Help me understand t10 a bit

Here is my question, we cant seem to beat out the enrage timer. We have all the mechanics pretty much down, we burn through the adds with little issue, but it seems like we just cant get past that enrage timer. Is the enrage timer just a DPS issue?

Well how many stacks does boss have in add phase after there all dead?

first add 6 typically and second 8

Well that's certainly good enough.
hmmmm, the only thing I could guess is that maybe your dps are worrying about/watching for the mechanics and are slacking off on dps.
this is a common issue and is why a tank often calls mechanics out.

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Originally Posted by Kyomagi

first add 6 typically and second 8

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Ok sounds like the dps are killing them quickly enough second about the same in last phase are the healers having to res lots/are dps dying if not dps might just be low

If your bard has MP, the Foe's should be up. Is it usually up? I'm spitballin here :P

ya foe is usually up

typically we have two blm 1 brd and one melee

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Originally Posted by Kyomagi

ya foe is usually up

typically we have two blm 1 brd and one melee

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Ok any deaths usually in phase 3?

Got a parse? Would help to see where your raid DPS is.

inb4 "parses r illegalz"

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Originally Posted by Kyomagi

ya foe is usually up

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Hhmmm
Perhaps your OT at the time could dps more aggressively? This isn't the issue (if the tank's dps makes that much of a difference this late in the game, something else is drastically wrong.), but it may push you to victory.

A parse would probably help, but highly likely that it is due to losing DPS while handling mechanics at last phase. They have 2 BLM, if the 2 BLMs aren't adept at handing movements, the group DPS can easily go downhill.

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Originally Posted by Zaft

Got a parse? Would help to see where your raid DPS is.

inb4 "parses r illegalz"

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See SE? This group is struggling with DPS, and a parser would probably allow them to fix their issue VERY quickly.
But no, bads in dungeons might get bullied. From personal parsers. That only the player would see.
Nevermind the fact that if the DPS is bad enough to get "bullied" for it, everyone else already knows the bad is bad.
LOL plz SE. Parsers plz. PS4.
Plz

Looks like either there are death during the last phase or dps focusing on mechanic and losing too much dps because of it. One of my earlier clear of t10 with pug, the adds phase was fine, but we still hit enrage due to death in the last phase.

It sounds like your group needs to get more comfortable with the mechanics and learn how to compensate for the movement in the last phase. t10 doesn't get easier just because of gear upgrades, it gets easier as people become more comfortable with moving around safely and still managing mechanics.
Additional questions: What's your group's composition?

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Originally Posted by Anubis_Nephthys

See SE? This group is struggling with DPS, and a parser would probably allow them to fix their issue VERY quickly.
But no, bads in dungeons might get bullied. From personal parsers. That only the player would see.
Nevermind the fact that if the DPS is bad enough to get "bullied" for it, everyone else already knows the bad is bad.
LOL plz SE. Parsers plz. PS4.
Plz

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Actually since we know they're hitting the "minimum" for the add phase transition, a parse would need to be "tiered", i.e. you'd need to fire it up after the last add phase to get an accurate representation of what the numbers are.
A flat parse of the whole fight would give too broad a picture.

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Originally Posted by kyuven

Actually since we know they're hitting the "minimum" for the add phase transition, a parse would need to be "tiered", i.e. you'd need to fire it up after the last add phase to get an accurate representation of what the numbers are.
A flat parse of the whole fight would give too broad a picture.

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This is entirely possible through multiple ways.

Two black mages is kinda bad, but certainly shouldn't be hurting your ability to clear T10 very much.

Are you using melee LB when the gauge fills up the second time? Cos you should be.

Otherwise, get one of your black mages to change classes. That'll help, assuming they can perform just as well your group dps will be a lot better.

the last couple times we got to phase 3, by time someone died, the enrage timer was coming in anyway.

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Originally Posted by Anubis_Nephthys

See SE? This group is struggling with DPS, and a parser would probably allow them to fix their issue VERY quickly.
But no, bads in dungeons might get bullied. From personal parsers. That only the player would see.
Nevermind the fact that if the DPS is bad enough to get "bullied" for it, everyone else already knows the bad is bad.
LOL plz SE. Parsers plz. PS4.
Plz

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please dont derail my thread, trying to figure out my dps issue in t10, not about bullying people in DF

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

Two black mages is kinda bad, but certainly shouldn't be hurting your ability to clear T10 very much.

Are you using melee LB when the gauge fills up the second time? Cos you should be.

Otherwise, get one of your black mages to change classes. That'll help, assuming they can perform just as well your group dps will be a lot better.

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omg three straight posts >.<

but ya, i am actually gearing my ninja for t10. This group is my old FC and good friends of mine, so i dont mind going nin. my fc group im the only BLM

but i agree, i have mentioned that we only need 1 caster dps in t10

Will agree with some of the posters - if you're getting the two add phases down at those stacks, it feels like you're not DPSing hard enough during the none add phases, specifically the final phase where it's most mechanic heavy.

Do you time your phase transitions? About how long into the fights are you hitting the first and second add phase?

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Originally Posted by Kyomagi

please dont derail my thread, trying to figure out my dps issue in t10, not about bullying people in DF

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I don't think he meant to derail things. It's just nigh-impossible to figure out your problem without any sort of actual numbers to look at when there isn't an obvious "Oh, I wasn't supposed to stand in that?" kind of issue going on.

Instead of asking about stacks (they're running two black mages - it'd be easy to push adds), can you tell us how many rings are left after the last set of adds?

Many groups I see approaching enrage have center + 1-2 rings left when the lady add dies. Ideally 2 should be your MINIMUM.

Last* add dies, sorry.

Since you mention that when someone died it's already almost enrage, the only reason I could think of it's low dps during last phase due to mechanic. I look at one of my group earlier clear video, we got 7 stack and 8 stack for adds phase, our bard dc during the first add phase, we still clear before enrage.

thanks everyone. we have 1 ring left after last add. we had two once but positioning issue caused a wipe

From what I recall the inner circle lights up after 10m30s with the total group dps for the entire fight being 2150 to just beat the enrage. With no specific numbers given other than the add phases not being too slow the most likely thing is as Ooshima and others said that one of or both the BLMs are having trouble not losing too much dps while dealing with mechanics in the last phase as the melee and brd shouldn't suffer anymore than in the previous phases unless they run out of TP but if that's happening the two of them should be able to fix that with paeon.

While it shouldn't be needed as the dps should know the fight just as well as anyone else but I suppose tunnel vision happens sometimes the tank holding Imdugud can help by reminding people of what's coming next so they can keep firestarter/thundercloud/aetherial manip/swiftcast ready for when they need to move (remember the ABC of magic Always Be Casting) if none of those are available then you always have sprint and scathe, if tanks get targeted by cyclonic chaos they can holmgang/hallowed it so the casters don't need to move, etc, small things like that to minimize the dps loss from dealing with mechanics

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Originally Posted by Kyomagi

thanks everyone. we have 1 ring left after last add. we had two once but positioning issue caused a wipe

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That would confirm my earlier conjecture that the main problem lies with your DPS's single target ability. Most likely is the 2 BLM losing cast and DPS while moving for the mechanics.

Are your healers squeezing in any damage? When my group first learned this fight additional scholar dps really helped. The first two phases have a lot of wiggle room for healers to help push things along, and the harder you go in those first two phases (and during phase transitions right after adds) the more time you'll have to deal w/ mechanics in the last phase.

having 2 BLMs might also be an issue. I've cleared it as both BRD and BLM, but I did notice that a BLM's DPS will dip when they're forced to stack for charge, get hit with the stun, or otherwise just have to run around.
Consider having someone run something other than BLM, but there are ways to compensate. Make sure you BLMs are emphasizing crit so they get thundercloud procs and are thus more able to hit while moving.

I want to see a parser too. But if I take a guess, people are too focused on doing the mechanics right in the last phase and they kinda forget about their DPS. If you want some hints, ask to your tanks to either change to Sword Oath/deactivate Defiance while OTing. The SCH can DPS too, if you have a SCH. Our first clear (and mostly all our clears) include a SCH DPSing, not because we need it, it's because it speeds up the run.

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Originally Posted by kyuven

having 2 BLMs might also be an issue. I've cleared it as both BRD and BLM, but I did notice that a BLM's DPS will dip when they're forced to stack for charge, get hit with the stun, or otherwise just have to run around.
Consider having someone run something other than BLM, but there are ways to compensate. Make sure you BLMs are emphasizing crit so they get thundercloud procs and are thus more able to hit while moving.

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That is actually player skill issue - there's a group in my FC that cleared the entire coil on progression on double BLMs.

Gear isn't even an issue for his team, I believe. OP is decked in I130 with a Zeta staff. Encounter DPS required is 2,150, minus off 200ea from each tank, without any healer DPS, it requires the 4 DPS to do a combined 1,750DPS which is about 437.5DPS per pax.

I did 517 on this week's run, runtime is 7m 10s, 2 Paeons and got charged 2 times. NIN-MNK-BRD-BLM composition. Pretty so-so numbers imo, but just giving an idea what could be reasonably possible at current gear level.

Which is very difficult to fail at with their gear. Would prob need to look at their parse or even a gameplay video to pin point the weak links and what went wrong.

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Originally Posted by kyuven

having 2 BLMs might also be an issue. I've cleared it as both BRD and BLM, but I did notice that a BLM's DPS will dip when they're forced to stack for charge, get hit with the stun, or otherwise just have to run around.
Consider having someone run something other than BLM, but there are ways to compensate. Make sure you BLMs are emphasizing crit so they get thundercloud procs and are thus more able to hit while moving.

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2 thing's:

1. Everyone's dps is hurt by having to stack for charge the least effected dps is BRD but everyone else is hit about as hard as a BLM.
2. Thundercloud is in no way effected by crit, it is a flat 5% chance, BRD dots have the crit reset bloodletter thing not BLMs.

As far as getting your BLM's to pump out more dmg(assuming that might be the cause) tell them to pick a spot to stand away from where you're doing mechanics(preferably close to though) and never leave that spot unless they absolutely have to. Everyone else should know that that's where the BLM's are and if they're standing away from others not on where you're doing stuff they should always be able to go all out on the boss with 0 worries unless they have to do something. BLM dps is pretty easy just don't move unless someone's going to die from it lol.

Another thing to do is have them pop sprint whenever they need to move cut's down on dps loss from moving and if you use it right after a fire1 cast you can see if you get a firestarter proc without wasting it.

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Originally Posted by Archulak

2. Thundercloud is in no way effected by crit, it is a flat 5% chance, BRD dots have the crit reset bloodletter thing not BLMs.

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Oy vey you're right...i coulda sworn Bards weren't the only ones affected by crits in that way...

Do you have your BRD and melee on tether priority? They should be the ones moving around to soak tethers, as they'll lose the least DPS from doing so.

Are you healers DPSing?

This is a pretty easy fix. Your Scholar should be using Selene instead of Eos. It adds an enormous amount of total raid wide damage. Whenever I use to hit enrage in PUG groups 99% of the time it was due to low Drg / Mnk DPS or the Scholar using Eos.

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Originally Posted by Kyomagi

first add 6 typically and second 8

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Judging by the amount of stacks Imdugud has during both Add phases, there doesn’t seem to be any wrong with the DPS output of the group during those phases. How many “Charge”-attacks do you get in phase 1 and 3?

The rotation for Phase 1 is basically:

• Crackle Hiss
• Spike Flail
• Critical Rip
• Crackle Hiss
• Wild Charge
• Crackle Hiss
• Prey
• Spike Flail
• Critical Rip
• Crackle Hiss
• Wild Charge
• Repeat

Based on the amount of DPS you generate during the 1st Add Phase, you should be reaching the 85% HP mark just before or after the 2nd Wild Charge in both the 1st and the 3rd Phase.

Our group had a lot of trouble dealing out the DPS required for the Turn, but once we got comfortable with the rotation in each phase, our DPS increased considerably. We moved around less than before, and were more confident when to pop our buffs. This might be the case for your group as well.

350 Dps per dps role isn't much of a strain. Since you're getting a solid amount of stacks during add phase, it has to be the last phase/the phases in-between that shrekt your runs. Do you have everyone alive? Do you use melee lb between the mechanics? Do you have a lot of melee out of position? Is your SCH putting up dots? Does your bard need to sing a lot?

There's a lot that may cause the issue, but I think you should definitely use a parser to see what's the cause for the lack of dps after adds.

350-450* depending on tank/sch damage output. Stupid phone.

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Originally Posted by Zaft

Got a parse? Would help to see where your raid DPS is.

inb4 "parses r illegalz"

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Still don't see em as accurate, run ACT get one result, run APP you get another. Seen a 50-60 DPS varience on MNK between them.

@ OP, DPS could be watching more for mechanics on last phase and being overly careful instead of pewpewing as much as they should be. A tip for some of em XD Blood 4 blood after they get hit by chain lightning. Then they know they won't be taking any more damage if charge turn.

To be honest, the DPS checks get tighter as you go further in FCoB. Turn 13 is a real check (fun fight tho).