Is this classed as harassment?

Hey all,
Well not sure really what to do with this, recently had someone relentlessly undercutting me. Now tbh i have no issue with undercutting unless your dropping below cost to make thats just bad business sense, however i have noticed within a two minute period of placing an item for sell his is then adjusted.

I had this market for about 2 weeks, this is a new face to the scene. Myself personally would never stick by the mb constantly adjusting prices enabling others to have their items sold too.

I started checking out this persons location regularly, each time price was adjusted he was in a zone with no bells. Which leaves me to two conclusions, a second char stationed at the mb or hacking

Its beginning to annoy me now, i know hes watching me as soon as i log in he enters his retainer. Everytime i log in i can see this, hes now also beginning to sell and uncut me on other items i craft

Sounds like a douchecanoe, but he can list things for whatever price he wants. :(

I am going to go ahead and say no, not harassment. At least not from what you have said so far. If this is a new crafter for your market, of course he will try to get his share and if he feels that he can see the product for less and still make a profit, that is not an attack on you personaly. Now if he started sending you tells when his items sold and yours did not, then that would be harassment, but not just because someone else spends more effort making his prices the lowest.

Now if you really wanted to push him out of the market, drop your prices to equal the cost of materials for those crafts, that will make it unprofitable for other crafters to make those items. If you can keep it up and force this new player out of your market then you can raise your prices back up once you are alone on the boards.

Is Walmart harassing Target by lowering their prices all the time?

Depends on your definition of "harass"....

But as for in game definition for harassment, competing on price on the MB, that is fair game. Here is a tip for you. When the price is low, by them out and then resell for profit at the price you like. Remember buy low, sell high. Flippers love to find opportunities like that.

No. It's not harassment. Sounds liem He's just trying to outsell you and push you out of the market. No rules whatsoever one how much you have to sell things for or how often you can change your price. Either you outlast him and he finds a different market, or you move on to a new market. Honestly what you could do is, if he's undercutting you enough. Push him into dropping his prices as low as you can them buy him out and out it back up at your price. That removes him, and you gain a good profit off of him trying to push you out.

this post reeks of greed and paranoia. None of this is harassment, PLUS you're stalking the guy and checking the MB just as much as he is now lol... You wanna know my secret to beating under-cutters (that has worked btw)???

STOP ADJUSTING YOUR PRICES!!!! please please please realize that there is a thing called tax... sure you are not at the tippy top of the list but your product IS STILL CHEAPER because there is no tax on your county at that moment. (and people do pay attention to that stuff) If you were really here to make gil then you would have realized that a long time ago... and not let yourself be turn into the very thing your complaining about. Find a happy sitting point for your product and if he/she undercuts you by crazy amounts then let his sell because time vs. money and your here for the money... not a quick sell.

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Originally Posted by NyarukoW

Is Walmart harassing Target by lowering their prices all the time?

Depends on your definition of "harass"....

But as for in game definition for harassment, competing on price on the MB, that is fair game. Here is a tip for you. When the price is low, by them out and then resell for profit at the price you like. Remember buy low, sell high. Flippers love to find opportunities like that.

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This doesn't work on a lot of items, they will just make a new one and under cut you more. It only works on very fast selling items.

If he sells something below cost, buy it and resell it for a profit. He can't sell something below cost forever, and you can profit from it by getting that item cheaper then you can make it.

No this isnt harassment. I wouldnt have even made a thread about it. If he lists for really low prices then buy the product out yourself and immediately re list it. In addition to crafting and other income means Ive always worked the AH in every MMO ive played. I used to do it in FFXI as well. If venemous claws were selling for 7 million gil and someone listed for 6 million I would buy it and re list it. Even at 6.5m I would buy it. I did this with all sorts of items and made millions just playing the AH. The economy in XIV is different but you can still use these tactics if someone undercuts you substantially.

Its a free market, people can sell what they want for what they want.

Like i mentioned, been 2 weeks so far and its virtually impossible to sell my items or a matter of fact anyone else trying from 5pm to 2am ST (goes on allday but that's when im on.
Whenever i log on, check retainer i see my items still there and his retainer nowhere to be seen. Within a minute recheck, his items are back up.
I have no issue with undercutting at all, but i would like to know how someone knows within 2mins of my adjustment that this is happened when they are not in a zone capable of checking in the first place.
I could clear 2mil a day easily, logging in placing items then going about my daily business but now im forced to check retainer whenever i can.
Each item he sells is instantly resupplied, the profit has been destroyed by him. Easy 100k per item is now around 5-20k
Now im starting to see him on all my other bread and butter items, from different crafts i might add.

Well either he has the mats for it, and levels, or has friends working on it with him. I had a friend who was in college and him and his 2 roommates took turns playing 1 character. They crafted and gathered like no other. He could easily be doing the same thing. Or just have friends who gather for him. Who knows. But this not harassment and there's really nothing you can do outside of find a new craft.

I can tell you the part that others have already told you, that what he's doing is legal within the game. However, the other part that no one has addressed and that you're focused on is whether or not you believe it's possible, the things that he is doing.

In short, you're witchhunting for RMT/third party programs. If you believe he can't teleport to his home and that his house isn't located right next to a MB and the bell (which some are) and then can't go about back to his original business, then quit wasting the time of the forum peeps.

Just report him and ask the GM team to find out if any fishy RMT/third party program business is happening. You already said it yourself that you didn't care about the undercutting, but you suspect that something more is at hand. Just GM it and if nothing changes, then nothing is wrong and he's just dedicated to selling his goods.

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Originally Posted by Stupiduglytaru

Like i mentioned, been 2 weeks so far and its virtually impossible to sell my items or a matter of fact anyone else trying from 5pm to 2am ST (goes on allday but that's when im on.

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The other guy probably thinks you are harassing him.

But seriously. Incremental undercuts are the anemic lifeblood of the market board system. If you're going to get into it, you have to be ready for ruthless penny-shaving every minute of every hour of every day. I've been riding my retainer to sell gear that goes once every 24-36 hours. Competing sellers are not going to form a nice, orderly queue; they are going to snipe you hard.

That doesn't sound like harassment, but it does sound fishy.

It's likely not targeted to you as it is someone trying to automatically get the lowest price by underhanded means.
I'd send a report just to let the GM's know it should be investigated.

You tell me, is you overpricing your goods harassment to me the customer?

Price competition is a basic premise of capitalism. The fact that you are monitoring his behavior is a bit disturbing however. What he is doing is not harassment and it in no way involves interacting with you personally.

Still not harassment. And if you wanted to report him for some kind of hack you'd need a lot more than a gut feeling. Reporting someone because you THINK they might be cheating is not cool.

Maybe take a break from those items then? I made my millions selling HQ jewelry, but the market is now flooded on most low level goldsmithing items, so I had to switch out. Generally as soon as someone starts competing in "my" markets, I get out until they get bored.

Your just being put competed at every step. He produces cheaper than you, or else you would undercut more than him. He produces more than you, else he would run out of supply undercutting so hard. He's got more time than you cuz he adjusts priced minute to minute and you dont.

You have no edge. If you can't check board minute to minute then you have to produce cheaper than him so you can undercut below what he's willing to (large cuts that he wont match. Not that nickle and dime BS)

Otherwise balls in his court and you just have to hope he slows down or gets bored.

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Originally Posted by Noahlimits

.... And if you wanted to report him for some kind of hack you'd need a lot more than a gut feeling. Reporting someone because you THINK they might be cheating is not cool.

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Cheating is NOT harassment. Even you can't out right prove someone is cheating, if you have a gut feel that they are you have every right to report them, but do remember the GMs reserve the right to make the judgement call and they are busy as ever. Also they won't tell you what they did so you can not expect to know the outcome.

Definitely not harassment.. it's a free market and you have no proof at all that he's hacking. People undercut all the time, if they want to sell something below cost that's up to them and there isn't anything you can do about it.

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Originally Posted by NyarukoW

Cheating is NOT harassment. Even you can't out right prove someone is cheating, if you have a gut feel that they are you have every right to report them, but do remember the GMs reserve the right to make the judgement call and they are busy as ever. Also they won't tell you what they did so you can not expect to know the outcome.

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I don't know, I feel like the kind of people who report everyone over everything just start witch hunts. "Man, X makes more gil than me! That must mean he buys gil! Time to report him!"

Welcome to the Market Life

I suppose the question im posing
Does this seem legit, i know everyone undercuts all the time, but this stands out to me as something not quite right. Its not possible to do what hes doing unless a second char or hacks involved, thats when it takes undercutting to a whole new level. Amyway called gm about this, i dont mind being undercut by legitimate players but this quite clearly isnt
Of all the items i sale and recipes etc etc thats possible to find his retainer now selling on 20+ items i sale and rising thats where i have felt this is harassment

I have 2 separate accounts. It is not hard to believe at all that he does too. Essentially, whats happening is someone is stepping into a part of the market that is obviously controlled by a single person. He has found a way to weasel out some gil on that world, and he gets accused if harassment and cheating because of it. Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't know I had to stay in the same area for 30 minutes after changing prices on my wares (exaggeration of course). My point is, it is far too easy to port to limsa, adjust my prices, then go to e shroud to finish out the kills in that region for my 3rd relic. You are feeling the pressure of competition, and the way you react is way over the top.

lmao welcome to the market world

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Originally Posted by Stupiduglytaru

... i know everyone undercuts all the time, but this stands out to me as something not quite right. Its not possible to do what hes doing unless a second char or hacks involved, thats when it takes undercutting to a whole new level. Amyway called gm about this, i dont mind being undercut by legitimate players but this quite clearly isnt
Of all the items i sale and recipes etc etc thats possible to find his retainer now selling on 20+ items i sale and rising thats where i have felt this is harassment

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if you think that he's selling things from zones that don't have Summoning Bells, consider that the person who crafted this item is not the one actually selling it
It's USUALLY a safe assumption that the crafter name on the item is the person who's selling, but there's also people out there who flip items, buy stacks to use a few and sell the rest, or actually pay someone to craft a bunch of items for them so they can resell.

this kind of just sounds like he's multiboxing and doesnt like you.

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Originally Posted by Stupiduglytaru

....Of all the items i sale and recipes etc etc thats possible to find his retainer now selling on 20+ items i sale and rising thats where i have felt this is harassment

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FYI in some threads discussing undercut, I've read some ppl said that if they have been undercutted, they will target your retainer and revenge (at all costs). And they enjoy this MB PvP.

I think the best solution for you is don't list duplicate item and update your price more frequently.
IMO this may be a harassment but as long as the person has not contact you, I think further action like report that player is just wasting your time. ^^;