Bismarck

So I'm sure you recall that primal announced for Heavensward back at the Fanfests. Now, the thing is, that whale has been mentioned before, apparently as a creature of Sea Wolf mythology. They even named a restaurant after it.

So how does a creature from Roegadyn legends become a space whale summoned by a bird tribe?

...and why is it named for a Terran statesman from Germany, or a Terran warship bearing said statesman's name? :)

The beastibe (vanu vanu?) look like penguins to me.

It's possible they're like the ixal: were capable of flight, but resorted to the sea. Eventually, they god has always been able to fly/swim. Kinda like the pokemon Lugia. We know there are such things and flying fishes/jellies, so maybe Bismark's ability to float is just an advanced/powerful method?

Due to it's size I wouldn't be surprised is Bismark acted like a vessel (ship) to help it beastribe to roam the sea/skies

What if the sea wolves and the beast tribe are originally from the same area, or met each other breifly long ago? Both cases allow the Primal to be part of their mythos.

Because sea wolfs are half Highlanders and Vanu Vanu !
Or Roegadyn are Vanu Vanu that lost their feathers.

[/CrazyTheory]

Out of interest, where was Bismarck mentioned in Sea Wolf mythology?

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Originally Posted by Zohar_Lahar

So how does a creature from Roegadyn legends become a space whale summoned by a bird tribe?

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I imagine it is the other way; A space whale summoned by a bird tribe became part of Roegadyn legends. Similar scenario happened with Leviathan, if his Triple Triad card description is anything to go off. Alternatively there was a "living" Bismarck which became part of both Sea Wolf and Vanu legend, culminating in the Vanu Vanu creating a Primal out of it in 3.0.

He was a flying whale in FFXI. Was a hard fight upon release.

https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Bismarck

If he was a flying whale I think he would just as likely turn up in legends if he appeared in the skys above where the Sea Wolves dwelled. Perhaps his size inspired the naming of a famous large Sea Wolf vessel and that's how the Restaurant got the name.

That's just speculation I have no real idea.

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Originally Posted by SirTaint

He was a flying whale in FFXI. Was a hard fight upon release.

https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Bismarck

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He's actually far older than that - he first appeared as the water-elemental Esper in FFVI, in place of Leviathan.

As to where the name came from, I can only muse that back during FFVI's development and Nintendo's notorious anti-religious censorship (seeing as Leviathan is a Biblical creature), someone in Square's US offices must have thought to name a large, ocean-going creature after Germany's ultimate battleship (and by extension, the Prussian Chancellor), although you would have thought naming it 'Starbuck' after the whale from Moby Dick would have been more appropriate. ;)

Bismarck was one of the Espers trapped in Cid's lab in Final Fantasy VI. You obtain its Magicite and it teaches you basic elemental magic. When summoned, Bismarck treats you to some Sailor Mercury action: http://youtu.be/mEdk0bkSxzA

http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2...rck_Summon.png

I thought the whale in Moby-Dick was called... Moby Dick...

Urk,I think my memory just had a 90k error - you're right! I hadn't read Moby-Dick since high school so I got the character names mixed up. :p Thanks for the clarification. ^-^

Which probably also answers my own question about why Squaresoft didn't go with that name - no doubt the obvious double-entrende of the whale's name would have made Nintendo's censors come down on them hard, so I guess Ted Woosley must have just brainstormed nautical sounding names and settled on the German WWII battleship 'Bismarck' (and it's namesake, the 'Iron Chancellor'), despite it having zero connection to whales. But I'm just rambling here. :p

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Originally Posted by Nalien

Out of interest, where was Bismarck mentioned in Sea Wolf mythology?

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Originally Posted by Giant Squid

This rarely seen giant cephalopod makes an appearance in ancient Sea Wolf mythology as the creature on which the legendary whale Bismarck fed.

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Originally Posted by R'sushmo

There's a whale of a tale behind the name of this place. Well, it's the tale of a whale, actually. Bismarck devoured all that lay in his path, and the restaurant hopes its diners will follow suit.

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/10characters

...but they have their own story of a great ship hunted, facing overwhelming odds...

Yamato hasshin!

:)

The new footage of Bismarck in the 3.0 benchmark shows him leaping and diving through the clouds like a whale or dolphin would the sea. It's entirely possible that he was originally an aquatic creature and gained his flying abilities as a result of his summoning.

We still don't know much about the origins of the new beast tribes. We know the Ixal and Moogles believe they came from a floating continent in the skies (possibly THE floating continent we're confirmed to be visiting in Heavensward) so it may be that some of the new races up there actually came from the ground at some point. There are plenty of ways to explain a cultural crossover of some kind between the races. I'm sure this will be explained in Vanu lore.

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Originally Posted by Alberel

The new footage of Bismarck in the 3.0 benchmark shows him leaping and diving through the clouds like a whale or dolphin would the sea. It's entirely possible that he was originally an aquatic creature and gained his flying abilities as a result of his summoning.

We still don't know much about the origins of the new beast tribes. We know the Ixal and Moogles believe they came from a floating continent in the skies (possibly THE floating continent we're confirmed to be visiting in Heavensward) so it may be that some of the new races up there actually came from the ground at some point. There are plenty of ways to explain a cultural crossover of some kind between the races. I'm sure this will be explained in Vanu lore.

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I don't think the floating continent is the land of the ixals, it seems Allagan ( I wonder if it's going to be a dungeon or something, they said that the new CT type raid is going to be original so it can't be that ). Also there are a lot of sea fish so it's highly possible that Bismark always was a Flying Whale.

Bismarck is a very big primal. I'll be curious how we actually fight him considering how massive he is in the clip showed at PAX East. I wouldn't think it exactly like the Leviathan fight simply because he is far bigger than Leviathan.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

/10characters

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Well that's interesting... The Giant Squid makes it sound like Bismarck was aquatic...

R'sushmo's comment is particularly interesting having watched that sneak peak of the Benchmark, where Bismarck seems to eat the group of adventurers... Wonder if that's actually what we'll have... Belly of the Beast II...

I took one look at him and imagined it playing out like the Sin fight sequence in FFX. Our party on a mobile platform, taking out little pieces one at a time.

Could be we just land on the primal himself, like the Deathwing fight in WoW. Or we battle him on our flying mounts! Aerial fight!

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Originally Posted by Belhi

Bismarck is a very big primal. I'll be curious how we actually fight him considering how massive he is in the clip showed at PAX East. I wouldn't think it exactly like the Leviathan fight simply because he is far bigger than Leviathan.

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Well, from the angle of how the adventurers got "eaten" by Bismarck, maybe we kill him from inside, ala Pinocchio (already see the puns coming)? Maybe Cerberus was a first test in this.

Where is this 3.0 Benchmark people are talking about? I haven't seen a video for it yet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCHj_8Gs30w

This is the clip that showed Bismarck.

Seeing Bismark roaming freely like a wild animal certainly raises more questions on the true nature of primals.

...Of course, it could also mean nothing, as we saw Ifrit being fought in Central Thanalan in the original benchmark.

Leviathan also was roaming the sea when we baited him into attacking us and slew him. Ramuh could have easily roamed between when he was summoned and when we fought him, but he only wanted to protect the Sylphs

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Originally Posted by PArcher

Leviathan also was roaming the sea when we baited him into attacking us and slew him.

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Another good point. Leviathan was also seemingly roaming the seas in the 1.0 Limsa Lominsa opening scene, though never again seen after that.

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Originally Posted by treuhavik

Another good point. Leviathan was also seemingly roaming the seas in the 1.0 Limsa Lominsa opening scene, though never again seen after that.

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That was confirmed to be "a sea serpent," but all circumstances surrounding it remain unknown. Lominsan lore would have us believe that it was the legendary Thalaos, one of two great serpents chained to a wandering island called Swallowtail Roam so they wouldn't drown the world. Well, a mysterious island showed up, a giant serpent showed up... but the seas didn't rise, and the serpent hasn't been seen again...and you can never trust Lominsans using the word Thalaos, they call every big(ish) serptent(ish) thing Thalaos. I have my own theory on it, but little evidence.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

That was confirmed to be "a sea serpent,"

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Ah, but was it confirmed to not be Leviathan? Because, Leviathan is a sea serpent who would love nothing more than to drown the world and "those who confirm" can be rather sly about it.

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Originally Posted by treuhavik

Ah, but was it confirmed to not be Leviathan?

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Funny enough...

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Originally Posted by Fernehalews

No, that is not Leviathan.

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Looking closely it's not Leviathan, just a really big fish.

http://gamerescape.com/wp-content/up...t-1024x576.png

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

Funny enough...

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Thal's balls... He couldn't have been any more direct.


At any rate, I heard that the expansion would leave us questioning what we knew about the primals. I wonder what was meant by that...

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

Well, a mysterious island showed up, a giant serpent showed up... but the seas didn't rise, and the serpent hasn't been seen again...

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Which island & serpent was this?

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Originally Posted by treuhavik

Which island & serpent was this?

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Seal Rock aka Swallowtail Roam.

The island was from the 1.0 Lominsan introduction; we never actually saw it, but items taken from it were the focus of that story.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

Seal Rock aka Swallowtail Roam.

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Originally Posted by Lyngsath

There ain't a sprat for malms who couldn't tell ye that bedtime story: of the fearsome beastie what crushes ships in 'is mighty maw, 'n' swallows 'ole crews in a single gulp... 'Ang about... Story goes that the creature guards a mountain o' gold 'n' diamonds, and that whoever finds it...gets to rule the seas for all 'is days. Treasure...like the kind what's rumored to be 'idden up on that Seal Rock!

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It's safe to say Lyngsath was wrong, the story surely slipped me (like a balloonfish?). ...funny how we end up back at Bismark though, even if it ain't the primal.

Thanks for fillin' it in as always, Moose!

Anyone else remember Astro, the space whale from Disney's Pinnochio?

:)

The hardest part of fighting Bismarck is going to be deciding who gets to hit the Dragonator.

http://img.pandawhale.com/83411-I-un...ce-gi-6jlf.gif

Ah, Monster Hunter. The other thing that has been occupying my time. But in all seriousness, I really hope we get eaten. A whole fight in his stomach, or even if it's just the first phase or so, would be great.

I'd let everyone else die if it means that I can use the dragonator. Will we have Ballistas though?
Wasn't it mentioned that we'd have a fight on an airhsip? Someone already mentioned to fight parts of him like FFX sin so yea. I'm guessing that too.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

Lominsan lore would have us believe that it was the legendary Thalaos, one of two great serpents chained to a wandering island called Swallowtail Roam so they wouldn't drown the world.

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Rewatchin' all the 1.0 cutscenes, I found that Sisipu states it was but one serpent bound by Swallowtail Roam. What's with that?

http://i.imgur.com/GNd69pL.png

Doesn't this legend also contradict Erik's creation story?

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Originally Posted by Erik

There was the birth of Althyk, god of time among the Twelve, and in turn, His younger sister Nymeia, goddess of fate. And then there was water, and through it the Silvertear Falls came to be at the center of all that was. Here was the source not only of water, but the fount of all magic as well. Now, when water came into being, so too did the great dragon Midgardsormr. Brother Time and Sister Fate, fearing the Falls might fall into the hands of evil, ordered Midgardsormr their protector and warden. Much later, with the arrival of man, would Midgardsormr be worshipped as the guardian deity of Silvertear Falls.

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Originally Posted by treuhavik

Rewatchin' all the 1.0 cutscenes, I found that Sisipu states it was but one serpent bound by Swallowtail Roam. What's with that?

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I wondered that myself. I don't think Perykos is a recent addition to the story, because there was a cave in Cassiopeia Hollow with two giant serpent skeletons in it and that room was called Thalaos and Perykos. This continues in ARR with the sightseeing log.

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Originally Posted by Sightseeing Log: Thalaos

Though there is no proof to support the claim, rumor has these sun-bleached remains of a long-dead denizen of the deep are those of one of the legendary twin sea serpents believed to have been unleashed by the Navigator, Llymlaen at the dawn of eras to fill the empty seas (the other being Perykos).

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Why knows why Perykos keeps taking a back seat.

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Originally Posted by treuhavik

Doesn't this legend also contradict Erik's creation story?

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If taken literally. In 2.5, Minfilia considers that Midgardsormr's origin with Althyk and Nymeia may have just been with Hydaelyn, after all. If Althyk and Nymeia were both Hydaelyn, perhaps Llymlaen was also Hydaelyn, and then all the waters come from Hydaelyn, lol. I've figured for a while that the sea serpent had some connection to Midgardsormr; they have strikingly similar anatomy. Also, since ARR launched, there's been another interesting progression with serpent lore that I've kept my eye on in case it could explain this.

Prepare your mind for possible blowage.

The Little Thalaos is a catchable, serpentlike fish that looks a lot like the 1.0 serpent. The Nepto Dragon is thought to be a very large specimen of this fish, made large by the events surrounding a Calamity. In turn, the Nepto Dragon is a fishable version of the "Oceanus" serpents now seen throughout the game, including Keeper of the Lake (where it is known as Son of the Keeper), as well as the World of Darkness (where it is known as Jormungand, another version of the name Midgardsormr). The art book also muses on that these serpents all bear some resemblance to the Sahagin, wondering if perhaps they shared a common ancestor.

So, that opens up a few possibilities for the 1.0 serpent.

Was it just a giant "little thalaos" hinting at the coming Calamity? Or is he one of Midgardsormr's progeny? Can it commune with Sahagin? Is that why it seemed to be chasing down parts of the Key? Or was it linked to the Key on its own? These are the only questions I've not obtained answers to in the 1.0 Lominsan introduction - the serpent's origin/allegiance and the true nature of Seal Rock.

Anonymoose, do you have a publication of your collection of Eorzean Lore? (Maybe you're a mod for a wiki or something . . ?)

Your knowledge and quotes make me want to bundle it all and turn it into a physical tome of Eorzea / Hydaelyn / void / Beyond Eorzea,