I love to PvP. When frontlines and wolves den first came out, I was all over that. Now it has been months since my last match. The queue times for these things are ridiculous. I was wondering, why don't they change it from the GC vs GC vs GC. I think that is what really is slowing it down. I know there are no factions in this game like WoW, but I'd love to get my fill of PvP back in, but I can't spend 40+ mins in queue to have a 3-15 min battle. What can we do to fix this?
Oh and side note, I agree with the other post about Triple Triad win trading. Thats just lame.
Love you SE!
i love PvP....
Printable View
-
03-05-2015, 02:00 AMBlank0022i love PvP....
-
03-05-2015, 04:26 AMRed_Wolf
I have this and a few other suggestions in the PvP forum.
-
03-05-2015, 04:28 AMLaeore
Totally agree. This is why I don't PvP anymore.
-
03-05-2015, 04:37 AMmyahele
I like Frontlines secure, but now all the all match that I get is 8v8v8 and Slaughter is not very fun at all. Just a boring spam fest with not much strategy involved
-
03-05-2015, 04:41 AMStupiduglytaru
theres strategy in slaughter btw
a full team of blms can be beaten ^^ -
03-05-2015, 04:55 AMmyaheleTrue, but in the end its just a caster spam for the most part. In Secure every job/class had a role. Nin can spy on enemy OP and try to quickly assassinate healers/casters. Tanks can stun melees and protect healers. Brds can harass casters from a distance. Decide whether or not to raid enemy OP or stay in position, etc. All of this without premadesQuote:
Originally Posted by Stupiduglytaru
-
03-05-2015, 04:57 AMEvangela
We need new sets of PvP gears. they should make new gears equal to the current tomestone gears for every update to maintain the popularity of PvP.
people don't do it because there's little to no reward. and that's why we have these ridiculous DF queue times. -
03-05-2015, 05:00 AMKiara1Thisthisthis^Quote:
Originally Posted by Laeore
-
03-05-2015, 05:01 AMOsiril
I'm not a pvp player but when i play wow i do BG's with pleasure sometime only thing i do when i log on....but queue wa something arount 2min so...
Here i do pvp only once, other try not happen cause queue scary me away :p
SE do something cause pvp is nice addition to entire game, something different but it is necesary.
Maybe merge all regions for pvp queue, we have auto translation thing so.. -
03-05-2015, 05:14 AMNalien
Slaughter is awful and last I heard the next thing on the horizon is another Frontlines map and rule set, which just fuels my suspicion that the developers don't know what they're doing; They going for quantity over quality. Rather than refining what they have and working out any issues, they're instead opting to just add more mediocre content. I'd much rather have seen Secure given a series of improvements over Slaughter being added at all. I'd much rather have seen Wolves' Den made relevant over Slaughter being added at all.
Triple Triad Tournaments also just makes it painfully obvious that they're either just woefully ignorant of, or simply don't care about, win trading. All hope for Wolves' Den and any future PvP Tournaments goes out the window until that, an issue which showed its ugly head over a year ago, is dealt with. Frontlines (Assault), or whatever they have planned for 3.0, is going to have to be damned amazing to salvage PvP. The entire notion of just adding more game modes with this small of a core PvP community is just absurd to me though...
Glamours are a pretty rubbish/short sighted reward though. They either have to keep churning them out, which is costly and results in those i110 pieces (pathetic reskins) or they take their time and queues dry up as people wait for the next set, which I guess is what we're facing now?Quote:
Originally Posted by Evangela
I still think if they wanted to get people into PvP they should have just had the Materia Merchant in Wolves' Den Pier sell all Materia. If I could buy Det IV for 40,000 Wolf Marks I'd be in a PvP queue pretty much non-stop... Spiritbonding or PvP, tough choice... :rolleyes:
Frequent tournaments are the best option though. Every week you'd enter to win. Same can't be said for Rank grinding or obtaining anything with Wolf Marks. Tournaments are really something which should have been added to Wolves' Den asap. -
03-05-2015, 05:24 AMWeedity
I really really wanted to try the pvp in this game, I always was a fan of WoW pvp so I figured give it a shot. Well, I got the quest to get to Wolves Den, registered in the duty finder.....and waited 200 minutes before giving up.
Two hundred minutes and more to get in? No, I didn't even get in. I just left the duty finder. After I came home and saw it was STILL looking for a match, 200 minutes in, I never tried it again.
It's a shame, because I really want to do the pvp....but waiting 50 minutes to do one dungeon is enough. I can't stand waiting around anymore. -
03-05-2015, 05:58 AMNalien
Sadly, solo queuing Wolves' Den is just a waste of time. You either form a premade (win trading or not) or you're screwed...
Perhaps they should go the Chocobo Racing route and just slap some NPCs in there... OK that's shitty PvE, but think about it... The issue with queue times is one which compounds itself; People don't queue because queue times take too long, thus queue times take longer as less people queue. If you throw NPCs into the mix, you get instant queue times. People now queue because it takes a minute at most and because of that they end up against other people rather than NPCs.
PvE Wolves' Den with a chance for PvP is certainly better than no Wolves' Den at all, right? -
03-05-2015, 06:59 AMYitanHeck no, that's like playing Counter Strike against bots.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalien
Yeah, I'd play it to farm the marks and PvP EXP, but after that, I'd never step back in. -
03-05-2015, 07:17 AMDoctorPepper
In my opinion they simply need to add a function that will fill teams with "mercenaries" if they are not the proper GC. At the end of the day this could still meet the lore requirements with some creative writing and it would improve queue times significantly for frontlines.
Other than that the only thing they can do short of adding some new pvp is increase the rewards. I think a lot of people are turned off by the fact that they need thousands of wins in order to get gear that ends up simply being for glamour. -
03-05-2015, 07:25 AMStupiduglytaru
As we can switch gc's no problem, why not have it that reach max all gc's you can now pvp as all. Although really just ditch the lore crap altogether, GS has killed what little amount of people pvped anyway. I could easily do 40-80matches a week (5-20min pop times), since GS i did just 8 that week with 3hr ques....i see virtually none of the old faces anymore
New maps im looking forward to, the lbs are fine the way they are. Alot of complaints about pvp are from bad players imo, this isnt AI your fighting its a real person.
Working as a team is key in this but tbh i wish they added 1v1 that doesn't rely on everyone, the issue then is balance tho as "supreme solo jobs" will only be used -
03-05-2015, 08:13 AMNalienSo you'd rather Wolves' Den just continue to basically be non-content?Quote:
Originally Posted by Yitan
Unless you have a premade (which you could still do and completely avoid NPCs), you are not getting in Wolves' Den. While PvE certainly isn't something I want in PvP, it at least creates a scenario where it deals with itself; PvE Wolves' Den makes queues incredibly quick. More people queue for Wolves' Den as a result. More people queuing means more less NPCs and thus more real PvP.
I'd much rather have that, than no Wolves' Den at all. All they'd need to do then is work on a Tournament/Leaderboard system to act as a constant lure, since Rank and glamour options aren't the greatest unless they constantly keep adding more. Had they done that to begin with maybe we wouldn't have this problem at all, but here we are. Horrible Wolves' Den queues mean nobody queues for Wolves' Den which makes Wolves' Den queues horrible, what's your solution? -
03-05-2015, 08:56 AMCrimsonforce
The only way i see them being able to fix pvp is make it so all servers can queue up for PVP only, problem we have atm is it's only connected with your data center if they made it to all servers the queue times would be alot faster then it is now.
-
03-05-2015, 09:59 AMsarehptar
The most basic problem is that not everyone who likes Final Fantasy likes PvP. You can't take a franchise that has, with only a few exceptions, been a PvE experience and suddenly turn all of its fans into PvPers. Think of the story-modes of a lot of FPS games--they are clearly not the main draw of their games and are pretty much ignored as soon as possible. Games have certain audiences, and while MMOs draw a really diverse crowd, there's simply not enough people playing FFXIV who also really like PvP to make for short queue times. And since the queue times are so long, the people who do genuinely like PvP give up, making it even more impossible to get into a match.
I don't think that offering better rewards for currently existing modes will change this--they already offer gear, titles, mounts, achieves, etc. They can't just keep heaping rewards on, hoping that something FINALLY draw in the big crowds. I think the only way that PvP is going to be fixed in this game is by making it appeal to more people. That is, basically, make it more fun, so that more people who try it will stick with it. For PvP to draw a greater number of players in this game, it needs to be more interesting than other things in the game, and right now I don't think it's engaging enough to say that.
...Or they could just do this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalien
-
03-05-2015, 10:12 AMLaeoreSeems like you don't understand that there are people who PvP, and its already in game. People don't queue because queues are too long, not because there aren't enough PvP players. The whole system is there, including the rewards, but the complaint is that people have hour long queues due to a single restriction. At the end of the day, the only fix to the situation is eliminating the Grand Company restriction in one form or the other (like Mercenaries).Quote:
Originally Posted by sarehptar
-
03-05-2015, 11:00 AMNalienThe Grand Company restriction isn't what's keeping Wolves' Den dead. If it wasn't for the queue times I think Wolves' Den would actually be the best option for powering through Ranks and obtaining the gear, but yeah... No one queues for it solo...Quote:
Originally Posted by Laeore
A Mercenary system for Frontlines would be great though. I'd much rather have that than see them strip it of the Grand Company aspect, since then we wouldn't have Win Adders and the world would be a darker place... People who don't care get their faster queues, those of us who do still get our Grand Company based team. Everybody is happy. -
03-05-2015, 11:12 AMsarehptarQueues would not be long if a large number of people were queuing. You're just presenting a chicken and egg situation. Queues are short when PvP content is new because people get interested in it. Over time the people who are not dedicated to PvP lose interest, and queues get longer. When queues get longer, yet more people stop queuing, making queues--you guessed it, even longer! The Grand Company restriction might make Frontlines queues a bit longer than they absolutely have to be, but as Nalien said, that does not account in any way for the Wolves' Den being the deadest thing out there. There simply aren't enough people with a dedicated interest in PvP in this game to keep queue times consistently short. To solve the problem of long queues, more players need to become interested in PvP. This is all basic logic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Laeore
-
03-05-2015, 11:22 AMLaeoreDo you even PvP, bro? Queues are long because they're gated by GC. If you have swapped GCs, you will notice that the queue varies depending on GC. The queue isn't to pace people out of matches, but to match people up. It doesn't even make sense to try and incentivize PvEers, when you have PvPers who want to play but can't due to dat queue.Quote:
Originally Posted by sarehptar
-
03-05-2015, 11:27 AMLaeoreI think the GC issue effects both Frontlines and Wolves Den. As a longtime PvP player in every game I've ever played, I rarely even Wolves Den anymore because of its imbalance. Frontlines is super fun, and most of the people I play with agree. Just can't beat dat queue.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalien
-
03-05-2015, 11:29 AMsarehptarDo you even read, bro? Wolves' Den isn't gated by GC and yet has the longest queues out of all of them. What's the reason for that? It's old and no one is interested in it anymore. As Frontlines ages, less people are interested in it, and its queue times increase.Quote:
Originally Posted by Laeore
Literally what you are arguing makes no sense: "The queue is long, so it doesn't make sense to incentivize anyone new to queue." Basic computing error there, methinks.
(Also, lol @ "Do you even PvP, bro?" when the account you're posting under has fewer PvP achieves than me.) -
03-05-2015, 11:46 AMLaeorelololol okay. So we have a problem with queue length... that you say will be intensified as more people queue. That is, the more people who PvP the longer it will take. And you think that incentives for a wider breadth of people will help people PvP more? PvEers will PvP until the rewards they want are won. PvPers will PvP as long as the match remains interesting. What PvPers don't find interesting is sitting and waiting for their queue to pop. People want to PvP more, but can't. So my suggestion is to solve that issue first before committing resources to additional incentives. I believe that the GC restriction affects queue times. I didn't bring up Frontlines or Wolves Den specifically, someone else did. Your post that I quoted didn't bring up either of them specifically either. So we were talking about PvP in general. The health of PvP. My entire point is that the queue length is the single greatest barrier to people PvPing now. Feel free to continue schooling me on "logic".Quote:
Originally Posted by sarehptar
Also, I'm of the opinion that FF14 should do what SWTOR did and put all PvP under one queue option. You queue for PvP and it randomizes between Wolves Den, Slaughter, Frontlines, blah blah blah. This prevents older content from being unofficially obseletededed. -
03-05-2015, 12:09 PMNalienIt doesn't. The Grand Company restriction is solely for Frontlines. Wolves' Den had its own Rank restriction, which was piss-poorly implemented. It matched your party up based on your PvP Rank. If anything it should have matched players up based on their win ratio. Even then though, they only implemented that restriction because win traders got i100 and started stomping everyone with Morale gear, which naturally put a lot of people off. Now that Morale is much weaker there seems like little reason for the restriction to still be in place, yet there it is...Quote:
Originally Posted by Laeore
Doesn't help that Wolves' Den was split into several brackets to further compound the queue issues, with the i80 option not even being apparent since you have to unlock it by talking to an NPC with no indication that you should talk to said NPC (that's always going to irk me it seems).
Really, Wolves' Den has just been poorly handled and forgotten about. They're more interested in churning out new Frontlines versions. Secure put the last nails in Wolves' Dens coffin, Slaughter is doing the same to Secure and Slaughter seems to be largely unpopular as it is. It certainly put me off PvP.
The Grand Company restriction is certainly not helping Frontlines queues, but at the end of the day PvP is suffering because "for fun" isn't keeping people interested long enough. I'll do PvP "for fun", but it wont consistently keep me doing PvP. Likewise, the physical rewards wont keep people queuing consistently. Some people get them then stop. All of that causes queues to eventually just suffer over time and then people cannot get back in; "These queues are too long, I wont bother".
What PvP really needs is rewards which are unique to it and consistently useful. Currently the most Wolf Marks offer you once you've obtained whatever gear you want is a desynthesis option, which is nice but not everyone crafts... Appealing to e-peen seems like the best option; A proper Leaderboard system and Tournaments would keep something like Wolves' Den appealing in the long term. Something like Final Fantasy XIs Conquest system could keep Frontlines appealing as well. Instead we get new versions which are hot for a week or two, but once people move on the damage is done and queues suffer.
With Slaughter in the mix? No. I don't use the PvP Roulette because of Slaughter. If there was only one option and it might stick me in Slaughter I'd drop PvP completely.Quote:
Originally Posted by Laeore
-
03-05-2015, 12:25 PMLaeoreReally well written post. I don't like Slaughter either. I just think they should have all in one queue or part them out individually. Roulette sucks as is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalien
-
03-05-2015, 12:41 PMsarehptarI think what I should be schooling you on is reading comprehension. Where in the world did I state anything like that? My point is the dead opposite. I don't know what weird server you are from, but where I play, queues don't get longer when more people queue, so long as there are no class restrictions. Frontlines isn't like dungeons where DPS have long queues because there are too many DPS in the game. Any party make-up can come in. So long as you have 8x8x8 or 24x24x24 from the different GCs, you would have an instant pop. The fact that we don't have instant pops for Frontlines tells you that there are not even 8 people from each GC queuing for Frontlines at any given moment. By basic math, if we could get enough people from each GC to queue for Frontlines consistently, then there would be consistently shorter queues. Maybe if we could get many other people to queue, there'd actually be enough people for multiple instances to form at once! Insta-pops for everyone! More people queuing would not suddenly clog up the system and cause everyone to wait in one long line like you seem to be imagining. This isn't Disneyland.Quote:
Originally Posted by Laeore
Unfortunately, a few people wanting to PvP more does not make consistent full parties. And until we can constantly make full parties, queues will remain long. So long as queues remain long, people who want to PvP will continue to give up on long queues or just not queue at all. It’s my same point all over again: the number of dedicated PvPers in this game is too low for short queues. We need more dedicated PvPers to make shorter queues. I cannot state it any more simply than that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Laeore
Would removing the GC restriction from Frontlines lower queue times? Yes. I never argued that it wouldn’t. But it would not have as much of an effect as you are imagining. The Wolves’ Den—as we’ve been trying to tell you!—is proof that having no GC restriction is not enough to produce low queue times for PvP.
I agree, literally it’s what I’ve been saying this whole time. However, what I disagree with is the idea that simply removing one restriction is going to magically solve our long queue problem. The health of PvP in this game is impacted by something even more important than queue times: player interest. So long as PvP in this game continues to appeal largely to people who are dedicated PvPers, queue times will always be long. The greatest chore of the FFXIV team is not to cater to people who are already dedicated PvPers, but to find ways to make dedicated PvPers out of people who have long been dedicated PvErs. As I mentioned in my first post, I don’t believe rewards like glamor gear and mounts are working to do this. Until the team finds a way to create a type of PvP which is engaging to the biggest majority present in this game, PvP in FFXIV will continue to suffer from an overall lack of players, translating into exceedingly long queue times for dedicated PvPers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Laeore
A PvP roulette that queues you for everything you’re eligible for would be fine by me. I’d appreciate this if it were an option.Quote:
Originally Posted by Laeore
-
03-05-2015, 01:26 PMNalien
You know what would get me really invested with PvP? Competing for equipment.
Not in the sense of claiming an NM or rolling a higher lot or anything, but gear you obtain in PvP and lose in PvP. Something I could constantly compete for week after week, which could be adjusted with the updates to remain relevant... Rank it lower than current endgame weapons but still fairly high (i125 for now?) so PvEers could be enticed, slap enough Morale on it to make it better than the current top PvP option and a new stat which is actually negative (so like Blood for Blood, OK you've got an awesome weapon, but you're now easier to beat) to prevent the owner from just being out right OP.
Just one per Job per server or something. The owner has to battle to keep the weapon, others battle to obtain it and it changes hands frequently as a result. Kind of like the whole Emperor concept they had in ESOs (RIP) PvP. Sandbox style content like that really is the way forward with PvP, we've got to have something to compete over given the "Everyone's a winner!" rewards we currently have... I'd certainly welcome the developers to at least try with such content even if they fail, rather than having them go "Here's our latest theme park ride! It's just as awful as Slaughter!". -
03-05-2015, 04:27 PMChiramuSlaughter is more fun than Secure(no one protected the flags to begin with...) the just plain skirmish is more fun ^^.Quote:
Originally Posted by myahele