Hi All,
As you may have heard, Yoshida-san has mentioned that they are currently aiming to get rid of +1, +2, and +3 HQ Items in favor of just a "NQ" (Normal Quality) and one type of "HQ" (High Quality) Item.
The above post hints that the reason they want to get rid of +1, +2 and +3 Weapons and Armor is because they "can get confusing." Huh?! :confused: I don't recall ever seeing an outpouring of complaints on these SE Forums from people crying that +1, +2, +3 Crab Bows are "too confusing" and no one understands how to use them.Quote:
Naoki_Yoshida: We are planning a revamp for HQ item synthesis from Patch 1.20 on. Currently, there are multiple qualities of HQ items, which can get confusing. To fix this issue, we plan on separating these items into normal quality (NQ) and high quality (HQ).
Yoshida-san has also mentioned Server Space issues:
I also know that for many people, the lack of inventory space is their primary reason to want to get rid of +1, +2, and +3 Weapons, Tools and Armor.Quote:
Naoki_Yoshida: I receive a lot of suggestions to increase inventory space or make inventory unlimited, but it is impossible to possess every single item (which is increasing constantly through updates) on a single character. Please understand that this is physically impossible, because there is a cost related limit to server storage (the location where everybody’s character data is stored). In order to increase stored data, (tens of thousands of characters x numbers of items x bytes of each item) there is no other option but to increase hard drive size. Basically, charging fees for additional storage options exists to combat this issue.
Even for stand-alone package games, the size of the save data is greatly affected by the number of items, so the numbers of items and the size of each item are determined by available server space.
But I have to ask Yoshida-san and everyone:
- Is the problem truly with the *concept* of +1, +2 and +3 Weapons, Armor and Tools? OR, is it because there's not enough Space (Server Space and Individual Retainer Space)?
Because it sounds like for many people, the frustration is lack of Inventory. And Yoshida-san even hints at a lack of Server Space.
If that's the case, then the reason the FF Team wants to kill +1, +2, and +3 Weapons, Armor and Tools is a flawed reason: They're not doing because they fundamentally "disagree" with +1, +2, +3, but because Square-Enix doesn't have enough Server Space and they're finding a bandaid method to temporarily resolve this issue.
Personally, I like have +1, +2 and +3 Weapons, Armor and Tools. For example, for me:
- +1 Sword = Something that's slightly better than a Normal Sword. It provides a little more of an edge in Attack Power, Accuracy, etc.
- +2 Sword = Rarer than a +1. It's a higher goal for adventurers and crafters to strive for. It's an upgrade over a +1, which is an upgrade over NQ. Gives even more of an edge.
With a conversion of everything in our game to just 2 settings: NQ or "HQ" (1 version), we start getting a more homogenized, similar experience.
- +3 Sword = Rarest of them all. This is the upper bound. The highest stats for that particular item you can get. It's very hard to make, but when you get one, you feel a sense of accomplishment for gaining one.
Sure, Yoshida-san is hinting that our current +3 will most likely be the "HQ" in the future, but still, all everyone will see is just 2 states. People who have Normal Quality, and then 1 state of "HQ."
Of course we'll still have Materia to customize our Weapons / Armor further, but fundamentally, we lose some variety by removing +1, +2 and +3. I can live with either system, but there's a sense of loss and a feeling that the *reason* behind removing it is merely to temporarily solve some Inventory Issues (for Players) and Server Storage Issues (for SE).
If people had a Mog House (and more Storage), would those that are complaining about +1, +2, +3 Weapons / Armor / Tools have a problem then?
Thanks~
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08-26-2011, 04:01 PMKiaraYoshida-san - Please KEEP +1, +2, +3 Levels of HQ Weapons + Armor + Tools
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08-26-2011, 04:11 PMRisae
I agree. zehnzeichen
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08-26-2011, 04:46 PMMadruk
I don't really know of anyone holding onto different HQ versions of the same tool or weapon in the first place. They'll carry whatever highest HQ item they have.
This is mainly to relieve the frustration of collecting mass amounts of HQ mats to synth a finished product only to get the dreaded NQ. Despite what Yoshi says, this system really looks like it will encourage HQ flooding unless making HQ materials is like a 5% conversion rate. -
08-26-2011, 04:56 PMNexxus
NQ & HQ+3 is fine with me, using the materia system to make the quality of NQ like a +1, +2 should be enough.
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08-26-2011, 06:33 PMNuru
I certainly love having inv space of 100/100 on my main, 100/100 on retainer#1, and 99/100 on retainer#2... So, no to this, i like the ideas presented by Yoshi_P, unless all +1 +2 mats are done away with, and we get Monogrinders for our weapons and armor..
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08-26-2011, 06:37 PMRaze
since +1/2/3 (and all) parts are being done away with, that's inventory space right there. Call it a wash. (a lot of crafters save inane parts when they HQ)
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08-26-2011, 07:24 PMJabo
I also like the +1,+2,+3 system and I'm also not sure, if it really helps that much regarding the storage problem.
A bigger issue in my opinion is that the game forces you to have multiple crafts and multiple fighting classes.
80% of my inventory is just equipment for the different classes.
Multiple crafts means also far more mats.
But something has to happen that's for sure. I'm not even playing crafting classes and i sell a lot of stuff to npcs and i have like 40/300 free inventory spaces. Usually on my character, which get filled up in few hours during leves and fighting.
There are simply too much ingredients, items you get and need. -
08-26-2011, 09:29 PMRentahamster
I actually think that the +1+2+3 system propagates too much redundancy in the system, so I don't mind it going away. If it resolves some server issues at the same time, then all the better.
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08-26-2011, 10:19 PMRemVye
I think the "confusing" part that Yoshida is referring to is the fact that it doesn't really tell you what a [Crab bow + 1] gives you in stats compared to a [Crab bow +3]. You can't look at it and say 'ahh I get +10 damage and +6 accuracy' it just has stars next to it. Clearly the +3 > +1 but there is no quantifiable numbers associated with them, hence confusion.
I'm semi torn in this issue because I like seeing +1 and +3 items however I rarely see any +2 items and I'm afraid that in the future people will ONLY want HQ items. Granted I would like all HQ+3 items now, its just that money wont permit it. Also, the fact that you will only be required to have full HQ crafting mats to guarantee a HQ finished good.
Thinking about this now...that will mean that the lowest part in the mats will be required to be HQ (tin ore, iron ore, etc..) to create a HQ ingot then HQ plate etc... I expect crafting to get a whole lot more intense as well as DoL classes. We will need all those HQ mats! -
08-26-2011, 10:54 PMNotApplicable
I'm personally a fan of the current crafting system. If there's any complaints against it, it's because it seems getting HQ items is 'random luck' or 'too hard' for some folks. Some people aren't willing to experiment and attempt to understand the current system so they'll dismiss it as random. And now, as a result, we've got a guaranteed 100% chance of HQing something if you have HQ mats? Call me what you will, but I'm against dumbing down a system and make it as easy as possible for people.
That being said, there does seem to be more complaints about inventory space than the crafting system. I've never had a problem with inventory space, but I can assume that's because I don't carry around NQ, +1, +2, and +3 versions of various items. I've got it limited to the gear I use for crafting, for gathering, for pugilist, and for gladiator, whatever I'm grinding on for my current DoL, the Holiday / event items, and some various other things such as my eyepatch collection and some beastcoins. I'm only using about 180 out of my 300 inventory slots and most of that is the gear and items I've gotten from past events. -
08-26-2011, 11:00 PMKiaraHi RemVye,Quote:
Originally Posted by RemVye
Ah I see. Yah, I agree just seeing the "Star" next to the # is a flaw that I never understood with our current system. The actual # should've just changed instead of having a Star (or 2 or 3). In that case, "yes" I definitely agree it'd be nice for clarity. :)
It will be interesting as you say, with getting all HQ Mats to guarantee an HQ synth. -
08-26-2011, 11:06 PMKiaraHi Renta,Quote:
Originally Posted by Rentahamster
If I may ask, how does +1, +2, +3 add too much redundancy to the game? I guess if you mean in terms of a having a Sword +1 (so, 5% Boost) vs. Sword +2 (10% Boost) vs. Sword +3 (15% Boost), sure there's some overlap, but it's also different tiers of augmentation right?
But with this morning's Lodestone Update on Materia, I think this whole situation might go away...
Since if all Materia has IV "Tiers" of Potency, then *that* right there is going to be the new "+1, +2, +3, +4" then.
So if it turns out that
* Heaven's Eye Materia I = +2% Accuracy
* Heaven's Eye Materia II = +3% Accuracy
* Heaven's Eye Materia III = +4% Accuracy
* Heaven's Eye Materia IV = +5% Accuracy
Then, I understand and am fine with them reducing the base weapon to just NQ and HQ (since getting "HQ" (IV) Materia would be rare in and of itself (I hope)).
If the Materia I - IV is just a matter of converting a higher rank Weapon (so a R12 Sword gives you Heaven's Eye I, and a R50 Sword gives you Heaven's Eye Materia IV), then I'd still like to see +1, +2, +3 Weapons again. -
08-27-2011, 09:22 AMRentahamsterYes, there are different tiers of augmentation, which isn't a bad thing in and of itself, but does it really add more depth into the gameplay? FF11 had only NQ and HQ items, and when compared to FF14, there really doesn't seem to be any significant improvement in any kind of gameplay that would justify those extra tiers' (+1, +2, +3) existence in the first place. One can argue that it adds complexity to the crafting system, but complexity doesn't always necessarily equate to depth.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiara
I just want to make it clear that I don't really feel that strongly on the issue of HQ finished items. If it was up to me, I'd definitely remove +1,+2,+3 on all materials, and change it to NQ or +3 only, like they did for monster drops. I'm indifferent on making that same change to finished items, but if the devs think that it's a good idea to remove those too, then I don't have a problem with it. Besides, like I had mentioned earlier, it still has the side benefit of reducing item database strain as well as inventory glut.
As far as the issue of "redundancy", it just seems redundant to have a separate version of all finished items for such a small difference in stats. Besides, people are going to grind until they achieve their +3, so it doesn't matter how many tiers of quality there are since anything that is not a +3 is no different than if it were a NQ. There's is just not enough justification in the gameplay to warrant those extra tiers.
Indeed, but it makes a little more sense for materia since they are not as "permanent" as the gear itself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiara
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08-27-2011, 09:39 AMKamIf anyone missed that...Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexxus
It all depends on what materia can do. Though I hold the same hopes. Its all about server space right? -
09-01-2011, 06:29 AMTenshiGirisha
adding materia to your gear is gonna be risky especially IV version of it. so i ask u would u ever attempt to add a materia II to your +3 final item that has the lowest chance of failing. Congratz u got III materia on ur +3 final item. Next step to make it IV version is freakin insane risky... will u add it to ur +3 III materia that took u 4 months to make it?
so i say. few hours gathering n few hours grind drops. u start crafting making some HQ pieces. e.x u got 5 HQ. add the materia on it until V version. I dont think u gonna have 5 pieces of gear HQ left with IV materia on it. i dont think u even gonna have 1 IV version.
we gonna have the factor of breaking our gear on our way to materia IV now. I hope IV version of materia is gonna be as hard as +3 final items now. right now u got ur +3 gear and its the best, u cant lose it. but that is gonna change. even if u want yoshi to keep +1,+2,+3. system i think we gonna have some suicides here from ppl botchin their +3 gear trying to add materia on it. i hope u got my point -
09-01-2011, 06:34 AMOriginalHungerforceQuote:
Iこんにちは。
Hello,
採集で取得できるアイテムについては、パッチ1.19のタイミングで通常品質と高品質+3の2種類に変更され、高品質+1、高品質+2がでないようになります。
Regarding items you can gather; at the timing of patch 1.19 gathering items will be changed to normal quality and high quality +3 and +1 and +2 items will be removed.
これは、かばん圧迫への問題への対応と、先日吉田Pがコメントしている、「パッチ1.20以降予定のHQ製作改修」の一貫として 行われるものです。
This is part of what YoshiP commented to condense inventory space in this post: (link above) which will be done continuing for the HQ crafting changes planned for 1.20 patch or later.
また本スレッドのコメントの中にあった「+3だけが残った場合の高品質アイテム」の名称については現在検討中です。
We are also looking into what was commented in this thread regarding "If +3 will remain to rename it to HQ item name"
今後も引き続きフィードバックをお待ちしています。
We will be waiting for your continuing feedbacks.
I think the change is only going to be affecting materials... -
09-01-2011, 06:42 AMAvaI'm fine with them removing +2 and +3 because I forsee some major issues with the current design. A current example is Crab Bow +3. Even though the Archer bow from the raid is one of the hardest and rarest drops, it's still worse than the Crab Bow. If they keep +3 in the game, they will either have to make the super rare drops leaps and bounds ahead of everything thus making them OP, or scale down the value of +1 +2 +3 etc. I think the best way of dealing with it just get rid of the convoluted system, and maybe use the +2 and +3 idea for only specific items down the line once everything else is figured out. Kind of like how it was used in FFXI.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiara
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09-01-2011, 07:14 AMluckfield
I don't believe people would keep the lower HQ version of weapon or armor if a higher HQ version is used. For instance I have Crab Bow +3 and even if I previously owned +2 I woudln't keep both copy. So basically +1/+2/+3 variation to weapon/armor wouldn't occupy more inventory space than it is now nor would it ease up inventory space/server storage space after changes being made to them.
If the variation of HQ is a problem to inventory space then Materia system is going to add twice to five fold burden to inventory. 5 tiers of materia per type? Keeping different gear set for soulbinding growth? These can easily claim up to 20 inventory slots real fast.
Back to topic; I don't see a problem of they removing +1/+2 for newly created weapon/armor, but I am all against downgrading or upgrading existing +1 and +2. It just doesn't make sense for people who currently own +1 or +2, which I could assume almost everyone has at least a +1 or +2 end game weapon/armor and almost everyone is going to be affected. I for one don't want my Aeolian Scimitar +1 becomes NQ; it is too hard and too rare to obtain a +2 or +3 for crafted weapon/armor that requires parts that are dropped from NM. (I had Buffalo Horn +3 but it turned out to be a Buffalo Horn Sword Grip +1 only and that only helped to obtain +1 scimitar at the end. So it really pains me if +1 becomes NQ).
TLDR
I say just grandfather the old +1/+2/+3 weapon and armor. I don't see a reason to change the old ones.
Simplifying HQ for the newly created ones is fine. -
09-01-2011, 09:30 AMVolsung
I would be ok with them removing +1 and +2 mats and making +3 mat +1 so all you'll have is NQ and HQ mats, but keep the system of +1/2/3 weapons armor tools. I think that would be a beautiful solution.
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09-01-2011, 12:22 PMLabotohsBasically the same I think about that. Weapon and tool HQ variety is interesting and makes things a bit more diverse.Quote:
Originally Posted by Volsung
Also, about the crab bow issue brought up, I think that's actually pretty good, as it rewards good (and lucky =x) crafting, giving an edge to their role. And its not like its common to see those +3.