3.0 and Raiding.

So little background, I've been doing progression raiding since 2.0 first came out.

With in 4 months I had cleared T5.

Again about 3-4 months after patch I cleared T9.

And I just got my clear on T13 last night. I am not an exceptional raider, but I am someone who values time and effort spent in towards defeating content and working with a group.

I'm from Exodus, which I consider a happy medium server. We have a dozen or more groups capable of clearing Turn 13 and while we're not going to be world first we have a decent pool of skill to pull from when Heavensward comes out.

So enough background, here's what I am worried about.

They're designing 'story mode' raiding for 3.0, and what I would classify as being harder then Savage for hard mode.

The flaw with this, is on my server we have maybe 2-5 groups which successfully cleared T6 Savage, and maybe 1-2 which cleared T8 Savage. No T7/T9 however.

I am concerned that this will break the Camel's back if the hard mode version is unbeatable by normal player standards, and while I respect that the pinnacle top world raiding groups with their unlimited assets for crafted gear and their ability level being significantly higher then our groups, I think that it may create a choke point for the rest of the players.

I rather like the difficulty we've enjoyed and I know that given enough time, gear, and dedication that my groups and the other groups on my server can clear content but I am concerned that the checks being introduced will become impossible and there will be no way even given 4-6 months that we will be capable for clearing all 4 turns of hard mode raiding.

I should also point out that the easier raid version will also represent being too easy and therefore not a good challenge so that players will become bored of the content.

The main point of this is merely to iterate that Square Enix will hopefully take consideration that some players, I think around 25% of the population are honestly here for raiding and the challenge but if it ends up being outside the limits of the player's abilities we may grow too frustrated to adapt to the new methods I guess time will tell.

Likely the best option is to modify the difficulty out of the gate around 3 months, something akin to the Turn 5 nerf of twister. Looking forward to the expansion regardless.

Thanks.

I think its a bit early to panic about that. SE has stated they consider heavenward basically a brand new game worth of content, and there definitely looking to see a big influx of new players. I imagine the "story" modes of alexander may be on par with what first coil was for us, and the hard modes to be a continuation in the difficulty curve weve become accustomed to. Basically I doubt it will be a walk in the park on one side and an iron man race on the other.

The chief problem, and I'll use the end of Turn 12 cutscene video as an example is some of the best designs of the game for action, plot, and well sheer awesomeness are locked behind a skill check.

It was my understanding that they wanted to make the new raid mode comparable to echo versions of Coil, to allow the 75% of casual player content to see the badass content they were missing in 2.X.

The hard mode of Alexander won't be harder than savage. It will be harder than current coil but easier than savage. That's what has been stated a few times by Yoshi.

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They're designing 'story mode' raiding for 3.0, and what I would classify as being harder then Savage for hard mode.

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Where do you get these crazy ideas about raid difficulty in 3.0 that clearly contradict previous statements by the producer?

It was my understanding that Alexander HM is harder than current coil but easier than savage. Hopefully this will alleviate some of the concerns you have about being able to clear it on your server.

Also, from what i gather from interviews etc, the Story mode of Alexander will drop gear that will help players progress into HM Alexander, maybe extending the shelf life of this raid (or you know, those progression guilds will just wander straight into HM and decimate it on release).

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Originally Posted by Karen_Cerfrumos

Where do you get these crazy ideas about raid difficulty in 3.0 that clearly contradict previous statements by the producer?

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There was a post on Reddit that stated that Hard Mode was going to be harder than Savage, and that it would drop superior gear than Normal Mode. This has since been confirmed as false, but a lot of people only saw it when it was thought to be legit.

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Originally Posted by Edgedy

They're designing 'story mode' raiding for 3.0, and what I would classify as being harder then Savage for hard mode.

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Alexander (normal) - difficulty between Coil (normal) and Coil (Echo)
Alexander (hard) - difficulty between Coil (normal) and Coil (Savage)

No mode is planned that is harder than Savage

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Originally Posted by Felis

Alexander (normal) - difficulty between Coil (normal) and Coil (Echo)
Alexander (hard) - difficulty between Coil (normal) and Coil (Savage)

No mode is planned that is harder than Savage

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You're ight about the (hard) but normal one was mentioned to be about the difficulty coil 2 is now with echo.

Remember when they said t11 will be hard to beat with 110 gear during vegas fanfest?

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Originally Posted by MidlaneGod

Remember when they said t11 will be hard to beat with 110 gear during vegas fanfest?

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And it was, because the devs hadn't taken into account the i110 crafted gear which was effectively i120+ in quality when fully melded. They admitted that they learned a lesson from that so I doubt it will be possible to skip gear progression using crafted gear in future.

I'd say it's fairly obvious that SE are adopting something akin to WoW's raiding philosophy. They want an easier version of the raid to ensure that everyone gets to experience the content whilst maintaining a harder version for those that want a challenge. As long as the easier mode still requires coordination and the hard mode isn't on savage difficulty I'm quite happy with the setup.

Yoshida said something interesting

Final coil is "easy" because a group of hardcore players get "world first" and all players over the internet see the strategy they used, making that a lot easier and still, some groups dind't completed it yet. (mine included)

Yoshi actually said the content is NOT easy just because it was beaten quickly. Its like saying that running a mile in less than 4 minutes is easy because Roger Bannister did it in 1954 (yes of course I googled that).

We had the world 4th on my server for 13, and then I think 2 groups nipped their heels like 1 or 2 weeks later. For a couple of weeks 2-3 more kills popped in, then it was dead quiet until the few weeks before 2.5 wherein 5 or 6 more groups got their 13 clear. It was fairly challenging, for reals. To the above poster's point, everyone who has a clear in week 11-15 (like my group) and is running their mouth about how easy it is... yeah dude, because you got to see videos of it and saw exactly what to do to win. Its still an accomplishment, getting 8 people to get their shit together to meet the checks and execute, but unless you devised a strategy from scratch yourself, you can't claim that the encounter was simple or not challenging in its entirety.

TO OP's point, I think that we will find the line is straddled a lot closer to the middle than this panic warrants. Story mode will probably have their insta-kill mechanics neutered, whereas x-mode or whatever they call it will have strict dps checks with challenging mechanics. If you are scurred, #getgud

I'm really interested how people knows they are the world 3rd, 4th, etc...Is there ant kind of leaderboard or something?

the difficulty of story mode, was said to be around T9 with the beginning echo (the 5 or 10%) which is still a challenge to most and if it took you 4 months after patch then this would be around the same level you may of faced with T9 so it should be entertaining, and IIRC, i beleave they said it was in-between T9 and Savage T6 to T9 for the hard mode, where it is a challenge to those who farm t9 savage, plus do not forget the thing isn't for another 14 weeks, and not only that but we don't know the mechanics of the bosses or anything of alexander :P so i wouldn't worry

I think T9 is harder than Final coil.

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Originally Posted by Ehayte

If you are scurred, #getgud

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You get a (-)1, xD

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Originally Posted by Inuk9

I'm really interested how people knows they are the world 3rd, 4th, etc...Is there ant kind of leaderboard or something?

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Same, I would like to know how this is determined and where the info comes from.

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Originally Posted by dughug

You get a (-)1, xD

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And a final coil weapon. Terms accepted.

Also, world __s are mostly based on heresay and timestamped screen shots, but SE typically mentioned the first 1-3 groups or so to clear coil content.

Savage's difficulty is vastly overstated. The reason so few groups have cleared it is because there's very little incentive to do so. This won't be the case with Alexander Hard Mode.

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Originally Posted by dughug

Same, I would like to know how this is determined and where the info comes from.

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Data servers do tracking individually, and Reddit does as well around time of progression.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...e-charm/page25

Here's the Exodus for example, we've been tracking since 2.0.

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Originally Posted by Alberel

And it was, because the devs hadn't taken into account the i110 crafted gear which was effectively i120+ in quality when fully melded. They admitted that they learned a lesson from that so I doubt it will be possible to skip gear progression using crafted gear in future.
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This information came from the same twitter post that claimed Alex HM is gonna be harder than Savage and can thereby be assumed to be false.

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Originally Posted by Edgedy

Data servers do tracking individually, and Reddit does as well around time of progression.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...e-charm/page25

Here's the Exodus for example, we've been tracking since 2.0.

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Have you ever considered the possibility of people who play the game and don't care about this thread at all? I bet were a lot of people who cleared stuff and don't post anywhere. World first is alright, because the chance of someone beats Final coil first and not telling is 0, but server 4th, server 3rd, etc..? That's not accurate with reality at all.

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Originally Posted by Edgedy

The flaw with this, is on my server we have maybe 2-5 groups which successfully cleared T6 Savage, and maybe 1-2 which cleared T8 Savage. No T7/T9 however.

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Currently there is no prize for this content outside of a title. In Alexander the hard tier will have new loot. That will be enough to get more people into the content. It wasn't a problem with the content. It was a problem with the reward incentives. Not all players care about titles.

You think you're an average raider if it takes you 4-5 months to clear raid content? Don't you think that means that content is toned too high then? That's an extremely long time to clear 4 bosses, seeing as we get content every 6 months.

I think this is a step in the right direction, slightly easier content for average raiders and harder content for more serious raiders, with loot that both groups will get rewarded with. This isn't taking anything from anyone, it's giving people content they can enjoy at a more decent rate. If anything we need 6+ bosses instead of 4 every major update.

Also a big reason why most serious groups didn't down savage content is because there's really no incentive to do it aside from maybe there's nothing else to do for months after clearing the same bosses over and over again. It's actually super easy with 2.4 loot too, my group downed T6 in under 10 attempts and T8 in just a couple days.

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Originally Posted by Inuk9

Have you ever considered the possibility of people who play the game and don't care about this thread at all? I bet were a lot of people who cleared stuff and don't post anywhere. World first is alright, because the chance of someone beats Final coil first and not telling is 0, but server 4th, server 3rd, etc..? That's not accurate with reality at all.

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I know that my group dgaf and we haven't posted on there, and the group was like one of the first few. I know quite a few other guilds who downed it weeks/months ago and aren't on there.