Chocobo Dash needs a nerf

It's come to a point where all other abilities are inferior to Dash. It helps you burst out of tricky situations (Briars/Shock/Silence), gets refreshed by Aether, useable when you're completely exhausted.

In fact, you're at a complete disadvantage without it. Was in a few matches just now where everyone had Dash. One person commented at the end of the match 'Wow everyone's strong.'

Really? Strength is measured by you having Dash and getting refreshed during the match? So what if you steal a Stamina Potion, so what if you reflect a Frenzy? So what if you lock down a competitor's items? Heavy/Frenzy resistance? Laughable.

Just hold down W, Dash, Head Start while you're at it. Get a single stamina potion/Aether and you'll essentially sprint from start to end.

This is just Dash I, giving you 1 sec of win. Imagine Dash III giving you 3 seconds of burst each time you use it. 3 seconds!

Basically yes. The perfect chocobo imo is Head Start + Choco Dash III. You get so far from the group the first 5 seconds you are practically unreachable the rest of the race and have absolute control over the coffers that keep popping. In one of my gen chocobos (I think it was 3), I had head start + choco dash I. Kept winning no matter what, it was rather silly, but fun.

Cure is superior to dash.

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Originally Posted by Gallus

absolute control over the coffers that keep popping.

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Actually, if you are too fast you will reach coffer locations before they have spawned, thus missing out on the item. In less worse case scenarios you wont be able to decide if you want it before reaching the location.

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Originally Posted by Aeyis

Cure is superior to dash.

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Sorry but Cure III's 9% stamina recovery is nothing compared to a 3sec dash.

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Originally Posted by Aphel

Sorry but Cure III's 9% stamina recovery is nothing compared to a 3sec dash.

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That's what I thought, untill I compared the tireless buff to the sprint buff, or even the stamina pot. Untill you get to the point where you can sprint from start to finish without going out of stamina, stamina restores tend to be superior.
What if you get hit by a meteor? Or a heavy after your sprint. While theres certainly some items better then others, I personally don't find any too broken.

There's multiple way/builds to win a match after all.

Agree with multiple builds, at least for now.

My current chocobo has heavily built towards speed. I actually use sprint shoes as a means to rest, not so much to speed up. It also burns through stamina like crazy when going at max speed. My biggest issue with it is stamina. I have to budget it very carefully, and if I get hit with anything that reduces my stamina, or a bacchus' water, I'm done.

Stamina tablet is currently one of my favorite items. I like sprint shoes, which are the same thing as choco dash III, but they're not as useful to me as stamina.

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Originally Posted by Aeyis

There's multiple way/builds to win a match after all.

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That's what I thought as well. At first I refused to believe that Dash is the IWIN ability. Pedigree after pedigree, trust me I've gone through Steal III/Cure III/Shock III/Dash I on my Chocobos and went through so many races. There is only so much you can do when your opponent is 4-5 seconds ahead of the pack while the rest have to deal with in-cluster fighting + Briars. A few of these guys I've met don't even bother about picking up powerups.

In a short courses like Sagolii, these guys just plain ignore powerups and laugh all the way to the finishing line while you have to crack your brains remembering who has Briar, who to steal, who to reflect from, etc. Even in Costa where the initial 1/3 of the racecourse is a bottleneck, getting ahead of the cluster means you don't have to deal with all those nonsense that the jockeys throw at each other.

Yes there's so many ways to win a match. It just so happens that the one with Dash + Headstart wins it the easiest.

I'm inclined to agree,dash is absolutely superior to any other choco ability.I have used it also,and the single chocobo i had it on never lost a single race due to aethers refreshing it.

I can only see two "fixes" either make it non-refreshable,or remove it completely.

I admit it can be sort of broken when used in combined with aethers and head start, but dashing is currently the most viable counter to briar and briar is pretty broken as well. You basically cannot get away from it in time even if you know it is coming, a lot of the races have cramped paths as well, and if you get hit even once you usually are screwed, get hit for full duration or multiple briars and you are basically out of the race entirely and might as well just afk till you pass finish line cause you ain't gonna make it. Sooooo many briars appear in the item chests too most of the time, its like one of the higher % items it seems.

Unfortunately they made the races similar to mario kart stuff lol where certain items/abilities are way better than others. If you get like Heavy Resistance 10%, or Choco Reflect rolled for your ability it is like having one banana peel item to use during the race and it isn't even gonna hit anyone but the silly computer AI lol.

screw it, literally add a blue shell that outright stuns the top racer and an aoe around them. make it pop like choco meteor where it becomes very common if the race is too disparate

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Originally Posted by Krr

screw it, literally add a blue shell that outright stuns the top racer and an aoe around them. make it pop like choco meteor where it becomes very common if the race is too disparate

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lol reminded me of this

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...53/621/81b.png

damn blue shells xD

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Originally Posted by Aphel

A few of these guys I've met don't even bother about picking up powerups.

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It's not that they ignore power ups but they decide not to take it, what will you do with a Briar when you're ahead if it means you're giving your oponent an actual useful buff?
I always try to get a powerup if it's actually useful and curse when the powerups start to pop behind me because I'm too far ahead, ending up to be out of breath and the guy behind me breezes with 20% remaining to the first place because he got all the stamina powerups. D:

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Originally Posted by Aeyis

Cure is superior to dash.

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Ha.

Not even in your wildest dreams.

Choco dash alone acts like a choco cure in case you haven't noticed, your stamina stops draining for a good 3-4 seconds while you are dashing, so not only you save stamina + potentially get away from briars, silences and distractions but also move instantly a good 10-15 metres. I'm inclined to think that choco dash III saves you even more stamina than a choco cure III, for 2 reasons basically:

1 - You are moving very fast during 3 seconds (which saves you all the potential stamina you would've drained if you were sprinting just normally)
2 - Your stamina literally stops draining for a good 3 seconds after choco dash III.

Also, if you start getting chocobo aethers with a chocobo cure and you get overflow of stamina, that's next to useless. Overflow of Choco Dashes III? gg wp.

So really, no.

Overflow of stamina? You mean you don't just hit accelerate for the first half the match? Overflow would require hitting 2 Aethers and being unable to use one Chocobo cure. Ofcourse you can just hold onto it long enough to use it.Sprint doesnt draining stamina for a good 3 seconds after Dash III. For exactly 3 seconds, as that is how long the sprint lasts.

I dunno, I'll reserve judgement untill I've tried a lot more builds so I won't say your wrong. But I find Dash being that broken a bit of a hasty assumption, in my opinion.

Choco Dash is definately a powerful ability, but it's not an automatic win. >_> I've beaten lots of people with Choco Dash, and all I use is Choco Heal (restores Stamina one..). Yes, the situations mentioned are definately where Choco Dash is superior to MOST abilities... But some abilities are also pretty much useless. LOL!

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Originally Posted by nijian

Choco Dash is definately a powerful ability, but it's not an automatic win. >_> I've beaten lots of people with Choco Dash, and all I use is Choco Heal (restores Stamina one..). Yes, the situations mentioned are definately where Choco Dash is superior to MOST abilities... But some abilities are also pretty much useless. LOL!

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Nothing is an automatic win. The 2 most determinant things are hero's tonic and choco meteor. Problem is, as you well said, there is a ridiculous amount of skills and traits that are literally useless. Heavy Resistance, Heavy Cleanse, Frenzy Resistance, Frenzy Cleanse, Choco Reflect, Choco Steal, Choco Esuna, Choco Silence, Choco Shock, Speedy Recovery and Dressage are next to useless. Maybe Choco Steal, Choco Shock and Choco Silence aren't completely trash tier, but they are just too situational.

Currently god tier? Choco Dash III and Head Start.
Decent tier? Increased Stamina III and Choco Cure III.

That's just how I see it.

Yup. Not all the skills are very balanced... that's clear as day. Just saying, that Choco Dash of any level is "really good", but not the be-all-end-all... People make it sound worse than it really is.

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Originally Posted by Gallus

Nothing is an automatic win. The 2 most determinant things are hero's tonic and choco meteor. Problem is, as you well said, there is a ridiculous amount of skills and traits that are literally useless. Heavy Resistance, Heavy Cleanse, Frenzy Resistance, Frenzy Cleanse, Choco Reflect, Choco Steal, Choco Esuna, Choco Silence, Choco Shock, Speedy Recovery and Dressage are next to useless. Maybe Choco Steal, Choco Shock and Choco Silence aren't completely trash tier, but they are just too situational.


Currently god tier? Choco Dash III and Head Start.
Decent tier? Increased Stamina III and Choco Cure III.

That's just how I see it.

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Hey i like dressage,what's not to like about 15% less racing time to get to the breeding stage of your chocobo?(helps that i only ever seem to come up against npcs these days)

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Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

Agree with multiple builds, at least for now.

My current chocobo has heavily built towards speed. I actually use sprint shoes as a means to rest, not so much to speed up. It also burns through stamina like crazy when going at max speed. My biggest issue with it is stamina. I have to budget it very carefully, and if I get hit with anything that reduces my stamina, or a bacchus' water, I'm done.

Stamina tablet is currently one of my favorite items. I like sprint shoes, which are the same thing as choco dash III, but they're not as useful to me as stamina.

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if you use sprint shoes while lathered, you stay lathered until done sprinting. same thing for the blue sprint pads.

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Originally Posted by BLaCKnBLu3B3RRY

if you use sprint shoes while lathered, you stay lathered until done sprinting. same thing for the blue sprint pads.

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It's a quick method to accelerate.

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Originally Posted by Honourlessichi

Hey i like dressage,what's not to like about 15% less racing time to get to the breeding stage of your chocobo?(helps that i only ever seem to come up against npcs these days)

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It's not 15% less racing time, do not fool yourself xD. You remove dressage and give the chocobo an actual good skill and instead of repeteadly losing matches because you are racing skilless you will place 1st and 2nd most times if you are smart and have a skill that actually does something unlike dressage. This comes from someone who had one of his Gen chocobos (can't remember which one) learn dressage II. The grind was significantly harder because there wasn't a freaking single way to win a race.

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Originally Posted by Aeyis

Overflow of stamina? You mean you don't just hit accelerate for the first half the match?

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Anything over 0% stamina at the end of a race is wasted stamina. With cure III and multiple aethers, you can sprint non stop start to finish and have some to spare. This significantly reduces the effectiveness of cure over dash. Combined with the above statement on how dash also conserves stamina, dash will almost always beat cure in terms of usefulness.

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Originally Posted by 314159265358979323846264338327

Anything over 0% stamina at the end of a race is wasted stamina. With cure III and multiple aethers, you can sprint non stop start to finish and have some to spare. This significantly reduces the effectiveness of cure over dash. Combined with the above statement on how dash also conserves stamina, dash will almost always beat cure in terms of usefulness.

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You assume that you get multiple Aethers in a single run. At any rate, there are more broken abilities then Dash.

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Originally Posted by Aeyis

You assume that you get multiple Aethers in a single run. At any rate, there are more broken abilities then Dash.

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Name one that isn't head start.

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Originally Posted by Gallus

It's not 15% less racing time, do not fool yourself xD. You remove dressage and give the chocobo an actual good skill and instead of repeteadly losing matches because you are racing skilless you will place 1st and 2nd most times if you are smart and have a skill that actually does something unlike dressage. This comes from someone who had one of his Gen chocobos (can't remember which one) learn dressage II. The grind was significantly harder because there wasn't a freaking single way to win a race.

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Well you're obviously not as expert as you seem to think you are,i can safely say i've lost less than 30 races while using dressage in the last 4 ranks of my 5 chocobos i've bred.

Winning races is easy once you get ahead at the start,thanks to dash i've gotten in 2 of those ranks,the other 2 ranks i was without dash weren't much more of a problem at all due to my good chocobos.Don't even need headstart.Other players are never a problem because i never get other players thanks to the popularity of triple triad :)

You can say i'm lying,i don't care,i know what i've done and i know what racing is like and i laugh at your claim that winning races was impossible with dressage.

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Originally Posted by Gallus

Name one that isn't head start.

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Pray tell what you would do if you got silenced+ could not use items, for the first 2-3 item drops. Either one of those would be rather.. unfortunate for your chances of winning.

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Originally Posted by Aeyis

Pray tell what you would do if you got silenced+ could not use items, for the first 2-3 item drops. Either one of those would be rather.. unfortunate for your chances of winning.

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That actually wouldn't work because with headstart and dash you can gtfo anything that can harm you at the start.

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Originally Posted by Honourlessichi

You can say i'm lying,i don't care,i know what i've done and i know what racing is like and i laugh at your claim that winning races was impossible with dressage.

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Winning with dressage isn't impossible, of course, but you are playing with one skill less. Due to how dumb NPCs can turn out to be, yes, you can still pull wins against them, but against any kind of competent player and decent chocobo stats with 2 skills instead of 1, your odds of winning are not very favourable. Couple that with a chocobo with 1 and 2 stars in stamina and maximum speed and yes, things can get rough, even against NPCs.

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Originally Posted by Aeyis

Pray tell what you would do if you got silenced+ could not use items, for the first 2-3 item drops. Either one of those would be rather.. unfortunate for your chances of winning.

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Firstly, you are not likely to get silenced or distracted with head start + choco dash III... and secondly, what's better in your book, getting away from your other 7 competitors, or silencing/distracting 2/3 of them?

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Originally Posted by Gallus

Firstly, you are not likely to get silenced or distracted with head start + choco dash III... and secondly, what's better in your book, getting away from your other 7 competitors, or silencing/distracting 2/3 of them?

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7? All that matters in one game is 1 or 2 specific competitors. You only need to win against the strongest of your competitors.
But as it said, I find rather premature to claim that one ability is broken, while ignoring other powerful abilities.

Especially when its being said that steal is ''useless'', and when seemingly everyone ignores (or doesnt know?) about different racing courses favoring different abilities/stats builds.

Incidentally, while on that topic. Foul weather preference does not ignore bad weather. I seemed to be missing foul/good weather comparisons, rather then comparisons of a single type, when it was commented that ''foul weather preference is far better then good weather''
My guess (aye, a guess; like everyone else's) is that it simply increases stats during said weather, but you still get the penality(s) of bad weather.

As I said, a lot of premature conclusions, in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by Gallus

Winning with dressage isn't impossible, of course, but you are playing with one skill less. Due to how dumb NPCs can turn out to be, yes, you can still pull wins against them, but against any kind of competent player and decent chocobo stats with 2 skills instead of 1, your odds of winning are not very favourable. Couple that with a chocobo with 1 and 2 stars in stamina and maximum speed and yes, things can get rough, even against NPCs.

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Winning against ncs is all but guaranteed for me,i honestly can't figure out why it is such a problem for others.

Against players,i usually win too,because i know the courses like the back of my hand and will be first/second at the first/second treasure chest so i can get in control of those.
I come up against players (usually 1,sometimes 2) every 10 races or so,and surely not every single one of those i'm beating is incompetent.
So no,you do not need to be a dash/headstarter to win the vast majority of your races.

Is the combo broken?I'd say so,but you'd need to be going up against that combo for 10%+ of your races to render dressage3 a wasted slot.Infact my math's poor on that,it may be a lot more because you're still getting 15% in any place finished,and it may very well be even with the same combo you would have still lost.

Even with 2 good skills, food feeding and smart playing trust me it's not a guaranteed win against higher tier NPCs. By the looks of it, you haven't reached R240-260 where I've seen NPCs consistently finish sagolii under 88-85 seconds. You are bound to have some real fun dealing with those with skills such as choco reflect, frenzy resist or dressage.

R60-R80-R100? Yes, I've been there too, can't even remember which was my longest win strike, but probably around 20-25 wins without losing once. Hell, my last G9 chocobo with just head start didn't lose a single race until level 10, at that point I was already dealing with R120...and the problems start from R140 onwards, where NPCs seem to start outscaling your stats by a wide margin and your only chance is playing far smarter than them and have some luck. Even with 380 Max speed, NPCs from R220-240 make fun of you.

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Originally Posted by Gallus

Even with 2 good skills, food feeding and smart playing trust me it's not a guaranteed win against higher tier NPCs. By the looks of it, you haven't reached R240-260 where I've seen NPCs consistently finish sagolii under 88-85 seconds. You are bound to have some real fun dealing with those with skills such as choco reflect, frenzy resist or dressage.

R60-R80-R100? Yes, I've been there too, can't even remember which was my longest win strike, but probably around 20-25 wins without losing once. Hell, my last G9 chocobo with just head start didn't lose a single race until level 10, at that point I was already dealing with R120...and the problems start from R140 onwards, where NPCs seem to start outscaling your stats by a wide margin and your only chance is playing far smarter than them and have some luck. Even with 380 Max speed, NPCs from R220-240 make fun of you.

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I've slowed down my racing since last week (as I was trying to obtain cards), so I'm not sure on this, but are there any of the lower brackets available at the time to compete in when you're that high of a rating? The NPCs really seem to just get random stats, usually average or near max what that racing bracket would ideally have that's why. So I would think that you're still intended to go for the lower available ones until the stats are up to par (or you're forced to move up).

You can only get to the highest 2 tier brackets, you are forced to move up, unless I'm missing something.

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Originally Posted by Gallus

Even with 2 good skills, food feeding and smart playing trust me it's not a guaranteed win against higher tier NPCs. By the looks of it, you haven't reached R240-260 where I've seen NPCs consistently finish sagolii under 88-85 seconds. You are bound to have some real fun dealing with those with skills such as choco reflect, frenzy resist or dressage.

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I use dressage to get my chocobos into breedable state as fast as possible for the time i have to play,and yes,i've been in 140.

Dressage for that,is an incredibly useful ability.

I'll start worrying about headstart with dash once i'm done with the lower rank breeds.

It’s a bit too early to provide specific details, but I wanted to inform everyone that the dev. team is planning to make adjustments to abilities and items for chocobo racing.

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Originally Posted by Grekumah

It’s a bit too early to provide specific details, but I wanted to inform everyone that the dev. team is planning to make adjustments to abilities and items for chocobo racing.

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Can we please have the last tier of chocobo skills added in the vendor? We should either have that or at least the ability to reset our chocobos to level 1...

what are we supposed to do when we get our "ultimate P9 chocobo" only to waste 40 lethe waters and get 40 subpar skills and end up having to buy a tier II skill from the vendor without the possibility to revert that back? Honestly that's extremely unfair. Breeding 2 P9 chocobos 15 times to get that "ultimate chocobo" is frustrating enough.