Post pointless PvE abilities and how you'd make them relevant.

Example

Freeze. Instead of being a long range Blizzard 2 with no application and expensive on the MP cost...

Let it be a combo off of a Blizzard 1, or 3 spell.

Covers a designated area in ice, dealing ice damage with a potency of 100 and binding enemies that enter.
Combo Action: Blizzard 3.
Combo Potency 100.
Combo Bonus: Encases the ground in ice, dealing Ice Damage with a potency of 40 to all that enemies that enter.
Duration: 20 seconds

Edit: Inb4 SMNs rework their entire job facepalm

Nah. Some tweaks here and there.

Tri-Disaster's potency increased OR applies damage over time. AND cost decreased.
Enkindle cast time reduced to 2 minutes OR made to run off Aetherflow OR bound to pets. (That last one is a tad harder.)
DoTs applied by user, and damage done by pets. is made clearly visible. (You have NO idea how far something like this would go towards making SMN fun to play.)

I'd like to see some synergy between Freeze and Flare that would give Freeze a place in AoE rotations. Perhaps a 20 second debuff on targets hit by Freeze that drastically increases damage taken by the next Flare spell, with said debuff consumed.

At the same time, Flare would have the chance to apply a Flash Freeze buff to the caster to make the next Freeze cast instantly and without MP or something.

My idea is for something comparable to or very slightly better than the current AoE rotation, but with Freeze having an actual use outside of town.

"expensive on mp cost" meaningless for a BLM a class that doesn't have mp issues, ever. Especially since freeze also gives you an umbra stack lol. In PvP I could sit there and continuously spam freeze if I wanted. Actually thats what most of us do thats how we quadruple Cometeor an entire party lol. One freeze just to get them to use their purifies followed by another and dooooooooooooomed. The only thing they should change about freeze is perhaps take off some of the enemies resistance to bind in high level PVE content.

OT: SMN rework it entirely.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vallhallix

"expensive on mp cost" meaningless for a BLM a class that doesn't have mp issues, ever. Especially since freeze also gives you an umbra stack lol. In PvP I could sit there and continuously spam freeze if I wanted. Actually thats what most of us do thats how we quadruple Cometeor an entire party lol. One freeze just to get them to use their purifies followed by another and dooooooooooooomed. The only thing they should change about freeze is perhaps take off some of the enemies resistance to bind in high level PVE content.

OT: SMN rework it entirely.

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The issue is about PvE, not PvP.

The situations where you would want to Bind enemies in PvE are exceedingly rare, and a slow-casting AoE splat isn't ideal in a pinch. Even if Bind weren't guaranteed to break upon damage received, Freeze would still gather dust.

Basically, Bind effects are next to useless in PvE, especially as they work now.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vallhallix

"expensive on mp cost" meaningless for a BLM a class that doesn\\\\\\'t have mp issues, ever
.

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Lol @freeze giving UI stack.

this is true of course but this is absolutely irrelevant in any situation. Do you really use this crap spell to go back to UI phase? Even in PVP there are plenty of smarter things to do with a better dmg output. Not even talking about the cast time.

I wonder if you ever BLM. Skeith mains BLM in the hardest content (see his dozens of post in the BLM theorycraft thread) and so do I (im maining blm in PVP rank 44 as well). Dont troll him he knows what hes talking about.

Freeze does not worth its MP cost. Having infinite MP doesnt mean that you should waste your MP points with useless spells. You need to associate high damage output for every single MP point used even if your MP is free and freeze is FAR from that

I agree with Skeith 200%. Freeze is absolutely useless in the current design. this spell wtf

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vallhallix

"expensive on mp cost" meaningless for a BLM a class that doesn't have mp issues, ever. Especially since freeze also gives you an umbra stack lol. In PvP I could sit there and continuously spam freeze if I wanted. Actually thats what most of us do thats how we quadruple Cometeor an entire party lol. One freeze just to get them to use their purifies followed by another and dooooooooooooomed. The only thing they should change about freeze is perhaps take off some of the enemies resistance to bind in high level PVE content.

OT: SMN rework it entirely.

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Your credit as a BLM already disappeared here
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/m...58#post2084158

Tri-Disaster: True to its name, Tri-Disaster instantly summons all 3 Egi's for 20 seconds. (Long recast)

(yeah I know this isnt very realistic)

What I would like from Tri-Disaster as someone who has played summoner.

Make it instant oGCD. Have it Stun the monster for 1-3 Seconds, Bind the Monster for ~12-20 Seconds, Have it increase the duration of all Dots placed on the Monster by 15seconds. Give it a 2-3M Cool Down.

Get rid of Garuda's Contagion skill and give it something else. Maybe a strong single target skill or a DoT of its own.

What I would like as a BLM to happen with Freeze and Bliz 2.

Freeze places a debuff on the monster that increase damage done by all fire spells. Make Bliz 2 require no MP while in Umbral Ice.

This means a new AoE Rotation can be (Low MP) Flare > Transpose > Bliz 2 Until first Tic > Freeze > Fire 3 > Fire 2 Until Less than 1100 MP > Flare > Transpose.

As a Monk

One ilm punch needs to be useful in some form. I have no idea how they could make this skill better, I honestly wish they would just remove it and replace it with a oGCD skill that refreshes your GL or gives you one stack of GL with a ~2Min cooldown.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ossom

One ilm punch needs to be useful in some form. I have no idea how they could make this skill better, I honestly wish they would just remove it and replace it with a oGCD skill that refreshes your GL or gives you one stack of GL with a ~2Min cooldown.

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Another option might be making it affect more buffs, though that would still be niche and would probably be OP in that niche. . .

Yet another option might be replacing it with an aggro dump.

Make Feint OGC with an appropriate length cooldown.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ultear_Milkovich

Even in PVP there are plenty of smarter things to do with a better dmg output. Not even talking about the cast time.

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Freeze in PvP is not about damage its about locking a party in place. That's its sole use, and its very effective.

Lol you're going to teach me how to BLM in PvP. I have the highest kills or am among the highest in damage output with the lowest KO's every match on both my BLM and SMN (feel free to message for screens). I've never died more than once as BLM in a match and the only time I do die is if my party is horribly overwhelmed though if I see thats whats going to happen usually I back off and regroup. 14 + kills when my team is good, 6+ 140k + damage dealt average with a pug team without using a single LB (and i'm talking terrible, healers not healing, party members all over the place) and if its premade this is whats going to happen to your team (http://i.imgur.com/qgWbnAU.png) and that was before Slaugther when we could cometeor spam. Heck even if i'm being lazy i'll still get atleast 6-8 kills. Most games I am the single reason the opposing team gets overwhelmed so quickly and i've done this by always sniping the trouble causing classes first and protecting my healers the minute some lowly NIN/PLD/DRG attacks them if I don't kill them I send them running back to their healers mostly I just kill them though and I will flare, stack scathe and phantom dart to scratch away any last chunk of health and throw a lethargy on them for good measure so the other party members (melee especially) can catch and strike them too before running back to their party. Matches go a whole lot slower when i'm playing as a WHM it seems. Though even as a WHM I play pretty aggressively. If my team is taking too long to kill things I get anxious, run over to one standing a little too close to the edge, and "this is sparda, or erm Eorzea. If they're close enough sometimes I run behind them and push them into my party to get mauled. Heh if pushing people off cliffs counted as kills i'd probably have more kills as a WHM than some of the DPS lmao I remember pushing atleast 7 off one match. I always get 5+ coms whenever I leave a session.

Anyway I know how to BLM and SMN they aren't hard classes, among the easiest in the game. On my SMN I was right behind the MNK in our FC dps. Probably would still be had I not got bored with SMN and made the switch. You act as if putting out massive damage on a class with the hardest hitting initial burst in the game is hard. Want to impress? get those numbers in PvP with a MNK. I use every tool the BLM has at its disposal including Aetheral manipulation, so far I think i'm the only one who actually utilizes that ability. On Midgardsormr I was in the top every week. Even if another BLM in the party manages to out damage me I almost always have the most kills. Give me a few days (switched to Balmung) I will be on this server too. What point did you have with the second post, so I don't rant and whine on the forums 24/7 ok? I love the game, doesn't mean i'm supposed to spend hours upon hours on the forums complaining i'd rather being playing. Freeze of no use in PvP yeah tell that to the team that got cometeor spammed by 5 blms. Sometimes its even better than sleep since you can actually target it. Cordination with your party brah, having multiple mages spread it out locks down the entire opposing side no matter how spread out they are. If you haven't learned this, then you aren't blm'ing well and would be better off going in as another class since you don't understand BLM in PvP is not a powerhouse just because its damage but because of its utility. Also I think your gf can speak for herself no need for WK'ing.

I just don't understand how there can be ANY complaints about BLM it's still the most op class in the game. I mean what do you want? you have a class with high burst damage, the best AoE in game, a class that sustains itself a class that neither needs support from any other class or regenerative skills to continue outputting high damage. The class only has one weakness that can be easily rendered a non issue with a decent player, and that's moving. What could you possibly want for a BLM that would not make them more broken?

Make Hyoton actually freeze enemies for a long period of time to help CC, or speedrunning.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HeavensSword

Make Feint OGC with an appropriate length cooldown.

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And make sure that 90% of Eorzea isn't immune to the damn thing. Seriously, this move could be such a great way to mitigate damage for tanks it's not even funny, but as it is now it becomes a 100% useless skill before you even hit level 50.

Repose

Sleep

Sleep II (?)

Slow attacks (Feint, etc)

Slow movement spells

Binds

Certain monsters in dungeons hit a lot harder;
Pairs of monsters that work together with debuffs (One of them increases target's damage taken, the other decreases healing done, for example). They would be deadly together but easy to kill alone.
Certain monsters would go into a rage increasing their damage/defense/speed/AoE and you'd have to sleep/kite them with slow/stunlock/freeze them until their rage is over.

Basically, make the game more tactical and more intelligent to play. I'm not saying do this for allll the dungeons, but certain, harder dungeons. Maybe Extreme versions of current dungeons.

Rain of Death should apply the disembowel debuff (does not stack with Disembowel).
Quick Nock spam shouldn't be the most efficient way for Bards to AoE (it is, currently). This would make the WV>RoD>QN combo viable again, and slightly help DRG and BRD AoE dps at the cost of more TP.

Awareness: Yeah, best defensive skill into pvp, but it is not so great into pve. Add a evasion buff to it, something like a untreated feather foot.

Tempered will: Another pvp skill. Buffing your CD to 30 sec will make this less 'meh'. Anyway! Who needs to avoid a knockback every 180 sec?????

Edit: Ops, it is a dps forum lol sorry

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vallhallix

hot air

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Even if i had fun reading all your stuff (esp. the part when you said that you never died more then once in a PVP which will make any PVP veteran laugh...) you prolly missed something important.

This is about PVE. So yeah we maintain that freeze sucks.

On a footnote im disappointed by your attitude. You re prolly a very young person because your posts always express extreme opinions w/o any nuances.

On your old posts you stated that blm was a "boring low dps turret job". And now you re "this OP blm who makes the party wins coz BLM too OP"

The truth is that BLM is not weak and boring. nor it is OP or godlike. The BLM job as its weaknesses and strenghts and this is why i love it. Good blms know it. And deal with it and make the job shine. Not you.

Imho people saying "X Job sucks" or "X job is too OP" dont know anything. You re one of them.

Because with the job balance the reality is in the grays and not full black or white.

Read a little more carefully as nowhere did I say that I only died once in PvP. BLM still is a turret job how is it not? My comments on BLM being boring was based on my Thaum which was the most boring class in the game to level. It was absolute torture, but in the end I stuck with it and now I main BLM instead. BLM's rotation is still quite boring, but the big numbers make up for it. Considering that I am an avid Pvper and have been since frontlines released I know what i'm talking about.

That's my main issue, your continued baseless accusations and elitist behaviour, don't do that. Some classes have more advantages in PvP than others those two classes are Bards and BLMs. BLMs rule PvP (range in general rules PvP Slaughter especially) they are in the top damage output wise and usually have the most kills every session and to this day are the only class (other than a BRD or SMN if they just dot everything the whole match) that rivals or surpasses my damage output.

I never said that BLM is not the top class in terms of kills/damage dealt in PVP esp. in Slaughter.

I said that you can NOT consider BLM being OP in any shape or form in PVP.

BLM is like heavy artillery. It does tremendous damage to the foes OK but you need a lot of people acting as support with you.

If you leave Frontlines (slaughter being broken) for a bit and then go into Wolfes Den then you wont feel OP with a monk/bard duo chasing you and LOSing you while a good SCH cures all their sleeps. Not OP at all. But yeah in Slaugther if you keep hiding in the middle of 24 other guys then you will feel mighty. More than the melees who have generally low scores.

But again this has NOTHING to do with the thread so please open your all stuff into the PVP section

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dyne_Fellpool

Rain of Death should apply the disembowel debuff (does not stack with Disembowel).
Quick Nock spam shouldn't be the most efficient way for Bards to AoE (it is, currently). This would make the WV>RoD>QN combo viable again, and slightly help DRG and BRD AoE dps at the cost of more TP.

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You'd be be taking the only utility DRG has and giving it to a job that will never lose its raid spot in the foreseeable future.

Isn't that basically every class in the game? the only classes with extreme survivability lacking support are tanks. (perhaps good SCH/WHM too).

I ran wolves den endlessly with SMN/BLM sucessfully before frontlines came out. They were strong in Wolves den too. You understimate how bad most players in PvP are outside of premade. Oh yeah BRDs are rough if you don't get the jump on them. But like MNKs and NINs they're incredibly squishy. If you get atleast the tiniest advantage over them (getting a fire III out first and then casting Equanimity and manawall for good measure) you can ruin them swiftly. MNKs and NINs? their hits tickle and you can destroy them before they even make it to you if you're on point. WHM's have 1v1'd them. DRG is the the top melee in PvP because of their burst, and the only class besides tanks ofcourse I resort to to raging strikes + virus + phantom dart + lethargy run and scathe tactics if they get the jump. Infact I save all those c/ds just for them. DRGs jumping is the real caster destroyer. SMN is better though at handeling melee when they have the advantage.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HeavensSword

You'd be be taking the only utility DRG has and giving it to a job that will never lose its raid spot in the foreseeable future.

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Eh, it's impossible to keep rain of death up for long periods of time. The TP cost is just too high for it; you'd have to cut out other GCD attacks to make it work. On the opposite side, DRG isn't going to Disembowel every mob in an AOE pack.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

Eh, it's impossible to keep rain of death up for long periods of time. The TP cost is just too high for it; you'd have to cut out other GCD attacks to make it work. On the opposite side, DRG isn't going to Disembowel every mob in an AOE pack.

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Exactly. Disembowel would not lose any significance because a bard could NOT keep Rain of Death up very long. It costs 180 TP and is only 100 Potency per target.
The change would only really affect AoE phases, where it would help DRGs since all the mobs they were AoE'ing would have the Disembowel debuff instead of just maybe 1.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vallhallix

snip

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This thread is about PvE abilities. Every response so far has been about PvP, which has absolutely 0 purpose in this thread. I can't care how l33t you are in your PvP. Good for you. Freeze, is absolutely, purposeless in all PvE content. Please stay on subject lol

I have a much more interesting concern with a BLM spell and would like to get Skeith\\'s opinion on this.

We already know that - as long as you have a decent SSP score - B3 T1 B is master race in terms of UI phase. See Puro\\'s if any doubt. Of course T3 is still used for Thundercloud proc. And with a SCH you can open with T3 at pull regardless of your PIE.

For baddies who have 480 SSP - they could just stick with B3 T3 since it benefits from low SSP setups (SSP weight dropping from 0.282 to 0.26 or lower with B3 T3). Nobody cares.

Then what is T2 good for? OK it provides an alternative, 2nd best UI phase rotation (B3 T2) but it requires 251 PIE and you re at risk to wait for like half of a tick. I tested it back in the days when SCOB released and never parsed better than T1 B.

IMHO T2 could be much better if revamped as - idk - an AOE spell like B2 or F2. We cant afford an almost useless spell just for people who prefer the 251 PIE UI phase.

Any idea?

As a BLM who over stacks SSP (643 with food atm) i would like to see T2 made relevant again by some awesome AOE re design because i have absolutely no use of it.

Same with Freeze which i only use sometimes in PVE for the lolz. They could put a new binding spell in the next PVP panel and replace freeze by an "ice flare".

Last spell i rarely use now (in PVE) being Ice2 but as it is Xclass i can imagine they will keep it as a low profile spell in order to prevent make other jobs too OP with it. But i used to be a good spell in the past before the huge nerf it had (i think it was 2.1 or 2.2 when they removed thunder from the Xskills and put ice 2 instead)

Swap Axe Kick with One Ilm Punch. :> Unless Dispel will actually be something we can do to raid bosses, (or even most bosses), in the near expansion. Like Pacification! Although, I think that has slightly more use even than One Ilm Punch.

I could definitely see Thunder 2 having an AoE effect, but it'd force the individual thunder spells to have their own DoT application, similar to 'Miasma/Bio' and 'Miasma II/Bio II'. Perhaps having each spell overwrite each other would prevent issues, in theory. (Casting Thunder 2 while a Thunder spell is ticking, overwrites the Thunder DoT and applies a Thunder 2 DoT) I can also see it becoming pretty powerful, though Flare would probably overwrite its power anyways. Maybe limiting the amount of targets it could hit down to like, 3 enemies.

What I'd like to see from thunder spells, if I'm allowed it dream lol, is:

Thunder 1: Grants a 5% chance after each damage over time tick to cause the next Thunder, Thunder II, or Thunder III to add its full damage over time amount to its initial damage, have no cast time and cost no MP (Literal Thundercloud definition)
Thunder 2: Grants a 10% chance after each damage over time tick to burst, spreading Thunder damage over time to up to 3 nearby targets.
Thunder 3: (insert thundercloud definition). Combo: Thundercloud. Combo Effect: grants a 20% chance on successful hit to grant the user a Fulmination stack.

Burst: Deals Lightning damage with a potency of 300-500(throwing out numbers) to a target and enemies near it. Only available when under the effect of Fulmination. Additional Effect: Lightning Damage over Time. Potency: 35. Duration: 24 seconds.

That would give each thunder spell its own identity, allowing BLMs to have a little more spice into into different scenarios and keeps the randomness of the BLM class large enough to keep it from being OP.

I really like rain of death giving AOE disembowel.
Feint needs to be off-GCD (just so it's something you can do when soloing mobs w/o feeling like you're wasting a GCD) or do something else entirely.

On Thunder. I like having Burst in there but I wouldn't change it up too much. I think it's fine to have thunder 1 for hard-casting and t3 for the proc. Make Thunder 2 an AOE like the other *2 spells and have it apply a Miasma 2-ish potency DOT with minor damage that can still proc thundercloud. Then Burst then has prohibitively high mana cost and cast time and a moderate cooldown. It can burn the thundercloud proc like any other Thunder. You throw it on any enemy with thunder DOT on it. Causes them to explode dealing highish AOE damage damage and reapplying the weaker thunder DOT..
The idea is that on AOE you'll probably proc it and get to use it thanks to the Thunder2 being on everyone but you can't use it over and over for free since it's on a cooldown timer. Against single targets you'd use it on the thundercloud proc whenever it was up but t3 the rest of the time.

I don't know what to do with freeze. It'd be nice if it was good filler for an AOE umbral phase? Or even like a chance at easier recovery from Flare somehow.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ultear_Milkovich

Snip

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This is a very good idea, come to think of it. I can't remember the last time I used T2 when not level-synced.

Thunderstorm? Can we have this?

I like the idea of Thunder II being an AoE DoT, we need more of those. As for Freeze, I wish it was similar to Flare in terms of power and design. While no, as powerful, but still viable. Maybe have it add a magic debuff, or something, similar to Paladins Rage of Halone; reduced magic for 30s or so. Tri-disaster needs major adjusting. Either make it a GCD move that is its own thing, like deals 100 potency damage to all enemies in range, or an off GCD move that effects your current DoTs or deals elemental damage. And with Enkindle, just shorten the duration already, its not a powerful enough move for a five minute cool down.

Haymaker duration should be extended, not the slow effect but the amount of time it lasts. Maybe it should also give a stack of greased lightning. I love when it procs because it's actually a DPS increase (and it conserves TP). The problem with it proccing is that it never should since you shouldn't be taking damaged. But the amount of potency this ability has is great, so if all Debuffs and dots are on an enemy and twin snakes won't fall off and this ability procs, it IS a DPS increase, albeit a minor one. This is why it should have potency increased, or the counter period should be longer so that you can fit it in properly, OR it should give a stack of greased lightning. Sometime I pop featherfoot and stand in a physical AoE or something if I let my healers know just to proc it. One good application is dodging mortal gaze too.

SMN dots need to be instant cast. Since were always applying them to multiple targets because SE nerfed our Bane, and Bane only spreads 3 out of 4 dots.

Blizzard 2 removed as a cross class and replaced with thunder... Because we already have tridisaster... What's the point of a positional aoe bind when the ranged aoe bind can be used the same and you could just increase the DMG on tridisaster putting it on par or above blizzard 2 since its our native aoe DMG/Bind

Rework SMN entirely. Keep annoying/pestering community until SE confirms intent to fix SMN instead of just remaining silent on the matter which is beyond annoying. They screwed up, they need to just admit it and promise to fix it...

Summoners had thunder before lol

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Originally Posted by Altijacek

Summoners had thunder before lol

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Yep. They should have it again. It was a pointless nerf. Bane used to used to spread to all targets in range as well, and they nerfed that too. Those nerfs need to be reversed.