= 75 bans / hour
------------------------------------
= 1.25 bans per minuet
or 1.17 bans per hour per server.

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Originally Posted by tocsin

Because a good portion of us are sick and tired of the RMT spam, and seeing that SE has assigned less people than are assigned to the cash register at my local convenience store, to the entire issue among 64 servers, is laughable at best.

in other news, these 3 people have my greatest respect. They must be the most overworked people in existence at SE.

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im never sick of it cause i get 1-2 a week max lol and as for ur cash register comment all super markets in my town incorporated self serve to cut back staff soooo :P

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Originally Posted by Duelle

You get an RMT tell => Right click on the spammer's name and hit "Report for Spam" on the dropdown menu => game notes of the person being reported and mutes that person for you (meaning they can't send you any tells) => move on with your life.

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...and after 250+ people have reported them in this manner, they are muted globally. I suggested this years ago lol.

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Originally Posted by synesthetic

Hire more people. Push for more efficiency.
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This is money taken away from other parts of the game and put into the RMT squad. Do you want less content for FFXIV?

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Originally Posted by Chiramu

This is money taken away from other parts of the game and put into the RMT squad. Do you want less content for FFXIV?

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Personally, I would trade one less pretty vanity dress per patch, for 20% less RMT spam per day.

Good trade off to me.

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Originally Posted by Chiramu

This is money taken away from other parts of the game and put into the RMT squad. Do you want less content for FFXIV?

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By improving the in game experience they will save money as they will retain more new players. I'm sure quite a few new players have left when the first thing they see is their chatbox filled with spam.

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Originally Posted by Magictrix

...and after 250+ people have reported them in this manner, they are muted globally. I suggested this years ago lol.

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And yet here we are, using blacklist spaces and still getting tells from the same people. =/

So, now that people have looked at the photo, ill offer my theory.

I believe that The STF is the equivalent of Level 2 IT support. The GM's handle the minor things, like banning gil spammers, and submit tickets on the "gil holders".

The STF team, goes to 1-2 servers per week, and investigates all tickets for that server, uprooting the RMT tree on that server and banning it all out of existence.

This is why We each have a different week that RMT goes almost dead for a week or two.

It would make sense on why such a small group can accomplish so much. They are experts in tracing where gil comes and goes, and can ban everyone related. Each week, the number of buyers temp banned were probably all form the same 1-2 servers.

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Originally Posted by Chiramu

This is money taken away from other parts of the game and put into the RMT squad. Do you want less content for FFXIV?

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Them spending more doesn't need to equate to lost content. The thought that less RMT activity could lead to higher subscription retention would be more 5hink good cause to budget in more task force employees.

Personally I'm sure these 3 aren't the only ones involved but it's still abundantly clear more resources need to be allocated to this issue.

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Originally Posted by Chiramu

This is money taken away from other parts of the game and put into the RMT squad. Do you want less content for FFXIV?

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Is this some type of a joke? 500k+ subbers, cash shop, initial game price, and upcoming expansion, which could be well over $130, and you're saying SE can't afford tech support to prevent cheaters from ruining the experience of their game?

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Originally Posted by Spawnie

im never sick of it cause i get 1-2 a week max lol and as for ur cash register comment all super markets in my town incorporated self serve to cut back staff soooo :P

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Good for you that you don't get as much spam. I don't get that much either, due to being on a server that is full and frequently locked for character creation. And when I do, my whole FC usually gets them at the same time and we laugh at the ridiculous gibberish names of the characters sending the tells and friend requests.

Doesn't mean it isn't still a problem, though. There are more people in the world than you and me, and they clearly have very different experiences.

If they had a process where a handful of select, long tenured players on each server who went through an application and selection process could serve in a moderator type capacity for few hours a week each month in exchange for not paying a subscription, the actual SE employees could oversee/review their efforts at a higher level, such as with appeals, and it would cost almost nothing compared to hiring even one additional employee. I'm sure there's players out there who for budgetary reasons, or because it's a way they'd want to contribute, who could meet some high standards. I'm thinking standards of conduct and behaviour so high that I wouldn't even make the cut based on some stuff I've posted and said now and then, and I consider myself to be a pretty good Eeorzian citizen. In game moderators to put a stop to this quickly at the time/place it happens is what's missing, and if at different points in the day one person or another was anonymously logged in to each server to deal with that only and not socialize/craft/etc while on that moderator toon thats invisible or looks like a regular player to observe bots, get RMT tells, etc it would make a difference.

Such a solution would be more complex than I described, but as an overall concept it's more effective than whatever system we have now. And someone trolling from this kind of position would be caught out in an appeals process fast if they even made it past screening, so not likely.

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I hope you're being sarcastic. 20 people only to monitor for RMT activities is a huge waste of resources. The problem can be dealt with but via something built into the chat window. This way our three amigos get reports for RMT spam without creating the flood of incessant repeat tells from the same guys.

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20 people to monitor RMT activities is necessary. As of right now, the 3 people on the special task force are barely scratching the surface on this issue. Since I started a few months ago, it has gotten exponentially worse. I've played dozens of MMO's & FFXIV has the worst moderation I have seen to date. Not only do I expect to see the harassing tells ceased, I expect to see every player engaging in the purchase of gil via RMT permanently banned no exceptions, I expect to see botters permanently banned, I expect to see players associated with match fixing PVP/Triple Triad Tournament permanently banned. At present thousands of players are running around with no integrity for the game & will abuse any mechanic they are permitted to do so. I'm no fan of Blizzard but when it comes to their special task force, they get sh*t done. Exploit a raid or mechanic? Banned no excuses. That is the type of enforcement that is needed in FFXIV.

How do we know special task force is in charge of rmt?

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Originally Posted by papichulo123

How do we know special task force is in charge of rmt?

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From the SE site: http://support.na.square-enix.com/co...?id=5382&fty=2

Report a case to the Special Task Force


You can contact the Special Task Force (STF) to report illegal activity within FINAL FANTASY XIV: A Realm Reborn (such as the use of third-party software or the use of RMT* to sell game data).
The Special Task Force exists for the purpose of dealing with illegal activity in FINAL FANTASY XIV: A Realm Reborn while creating an honest and enjoyable gameplay environment.

(*RMT = Real Money Trading)

Note:
These forms are intended to submit information to the STF team and not a means to receive assistance with other issues.
Although we actively review every form we receive, we are unfortunately unable to provide individual responses.
Please note that the STF team cannot provide assistance with compromised accounts.
If you require other support, please contact the SQUARE ENIX Support team from the link contained in the relevant FAQ.

I would happily, and without additional benefit to myself, serve in some form of in game management system. In the MMOs of old (I'm talking last millennium here kids) we were self policing and had far fewer problems, even taking the size difference into account. We also had trusted players/users with an elevated status who could deal with minor issues.

I think that's definitely needed in this game. There's a multitude of possible safeguards that can be employed to prevent misuse of power too.

I think a lot of the responses to this thread are drawing upon information they don't really have.
In the real world, special task forces aren't "the only guys in charge of this." They're "the guys fielding all the information about this to be distributed to the rest of the staff."
In other words, they're like detectives whereas the regular GMs and such are street cops.
Their job isn't to track down every single RMTer, their job is to investigate and find the connections, to make sure the blanket ban actions actually hit the intended targets. And given they've thrown out tens of thousands of bans and I haven't seen any people reporting being accidentally hit with the banhammer, I'd say they're doing their job well.
Yes, there needs to be more tools for getting rid of them...but I have a feeling these three guys are telling their bosses the same thing every day.

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Originally Posted by Chiramu

This is money taken away from other parts of the game and put into the RMT squad. Do you want less content for FFXIV?

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Even a small handful, or potentially even just one, talented programmer is enough to come up with and implement a solution. You shouldn't have to have a team of people dedicated to manually hunting down and banning RMT spammers or attempting to bring down networks of them, if that's what really is going on. That's horrendously inefficient, and people gravitate towards being lazy, so people make tools to make onerous tasks faster and easier. If 10k accounts were banned in a week because a bunch of people were staring at screens all day, checking, "spammer? ban. spammer? ban." then they're denying their own humanity!

Efficiency buys you laziness! (or at least frees up time and resources for other endeavors)


Let's take a shot at how to handle RMT spammers, for example.

- When messages are sent to their server, check certain chat messages (tell, say, yell, shout) for common RMT keywords, and flag the account for suspicion if something matches, add the account to a list, and log those messages.

- If checking each one strains the system too much, then make it intermittent. Considering spammers are most likely sending out many dozens of tells per second, the chance of catching a spammer's line over regular chatter should be pretty easy.

- Periodically parse the suspicion list by accounts. If any of them show up more than some threshold number, then automatically suspend it and kick the account's current character from the game. Depending on how fallible the filter was at catching legitimate RMT phrases, maybe a security check is needed and employee can later glance at the log for these suspended accounts and issue a ban.

- Notify the owner of the account that they've been banned. If they want their account back, then they need to verify their identity through security questions and then change their password. If the account is reclaimed, then flag it as having been previously banned for RMT. If they get autobanned for RMT again, then permaban. (Or after however many second chances is reasonable.)

After programs are set up, no manpower is required to stop spammers aside from maybe occasionally updating RMT keywords/patterns to match by, and each one should be stopped relatively quickly.
I imagine that at worst, we'd start seeing complaints from people getting banned supposedly unfairly--it always happens. But we have security tokens or the free app for a reason... And then eventually you'd get complaints that the app is such a hassle. It's like measles and vaccines.

Now if this would free up manpower, like GMs as suggested, then maybe I would see some enforcement of rules finally happen. I will grudgingly accept it when someone argues, "how can you prove that someone is 100% botting? i have a friend who just grinds while watching netflix." even if it's a stupidly-obvious bot. But as is, I can send in a video of a player teleport-hacking, and nothing will happen to him. I'll see him every day, cheating and flaunting it still.

[/rant]

If I may.

The problem is not that the special task force is only 3 people. If the special task force were 3 software engineers capable of developing and implementing automated solutions for detecting and silencing RMT spam, there would be no problem.

The STF is clearly not, though. The only reports of activity ever given about the STF are bans. Manually conducted bans. Case reviews that, in other categories, have teams of at least 20 people working on the issue queue, and likely more. It's clear that the STF needs both more manpower to handle individual case reviews, in addition to a very small team of software professionals that can actually create automated solutions.

This is not baby's first tech startup, this is an MMO that just announced its first expansion with a physical CE priced at $120 USD minimum. Trying to "cut costs" in the RMT management department is like saying you need to "cut costs" in user information security or that you need to "cut costs" by letting people shoplift your store. Sorry, nada.

Don't forget that the STF is also responsible for investigating erroneously banned accounts. Remember at game launch when you got hacked and it could take up to 3 months for your "identity verification investigation" to go through? Yeah, that's because this is a glorified customer support role with special ban/unban privileges, not an actual tech team with the resources they need to solve problems.

I also saw only seven total Game Masters listed for English -- three senior and four normal. I think Germany had like 15.

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Originally Posted by Zanarken

Not only do I expect to see the harassing tells ceased, I expect to see every player engaging in the purchase of gil via RMT permanently banned no exceptions, I expect to see botters permanently banned, I expect to see players associated with match fixing PVP/Triple Triad Tournament permanently banned. At present thousands of players are running around with no integrity for the game & will abuse any mechanic they are permitted to do so. I'm no fan of Blizzard but when it comes to their special task force, they get sh*t done. Exploit a raid or mechanic? Banned no excuses. That is the type of enforcement that is needed in FFXIV.

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Sorry, but I'm not into witch hunts. All I care about is whether or not my chatbox is getting reamed by repeated tells offering me gil for real life money.

Again, get RMT tell => right click and hit Report for Spam => have spammer muted and looked into by the three amigos. Whether they issue bans and such is on them, not I.

From what I see they are not the sole responsibility for RMT. Seems that they are the ones who may have more "tools" to use to investigate them, like tracking transactions to see who is actually involved. GM's also play a part in the process. Like someone said, the GM's are the front line people while the STF deals with "intelligence" so to speak.
We do seem to be lacking in GM support as there is a job posting on SE's site for it here in the US. Looking at that job description, would back that up:

ESSENTIAL DUTIES AND RESPONSIBILITIES:
In-Game Support:
· Resolves in-game customer calls via proprietary tools.

Resolve concerns including but not limited to inappropriate language, grief tactics, game errors, and game cheats & exploit issues through investigation of server records.

Review and process disciplinary action on customer accounts in violation of the rules and policies governing our online games.

Stay current on all elements of the project and community through the official website and other resources.

Accurately and concisely document customer call history or disciplinary action through proprietary tools.

Compile a daily report to the shift lead.

Stay up to date with most current rules, policies, and procedures.

Escalate issues to appropriate offices when necessary (IE: report to STF)

Oversee projects to ensure deadlines are met.

Assumes floor lead responsibilities as need.

Other related duties as required.

Anyone wishing to apply and help make a difference: http://chj.tbe.taleo.net/chj03/ats/c...X&cws=1&rid=95