[Suggestion] Two sets of deck rules for Triple Triad

Keep the current rarity restriction for PvP, but allow us unlimited decks for dealing with NPCs. We can build one deck for playing against other players and one using all those awesome cards we got against NPCs. As it stands now, it's just not worth collecting all of them. Making players try so hard for cards we will never be able to use more of is twisted at best.

But collecting them is what allows you that unlimited use. Isn't that how it works? Once you have 30 cards, you can use all the 2* cards you want. Once you have 60, you can use all the 3* cards you want, etc.

Even assuming I could ever reach 60 (if I became so inclined), a deck of 3* cards mean very little vs a deck full of 4* and 5*s. Players are permanently gimped. Playing against NPCs atm is basically playing against cheaters. Having separate deck rules would be the best of both worlds.

The NPCs are also morons. If they followed the same rules players did, or if players were allowed unrestricted decks, there would be little to no challenge in it at all.

I'd rather they make the AI a bit better at it... but how it is now if I could use whatever against them I'd almost never lose.

I can pretty much tell you the reason "why" that is unlikely to happen...
Wait for it...
"It will be too easy/nerfed/carebear" - Some guy who need TT dominance to feel special.

Suppose we enforce the following deck restrictions:
15+ cards: 2 star unrestricted, 1 3+ card
30+ cards: 3 star unrestricted, 1 4+ card
45+ cards: 4 star unrestricted, 1 5 card
60+ cards: 4 star unrestricted, 2 5 cards

You still have to play the starter NPCs to get your first 15. But now you will not be completely decimated by everyone outside of GS since you can use 2 stars. Get 30 cards, which takes some time and dedication, running dungeons, buying packs, selectively hunting down easy/reasonable prey... and you can use 3 stars.
Then just continue collecting and eventually you will unlock everything... Which also makes 4 stars, other than Minfilia, useful. Lets face it, other than in a Scion deck there are no 4 stars that truly warrant the high rarity card slot. Primals have Bahamut, Garleans have Gaius, Beastmen have nothing but who'd play beastmen if you can play Scions and Primals.

I am open to compromise. I could live with them reducing the needed cards to unlock the next tier. Hell, keep the one 5* part even after unlocking the 4* cards. I just don't get excited over getting cards I can't use.

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Originally Posted by Lethallin

The NPCs are also morons. If they followed the same rules players did, or if players were allowed unrestricted decks, there would be little to no challenge in it at all.

I'd rather they make the AI a bit better at it... but how it is now if I could use whatever against them I'd almost never lose.

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Without Swap, Plus, or Ascension for players to abuse, the NPCs that spam high power cards don't need smarts. You can pick a lock to open a door, but a sledgehammer does a fine job, too.

I really like how they setup the Triad NPC's in this game. They are supposed to provide a challenge to obtain the rare cards. Saying that the NPC is unfair or overpowered is the same as saying "Why does this boss hit harder than me? I'm a DPS, this is unfair. I should be able to do the exact same thing the boss is able to do."

Consider each NPC a boss fight and get over it. You can't just jump right into Final Coil at level 50 and expect to get through it. You have to go farm other dungeons to get better gear to be able to down that content. Same thing with Triad: You have to go farm other cards (dungeons) to better your decks (gear) to be able to take down harder NPC's (bosses).

By that analogy, once we "defeat" these bosses, we should get something, right?
Its not like we're repeatedly wiping the floor with them from the first match. We need to farm cards, devise strategies, experiment, and eventually get lucky in order to win.
Yet it takes not just "multiple" wins to receive a reward... it sometimes takes dozens if not hundreds of wins. How long could you keep raiding if T13 was farmable, you could get as much loot as you wanted, except instead of dropping 2 items + upgrade tokens every kill, he had a 5% chance to drop "something".

Beat T13 20 times... get a Carboncoat... no weapons, no armor, Carboncoat.
Beat it another 20 times... Oh! A weapon just magically appeared in my inventory!... Just... I already have that one, and its not even for my class...
And after ano- oh... the timer expired... now we have to wait 42 minutes before we can go again... for 30 minutes...

This is how card farming feels.
We know that it is not supposed to be "easy" or "fast", but there is a little too much luck in it sometimes.
In my FC we have a guy who's got 57 cards. I myself have 38.
We also have someone who started at the same time that we did, on King, and after 3 days of playing King for 4-6 hours a day... No Bahamut. He's earned nearly 100k points, and has 22 Godberts... no Bahamut.
I got Bahamut after 7 Godberts, the guy with 57 cards got Bahamut in under an hour.
So much RNG, so much luck. Eventually the fun turns into tedium, then frustration, then it just gets boring.

said it b4 ill say it again.. its not that hard to defeat npcs just like it isnt that hard to get enough cards to unlock the next tier to "upgrade your deck" honestly the amount of QQ threads since TT has been added is ._. if anything the difficulty of npcs should be increased once you unlock 2* deck u can pretty much wipe the floor with most npcs except a couple anyways

and as for the drop rate % for rares would u prefer every man n his dog had every 5 * obtainable with little or no farming involved?? i say gratz to those who manage to drop those cards espiecally the ultra rare 5 *s people who have those deserve to have n advantage for TT tournaments n TT pvp

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Originally Posted by Spawnie

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Rowena and Landanel say "Hi". Now, don't get me wrong, all NPCs have their strategy to get beaten, but those 2 are the exception for 2 things: Their card pool is overpowered and they have the Random rule on you. Good luck beating a deck full of 3 stars + 2 4 and 5 stars that have 6-7 and 8-A on their sides while you might get nothing but cards with a max of 7's on 2 sides and probably a 4 or 5 star. There is no strategy for these 2, only pure luck.

Suppose we enforce the following deck restrictions:
15+ cards: 2 star unrestricted, 1 3+ card
30+ cards: 3 star unrestricted, 1 4+ card
45+ cards: 4 star unrestricted, 1 5 card
60+ cards: 4 star unrestricted, 2 5 cards

This, so much this. When the NPC's have a 5 star, 2 3's and a 4, not having access to 2 star cards hurts. A lot.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

Suppose we enforce the following deck restrictions:
15+ cards: 2 star unrestricted, 1 3+ card
30+ cards: 3 star unrestricted, 1 4+ card
45+ cards: 4 star unrestricted, 1 5 card
60+ cards: 4 star unrestricted, 2 5 cards

This, so much this. When the NPC's have a 5 star, 2 3's and a 4, not having access to 2 star cards hurts. A lot.

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That seems slightly OP with the end result.

I would do:

20+ cards: 2 star unrestricted, one 3+ star card
40+ cards: 3 star unrestricted, one 4+ star card
60+ cards: 3 star unrestricted, two 4 star cards or one 4 star card and one 5 star card

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Originally Posted by BlueThunder

Rowena and Landanel say "Hi". Now, don't get me wrong, all NPCs have their strategy to get beaten, but those 2 are the exception for 2 things: Their card pool is overpowered and they have the Random rule on you. Good luck beating a deck full of 3 stars + 2 4 and 5 stars that have 6-7 and 8-A on their sides while you might get nothing but cards with a max of 7's on 2 sides and probably a 4 or 5 star. There is no strategy for these 2, only pure luck.

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thats why i said most XD but still think the npcs need increase in difficulty some npcs once u hit unlimited 2 * arent even a challenge anymores and i assume once ur unlimited 3 or 4 * its gonna be exactly the same hell ive seen npcs make stupid moves that they could of flipped 2 cards with 4 spaces on the board n they throw it in the stupidest spot possible lol

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Originally Posted by Spawnie

thats why i said most XD but still think the npcs need increase in difficulty some npcs once u hit unlimited 2 * arent even a challenge anymores and i assume once ur unlimited 3 or 4 * its gonna be exactly the same hell ive seen npcs make stupid moves that they could of flipped 2 cards with 4 spaces on the board n they throw it in the stupidest spot possible lol

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Well, yeah... Remember that TT is not "core" game content.
You get no gil, no materia, no equipment, TT, like chocobo racing is its own contained game meant to be fun.
Raiding, which you are adamantly comparing TT to provides gear, access to resources, and has a large multi-player progressive structure to it... TT is a solo card game meant to serve as something fun to do during downtime.

As I said before, there must be a balance of difficulty and reward.
You want an NPC who forces you to have a random hand while they magically have nothing but 4 and 5 stars in there's (Rowena and Landenel), AND for them to make ideal decisions every time so that they win 99% of the time?
Okay, sure, why not. But on that amazingly off chance that we DO beat them, then based on that absurd difficulty you want, they MUST drop EVERY SINGLE CARD THEY HAVE. Otherwise there really is no point.

Difficulty must match reward. I for one am a graduate student, I do not have all day every day to spend randomly losing to some OP NPC deck wherein I have next to no control over the outcome... just to hopefully win 1 in 50-100 matches, and have a "small chance" at getting a new card... Yeah, I kinda have a life outside this game?
And I honestly think the devs realize this... that making content with a 95% failure rate, followed by a 5% progression rate on the 5% success rate (ie play 400 matches to "hopefully" get an upgrade) is not how you retain customers in 2015.

I'd like it to be more gradual. 30 cards is required to unlock unlimited 2* cards. I'd like something like 5 cards (starter deck) allows you one 2*, ten cards allows another, fifteen for a 3rd, twenty for a 4th and 30 for the 5th.

Only trouble I've had so far is Rowena and Landanel, but even then I've managed to Get Luoi and Odin from them it was just more time consuming. My biggest issue is getting past 60. I have to farm dungeons now T.T

@kenji1134 u do relise the more cards you have the less likely youre gonna have a handful of 1 stars when facing npcs with random rules right?? espiecally rowena and landanel always use that rule = more cards you have better chance you have aginst them since 2,3,4,5 star far outnumber 1 star cards = get 60 cards first so obviously leave those 2 til last since they are endgame of TT atm lmao

Luckily I decided to cut my Landenel farming time short. Played him for an hour, won a few times, lost many more times... Meh, got my Squall win, also beat Rowena once and left it at that.
For those who can, it is significantly easier to get Odin from the trial than winning him off Landenel.

Im at 52 cards now, need to farm up Tonberry, Chimera, Garuda (hate Marcette, even if I do win against her often enough), King Mog, Shiva, Ramuh, and Ultima... Louisoix is almost not worth farming without a 3 star deck.
Luckily some of the 60 card difficulty and RNG is offset by Bahamut and Squall being kinda reasonable to obtain. This is a good counter for unique cards like Lahabrea, who is only available in the silver pack.

So is it possible to obtain 60 cards... well yeah. Really no NPC is "unbeatable" given enough attempts. I beat Rowena with a 1 star deck, just had to play for 3 hours and finally I got my 5 star (Bahamut) AND she made the "dumb as bricks" move.
But there is a massive difference between beatable and "farmable"... And yet to get those 60 cards, you inevitably have to farm npcs who have overly strong decks with built in unfair rules, which just results in you being forced to grind against them until you win enough times to get what you want.

There's a few people in my FC who are really into TT. Once guy has 61 cards now... The irony is he has ALL of the npc cards, so he does not actually "need" his deck to go further... Aside from grinding Indolent for hours on end for points.
Conversely, there are others who after seeing him literally grind TT since it launched, want absolutely nothing to do with it anymore. They enjoy it, but seeing the sheer amount of time and RNG required to progress in something that offers absolutely no benefit to any other players or outside of itself, they just dont want to waste their time.

farming NPC's isn't about skill.

its about grind and RNG. . .

. . .just like the rest of the game.

you expected something different?