Here's why:
http://i1156.photobucket.com/albums/...pszkck1jhb.png
The PLD in the screenshot did about 5k more then the average DPS there, yet he gets 10 kills? That basically means he ran around and stole kills, because there's no way a PLD can blow up that many people by spamming RoH, especially in a 8v8v8.
Because it can take so long to kill someone, especially a skilled healer, kills being based only on getting the final hit drains all the value out of the scoreboard. I always take killcounts with a grain of salt, and you should too.
Kill scores don't truly represent your performance
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03-05-2015, 05:09 AMKassiekaneKill scores don't truly represent your performance
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03-05-2015, 07:51 AMCeveArthu
KS = Kill secured
Paladins kick out a pretty scary amount of damage, he could very well just be pounding on new players vOv -
03-05-2015, 03:02 PMkpxmanifesto
So he ran around getting the last hit on people. I don't really mind. I'd rather have the paladin steal the kill than have OPFOR get away.
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03-06-2015, 12:38 AMKassiekaneKill secured? Really?Quote:
Originally Posted by CeveArthu
So if a nin comes and attacks a flag that I'm defending, and we are fighting 1v1, and he gets to like 5% HP where I can finish him with a full thrust, and here comes super PLD with his flying shield and lands the final blow before my full thrust animation finishes, do you seriously think he deserves that kill? Because that's exactly what happened during that match. -
03-06-2015, 01:31 AMSessurea
U can just go around on bard last-shoting ppl who are engaged with others and it proves nothing.
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03-06-2015, 04:19 AMBabette
I don't see the point here.
Ratio K/D is meaningless in FF 14, untill you can see it in your profile.
Imagine now that you and your opponent have less than 5% life, next skill = death, for you or for the opponent.
Goal is to win, i would prefer than an ally comes and steal the kill, than being killed because unfornately my opponent hitted me 1st. -
03-06-2015, 04:28 AMHyristQuote:
Originally Posted by Kassiekane
Sounds like sour grapes to me.
And yes. Cause your "Last Hit" could have been stunned and the ninja run away, or Perfected Dodged and you get assassinated. Does it really matter who 'gets the kill' when you're on the same team anyways?
KS = Kill Secured. Period, end of story. It only gets stolen when your kill is taken by an opposing team. These people are your teammates, not the opponents. Stow the Ego, ask the PLD to sit on the Flag, as you're damaged, and go join the front with your healer and do something better with your gap closers than just sit on your heels and complain that someone 'stole your kill'.
For the record, I rarely, if ever, pay attention to Kill Scores for performances. Reason being, as a Paladin my duties vary from securing kills to protecting allies. It's just that variable on the circumstance. Honestly it's a matter of how many kills the team gets collectively. So yeah, if I'm capable of finishing someone, I'm going to.
In slaughter, if I've got Battle High, I make sure it turns around into more shields for the team. But too often I see DPS peal off because they don't want to over-extend, and then it becomes my job to complete the execute, because I'm most likely to survive the retaliation.
In secure, it's more about dissuading more assaults on the point, or being sure that roamer absolutely, positively eats the dirt.
Team > Individual, Always. -
03-06-2015, 05:29 AMDoritos1821
Damage dealt and heals also don't determine a player's performance all the time too. Some jobs have an easier time getting the kill, damage, and heal stat than others. I understand your frustration though, as a melee DPS, I get obsessed trying to get highest kills. However, if kills were determined on the person who did the most damage to a target and you were facing a team that had really good healers, then SMN and BLM would have all the kills. In my opinion, person who gets the last kill shot is the most fair and its actually something us melee DPS can take advantage in a 72 man slaughter. That PLD knows what he is doing by steal killing. Also in a series of games, you have the better chance of getting more damage and kills in any PvP mode. You know the rules of the game and strength of weaknesses of every class. Use that knowledge to your advantage.
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03-06-2015, 06:36 AMazlewood
no such thing as kill stealing lololol there are only so many targets! people are going to attack the same target, what are they suppose to do what for you get get killed then attack lolololololQQlololol
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03-06-2015, 07:33 AMSoular
Really don't see the issue here, as long as its dead then it is beneficial to your team.
Shouldn't matter who gets the kill as long as you work together; performance should be measured by your ability to work together/focus a target to achieve the goal at hand, rather than your ability to get the finishing blow on enemies. -
03-06-2015, 07:36 AMzeopower6
Some people want to get to Slaughterhouse or Hand of Mercy asap, lol.
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03-06-2015, 07:39 AMMyrhn
That pld even did more dmg that most dps what make you think we didnt kill some of those?
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03-06-2015, 11:16 AMKassiekaneOh no you're getting wrong, I definitely PTFO every match. I was nailing the drones every spawn, and pretty much carried the node for my team, thus the damage. The reason why I killed a nin at the flag is because the paladin wantedto go mid. So I waited behind a wall and baited the nin. I was burning him badly, he had no chance by the time the pld came back and 'helped' me. And you know what? I still had enough time to run back to mid, carry the node, and win the match for my team. So if you think this is me trying to stoke my 'ego', you're wrong. This thread was made as a late response to a thread I once seen in General Discussion, where people were so impressed that a ninja got 14 kills in a match.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyrist
What I'm trying to say, is that kill scores has no value whatsoever. I don't personally care that people can steal kills, but it's bothersome that people think you are bad if you don't have a high kill count, which is bullsh*t. -
03-07-2015, 12:26 AMLStarbreeze
Kudos to that SCH for outhealing 2 WHM, and still doing almost as most dmg as some dps.
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03-07-2015, 03:15 PMEibon
Pretty sad when there is an achievement based off of killing blows rather than engaged enemy kills. It's even more frustrating that healers get ZERO credit towards this achievement and they're literally a necessity to PvP. How has this not been addressed? Oh...... right..... super busy with mini games that are even worse than pvp to keep people busy with endless grinds. lol.
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03-07-2015, 04:05 PMCeveArthuhttp://i.imgur.com/PVKGiwE.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by Eibon
Scholars are a dps class with extra healing skills, white mages have a 30s cooldown instant kill, its not overly difficult to get kills, just dont expect to have the highest -
03-07-2015, 11:13 PMDomiraIt doesn't matter, the achievements based on killing blows are biased against tanks and healers. Its like creating achievements based upon the amount of heals you've done and saying a class like monk can eventually grind it out with second wind. It can happen, but at a snails pace.Quote:
Originally Posted by CeveArthu
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03-07-2015, 11:46 PMCeveArthuOh sure, i agree that its biased but its not downright impossible to get kills, its fairly easy honestly (although tanks kick out crazy damage if you build them for it, its not much use having vit stacked on a tank for slaughter anywayQuote:
Originally Posted by Domira
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03-08-2015, 12:17 AMDomiraNot impossible, just improbable. But that only applies to slaughter mode.Quote:
Originally Posted by CeveArthu
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03-08-2015, 02:20 AMBuff_ArcherThat would actually be really really really funny if there was some achievement based on HP restored via Second Wind. Like "Broken Wind- 1,000,000 HP restored via Second Wind ability." They could put that one right under the Honesy Gillionairre achievement in the list.Quote:
Originally Posted by Domira
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03-08-2015, 02:53 AMGuesswhat
I find it in most Slaughters I'm in, ranged DPS do usually most damage and get the most kills. Especially when slaughter was 1st introduced. With time it have evened out a bit.
It's probably very hard to implement a system that yield a 100% fair results based on performance. There simply is too many variables to consider. -
03-08-2015, 05:44 AMBuff_Archer
Could this be one reason why some of the Secure mode games I've played have been so awful, I'd been saying people were treating it like it was their own place to farm kill counts Slaughter-mode style with half the team going off-objective costing us wins. The last few games I ran as SCH (and so was very aware of who was in range of heals vs not) 2-3 melee/tank players would go off on their own to get a kill or two and die while the ranged and heals half of the team were up in mid, with maybe 1 melee DPS, trying to get drones but outnumbered 2-1 by each of the other two parties.
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03-09-2015, 11:01 AMMaxwellConsidering the mechanics in play, i doubt there can ever a numerical value accurately tied to you performance.Quote:
Kill scores don't truly represent your performance
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03-09-2015, 01:23 PMXenosan
Getting assist helps fill your LB bar. So at least there's that.
In slaughter 72player everyone only tries to steal kills so I don't think we can call foul play on a player for doing what essentially everyone else is also doing (they just happen to have had the most success at it in that match).
And yea it seems people have forgotten how to 72player securing. Is sad T_T -
03-11-2015, 06:45 AMkisada
yep. ks = kill secured.
have i gotten kills i probably shouldn't have gotten? yes.
have my teammates gotten my kills i should have gotten? yes.
just be happy that it was your team that got the kill and not an opposing one. don't forget that it's all about winning, first. if you think otherwise then you're only sporting a mentality that ends up hurting your team overall. -
03-11-2015, 09:50 AMBuff_ArcherAgreed- since SMN has been my main DPS class since Frontlines first came out, I had to get used to doing a lot of damage in relation to number of kills on the scoreboard, but I've been fine with that and saw it as team synergy at its best (I get crowd HP down fast by ninja-baneing 3 DOT's onto three people at once, and bard/melee classes can use the abilities that proc at low enemy HP to finish them off. Back when we had 72 man Secure Mode, scoreboard would often be likeQuote:
Originally Posted by kisada
SMN (me) 2 / 0 245960
BRD 14 / 1 55000
Of course Slaughter mode makes the final killshot important, and for various reasons including 90k disconnects requiring me to resummon, I swap to BLM and respec my AP's when Slaughter mode pops.
What hinders me more than anything with kill count in Slaughter mode is being a controller player. I might see half a dozen people with low health I'd like to target fast before it gets refilled, but in a crowd of 30+ good luck tab-targeting in time. I think I'm going to have to learn how to target with the touchpad mouse on my USB keyboard. -
03-11-2015, 10:33 PMRed_WolfAdding to that... In my experience players that routinely top the killing blow list are the ones that hurt the team the most. They spend the match swapping targets for kill steals instead of: pressuring healers, focusing on objectives, using crowd control, and protecting their teammates.Quote:
Originally Posted by kisada
It is a nice secondary goal but very few unselfish players can top the killing blow list routinely. -
03-12-2015, 04:37 AMkisada
that's not my experience and that runs counter to the fact that players who are running high streaks build the fastest lb's and as a result are able to pressure teams the most by far because their roles change.
it's all about impact. i'm sure there are players who are completely focused on kills without regard for anything else, but even if they're not doing all the little things that help winning, the way this mode is designed, you'll have an impact no matter what and an even greater one if you're getting lots of kills. -
03-12-2015, 05:43 AMRed_WolfYou have a point with kills leading to faster LBs resulting in more kills. But that's something specific to just one mode in one game. Ordinarily getting a kill just gives you a tally mark in a column and maybe some extra honor, favor, etc… (pvp currency).Quote:
Originally Posted by kisada
I disagree though. This is your typical scenario for when I say focusing healers is more important:
Say you have 4 DPS on a team. 3 of them are attacking the healer and forcing the healer to heal themselves mostly. The other 1 is killing a few weak links and taking advantage of the lack of heals provided on the other team. Those 3 DPS come close to killing the healer but fail. The team wipes instead. Now you have one DPS with a few kills and 3 DPS with none at this point in the game. The one DPS with kills starts running his or her mouth about how they are the only one doing anything. BUT, if he or she had switched to the healer then they would have killed the healer and started a wipe of the other team. -
03-12-2015, 06:02 AMMaxwellTriple monitor setup ? Looks sexy :PQuote:
Originally Posted by CeveArthu
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03-12-2015, 05:53 PMCeveArthuIt is until you realise you have peripheral vision every 5 mins and get freaked out >_>Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxwell
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04-08-2015, 07:56 AMAdrian74
Bump.
I think that the kill count should be given to the one that inflicted more damage to that target, rather than the finish blow.... oh, wait, I think I'm going to recommend this now in 'that section where they read us more than here' -
04-08-2015, 10:20 AMLorielleThis kinda is a double edged sword. For example, SMN wouldn't benefit from this at all. MNK is also liable to suffer from this since the two are ramp up DPS. Things like BLM and DRG could easily claim most kills because of their burst damage. This can also promote unnecessary stalking and tunnel vision(latter happens anyway, but more so than before).Quote:
Originally Posted by Adrian74