More interesting trash mobs, longer runs in raids.

Mechanics Spoilers Below

So yesterday our static finally began working on T11 and holy crap was the trash mob section amazing. Splitting the raid up into two parts and having each group work together to shut down the barriers was pretty fun.

Can we get more interesting trash sections like that in normal dungeons, and make the dungeons more interesting and fun than "group up monsters, aoe down"? Also, for future raids, I personally would love actual large detailed raid dungeons that players can explore (akin to WoW's raids or FFXI's open world dungeons) rather than just harder trials with a small trash section before it. As players move from boss to boss, you can do more things akin to T11's trash.

Anyway, good job on mixing up things with T11. Can't wait to beat Kaliya, already can get to node phase pretty easily.

Mmmm loger raids with a stupid weekly lockout each other? No thanks, 13 min medium for raid with raid-wipe mechanics as now is already too long for ppl who play 3 hours of raid a couple of time @ week. Better to have no trash at all in raids.

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Originally Posted by Raffounz

Mmmm loger raids with a stupid weekly lockout each other? No thanks, 13 min medium for raid with raid-wipe mechanics as now is already too long for ppl who play 3 hours of raid a couple of time @ week. Better to have no trash at all in raids.

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Cuz it's all about efficiency, measured in loot per hour. Not in having fun playing.

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Originally Posted by AlexionSkylark

Cuz it's all about efficiency, measured in loot per hour. Not in having fun playing.

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Al about doing t10-13 as fast as possible and do nothing for rest of week yo. SO much fun :D

I agree with the need for more detailed raids, the way that coil currently is it doesn't give that epic feeling that more open and detailed raids do, doesn't even need to be longer, just be put together into one big dungeon instead of teleporting into different parts between each turn, hopefully they'll do this in the expansion for Alexander. As for more difficult thrash mobs, it will be fun in the beginning but after a while it will just be a tedious task unless the thrash mobs gives some kind of reward, needing a lot of focus for a zero gain will just bore people out after they cleared the thrash once and will result in trying to come up with things to avoid killing them like it's done in T10 and those mobs aren't even hard.

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Originally Posted by Raffounz

Mmmm loger raids with a stupid weekly lockout each other? No thanks, 13 min medium for raid with raid-wipe mechanics as now is already too long for ppl who play 3 hours of raid a couple of time @ week. Better to have no trash at all in raids.

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no trash mobs? What you just described is a trial fight nothing more. We need bigger more active raids that don't just have a few room clears then a boss fight. T1 shows what we dealt need but a more a bigger version of it.

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Originally Posted by Krindor

I agree with the need for more detailed raids, the way that coil currently is it doesn't give that epic feeling that more open and detailed raids do, doesn't even need to be longer, just be put together into one big dungeon instead of teleporting into different parts between each turn, hopefully they'll do this in the expansion for Alexander. As for more difficult thrash mobs, it will be fun in the beginning but after a while it will just be a tedious task unless the thrash mobs gives some kind of reward, needing a lot of focus for a zero gain will just bore people out after they cleared the thrash once and will result in trying to come up with things to avoid killing them like it's done in T10 and those mobs aren't even hard.

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on trash mob ideas maybe a craft item or something that could give some sort of boost like maybe go down this way before going to boss room to give a chance of making the fight less harder. Like maybe a 10-20% chance of giving you a buff for the boss fight.

Also needs more reaction less rotation.

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Originally Posted by Krindor

I agree with the need for more detailed raids, the way that coil currently is it doesn't give that epic feeling that more open and detailed raids do, doesn't even need to be longer, just be put together into one big dungeon instead of teleporting into different parts between each turn, hopefully they'll do this in the expansion for Alexander. As for more difficult thrash mobs, it will be fun in the beginning but after a while it will just be a tedious task unless the thrash mobs gives some kind of reward, needing a lot of focus for a zero gain will just bore people out after they cleared the thrash once and will result in trying to come up with things to avoid killing them like it's done in T10 and those mobs aren't even hard.

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Used to be trash drops in older games... WoW had epic loot drop from trash. You could also drop crafting items to create powerful gear like Dererk suggested. It was a random chance but it was something to look forward to.

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Originally Posted by AlexionSkylark

Cuz it's all about efficiency, measured in loot per hour. Not in having fun playing.

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Boss fights are fun, trash are called trash for a reason.

Alexander will in deed be a long raid I can imagine ....Hes a fortress primal bigger than Bahamut so get ready to run through corridors battling mobs so psyched

I'd just like there to be more than 4 bosses a raid tier.

And NOT HAVE ALL THE GOOD LOOT ON THE VERY LAST BOSS. You don't even have anything to use the loot on at that point.

The reason trash is not more "interesting" is because if, for example, WoD was double in length and had difficult trash pulls, is that it would become even MORE tedious after running the dungeon for the 50th time that week never seeing the one item you're trying to get. I'd rather they spend more time designing good boss fights than more tedious trash fights. Because time spent on trash is literally going to be time lost on bosses as far as design goes.

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Originally Posted by AlexionSkylark

Cuz it's all about efficiency, measured in loot per hour. Not in having fun playing.

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Sure. I just about guarantee I like doing content more than pretty much anything in this thread. I love doing all the extreme fights, regardless of whether or not I need anything from them. The trials are some of the most well done content in the game. For trash to be interesting in general, the battle system would need to be more interesting, which is something the dev team EXPLICITLY decided against, for the reason I suggested: it gets too tedious over time. I don't care about loot/hour. I care about having fun. Tedious trash is not fun. Not everyone wants to do nothing but level or feel like they are leveling.

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Originally Posted by Sessurea

Al about doing t10-13 as fast as possible and do nothing for rest of week yo. SO much fun :D

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I dislike the suggestion that only people who do Final Coil and nothing else would not appreciate more tedious trash mobs. I play all week doing pretty much anything/everything. Tedious trash is tedious. No thanks.

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Originally Posted by Hiruke

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In the case of WoD, you do it multiple times per week in order to get a specific drop is why trash can get tedious. Coil feels more like an overglorified trial at times, while ST and WoD both lack interesting trash mobs and can get tedious because of the type of weekly lock out it uses.

Imo, I just feel the exploration aspect of some of the coil areas feel really wasted. Though I feel like this is a reoccuring thing; a lot of trash mobs in this game are very straight forward and don't really stand out from each other...the exception being The Lost City of Amdapor's Gremlin.

Rather get to the 15 minute long fight to wipe about 10 minutes in asap to save time. You do these things to kill the boss not be stalled by junk that doesn't reward you. Once you do them once a week for a month it gets to be a chore and you quickly cease to enjoy fighting them.


It's all just an HP line with some letters above it that I'm attacking. Nothing more. Hell that's all I see when I fight things now that aren't a boss which are unique and deserve that special attention.