Mastapiece

Let's just first start with duty finder, perfect solution would be shorter time periods for any challenges, timeouts for the whole day should only occur for which was quit after quitting once. 3 quits from any would timeout all day for all, and remove the vote option, it is used to only hurry the quits. Second, coils or like them should be DF from the start. Third, Savage coils definitly needs DF and I can only hope they make more savage style gameplay be it previous or new battles, eventually unmemorizable and totally random battles for the total challenge.

In conclusion this will speed up gameplay and create more challenging battles. :cool::confused:

What? *stares in confusion*

Have you ever had a dream s- that s- that you um you had you d- you w- you could you do you would you want s- you you could do so m- you y- you do y- you could you wa- you want him to do you so much you could do anything?

Can't understand how post is confusing, I'm still trying to figure out why it ain't like this?

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Originally Posted by Mastanight

Can't understand how post is confusing, I'm still trying to figure out why it ain't like this?

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Having a comprehensible grasp on the English language would help for starters.

What I can glean is, you want dungeons and trials to have shorter time limits, you think that abandons should lock you out from redoing the particular dungeon for an entire day, and that three abandons in one day should lock you out from everything for an entire day. You also seem to want voting to abandon removed, higher level raids like Binding Coil to always be on the Duty Finder, and you also want content that involves more random mechanics instead of set patterns.

This is just to translate what I think you meant. Feel free to correct me if I've misinterpreted something.

I wrote according to the space available for 1 post, yes what you wrote sounds similiar and correct but excuse me for not writing in perect comprehensible form like you?

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Originally Posted by Mastanight

I wrote according to the space available for 1 post, yes what you wrote sounds similiar and correct but excuse me for not writing in perect comprehensible form like you?

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I didn't seem to have any difficulty translating what I thought you were trying to say within the confines of a single post – in fact, I even had room to tack on my own opinions if the notion struck my fancy – thus, I doubt you suffered from any kind of content limitation. Additionally, being able to convey your ideas in a clear and understandable manner is key to communication, and it's apparent that other posters were unable to adequately understand what you wished to communicate.

I doubt that has anything to do with anything, what is you point anyways? Seems you are more concerned with translation then ideas?

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Originally Posted by Kinkoz

Having a comprehensible grasp on the English language would help for starters.

What I can glean is, you want dungeons and trials to have shorter time limits, you think that abandons should lock you out from redoing the particular dungeon for an entire day, and that three abandons in one day should lock you out from everything for an entire day. You also seem to want voting to abandon removed, higher level raids like Binding Coil to always be on the Duty Finder, and you also want content that involves more random mechanics instead of set patterns.

This is just to translate what I think you meant. Feel free to correct me if I've misinterpreted something.

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How did you translate anything if you didn't understand it??? excuse me for wanting the game different then it is

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Originally Posted by Mastanight

I doubt that has anything to do with anything, what is you point anyways? Seems you are more concerned with translation then ideas?

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My point is that both your method of communicating your ideas as well as your ideas themselves are incredibly lazy and poorly thought out.

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Originally Posted by Kinkoz

My point is that both your method of communicating your ideas as well as your ideas themselves are incredibly lazy and poorly thought out.

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To expound upon this further:

The time limits are there to allow more than enough attempts should your party keep wiping, complete Duty Finder lockouts are unfairly punishing especially to premade groups who wish to farm or practice a single part of a dungeon, removing the vote to abandon option and going with the lockout idea is also unfairly punishing to pick-up groups who just can't manage the teamwork or competence necessary to complete dungeons and raids, the fact that tougher raids like Final Coil aren't immediately added to the Duty Finder from the get-go can be thought of as something of a skill/teamwork check, and while the inclusion of more randomized mechanics would make things more challenging, it would be doing so in the worst possible fashion.

Well, i think you just want the game as it is, so you know everything like proofreading my old post for perfection, no new ideas at all.

Someone trying to help deciphering an incomprehensible rant and get flamed over it.

Calm the heck down and stop being so defensive and angry.

Party Finder would be left the same, I am only refering to Duty finder. Also why would radomized fights be bad?

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Originally Posted by Mastanight

Party Finder would be left the same, I am only refering to Duty finder. Also why would radomized fights be bad?

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Dictionary.com
google translate.com

Use it.

Also when you type if you see a red line underneath the text that means the word is incorrect use the right button on your mouse and fix it.

A randomized fight would not be able to be planned for... Imagine if Titan Ex had randomized mechanics doing exactly what he does now except you don't have any way to predict what will happen!

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Originally Posted by Mastanight

Well, i think you just want the game as it is, so you know everything like proofreading my old post for perfection, no new ideas at all.

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I offered a dissenting opinion and explained my reasoning. Discussions tend to work in this sort of fashion.

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Originally Posted by Chihaya

Someone trying to help deciphering an incomprehensible rant and get flamed over it.

Calm the heck down and stop being so defensive and angry.

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I know! I keep reading through this and all I can think is: "This guy can't be for real...."

OP, you may want to try and "Masta" English before you get angry at the person that was trying to help by deciphering what you were attempting to say in the first place.

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Originally Posted by Kinkoz

I offered a dissenting opinion and explained my reasoning. Discussions tend to work in this sort of fashion.

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I agree, I'm only trying to give ideas to help not make the game worse.

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Originally Posted by Mastanight

Party Finder would be left the same, I am only refering to Duty finder. Also why would radomized fights be bad?

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How do Party Finder parties tend to access dungeons and trials? Perhaps, by Duty Finder?

And difficulty in video games can be handled in a good way or a bad way. A good way involves losing due to one's own lack of skill or lack of knowledge, the fault is entirely on the player. A bad way involves losing just because the game decided that it wanted you to lose, thus making the circumstances beyond your control as a player. Randomized mechanics have a tendency to play more on the bad way of handling difficulty, so it isn't ideal to pursue. No one likes to lose because the game decided to cheat, after all.

At a quick glance, things that stood out to me that made the original post haphazard and confusing.

1) The title, Mastapiece, does not really have anything to do with the post itself and provides no initial context for people reading the post for the first time.
2) You immediately went into a stream of consciousness of proposed solutions without first, or really ever, going into what the perceived problems were that would be solved by your solutions. Again, its a context thing. By first talking about the problem, context is provided for the solution.
3). There was a lot of usage of nebulous pronouns, without a lot of clarification on what those pronouns were meant to be or represent. The intent of them could be guessed, but when so many are used in repetition, it quickly becomes confusing as to who or what you are referring to.

As for people pointing out the grammatical weak points of your post, try not to take it too harshly, unless they are directly and clearly insulting you.
In order to give a clear and understandable proposal or topic of discussion, they must be presented in a clear and understandable manner, otherwise people may not get the points you are trying to make.
Also, how an idea is presented greatly affects how the idea will be taken by people. If the time and consideration was not taken to properly present an idea, people tend to assume that the same treatment was given to the idea itself and will often not take it as seriously.

As for the ideas presented, for the most part I agree with the points and opinions of some of the other posters, that the ideas you proposed would actually cause more problems than what it would potentially fix.

its spelled Masterpiece

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Originally Posted by Mastanight

I wrote according to the space available for 1 post

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If 1k letters isnt enough, just post with "please wait, preparing the post" and then edit it.
Editing a post allows you to limitbreak through the 1k words cap.

Ok, I guess people are not concerned with ideas that would help the game just sitting here looking for typing errors, maybe because it's only looking at something already there just like the fights on you tube. Its to hard to comment about the idea, just the not perfect writting that makes no difference because it was understandable in the first place.

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Originally Posted by Mastanight

Ok, I guess people are not concerned with ideas that would help the game just sitting here looking for typing errors, maybe because it's only looking at something already there just like the fights on you tube. Its to hard to comment about the idea, just the not perfect writting that makes no difference because it was understandable in the first place.

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Maybe to you, not to everyone else bar a couple that where able to translate that nonsensical gibberish. Also your pooints were countered as not improving the game but diiminishing it. Not to mention they are adding some fights with minor random elements, last boss in Stone Vigil plus last phase of turn 10 for examples.

Too much randomness can turn a fight into impossible, or overly easy depending on the roll of the dice. Do you really want to go into a fight that you were able to clear last week easily then it turn into nigh on impossible due to RNG? No-one would.

Coil straight into DF. Coil goes into DF when it is no longer bleeding edge, when it gets nerfed not when it is at full difficulty. Also the reason it is behind lockouts is to prolong the content. Putting it in DF means no lockout, cool, farm the first one for all relevant drops, done, now to the second turn etc. What shall they do the following? Oh right, read the forums about players complaing it is too hard and should be nerfed as they are still doing about first and second coil which is already nerfed, echod and higher ilvl gear available than what it drops making it even less challenging.

Bad ideas are bad, and confusing when written in such a nonsensical manner.

In before: English is not my first language, it's my third :)

Masta!
Masta!
Masta of puppets you're pulling my strings!

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Originally Posted by Kinkoz

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You I undstood but the OP almost made my brain explode.

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Originally Posted by Mastanight

Snip.

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It's not that they are not concerned, rather, your post is just rather confusing and difficult to comprehend.

Anyway, reducing queue times is difficult. Not everyone wants to play as a tank or healer. Removing vote abandon is a bad idea as well. It already has a timer to prevent abuse. So, adding a penalty for vote abandoning will cause queue times to increase which goes against your initial proposal.

The coils are not immediately added to the DF because of the weekly lockout. This is to prevent players from blowing through content and overgearing just as the patch goes live.

As for the random boss fights, they can be interesting. However, let me remind you that although Titan was a completely scripted fight, players still had trouble clearing it. A completely randomized fight would just end up as a battle of who gets the best rng making it impossible in some scenarios or a face roll in others.

I originally meant to shorten the time frame of the fight, not the queue times. Vote abdoned would not be needed because the time frame would be shorter and the battle would end quicker. Players travel through coil and overgear quickly even with the weekly lockout. Unless you have a static, these fights seem impossible or take forever to form in party finder. Random fights would be more challenging at the start and have a longer replay value because they would be unmemorable.

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Originally Posted by Mastanight

I originally meant to shorten the time frame of the fight, not the queue times. Vote abdoned would not be needed because the time frame would be shorter and the battle would end quicker.

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Trials and raids that last longer give the developers the ability to design many unique mechanics. Reducing that will limit the amount of mechanics the developers are able to put in making the fights watered down. They would be comparable to dungeon mini-bosses! :confused:

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Originally Posted by Mastanight

Players travel through coil and overgear quickly even with the weekly lockout.

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Players would be able to burn content a lot more faster than with the lockout. The lockouts are there to prevent players from burning through content faster than the developers can push out content by limiting them to the previous tier tomestone and/or raid gear for the while. The coil lockouts and weekly tome caps are prime examples to this. Players do not overgear as quickly with the weekly lockout being enforced.

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Originally Posted by Mastanight

Unless you have a static, these fights seem impossible or take forever to form in party finder.

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Oh, so that's your motive. :p

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Originally Posted by Mastanight

Random fights would be more challenging at the start and have a longer replay value because they would be unmemorable.

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I'll repeat what I said earlier; "A completely randomized fight would just end up as a battle of who gets the best rng making it impossible in some scenarios and a face roll in others."

Ok, I think there is some misunderstanding of what I'm talking about in this article? When I say shorten battles, I mean just enough time for 3 attempts, because everyone quits if the battle is not won and requeue's. Also when the time frame given is 60-120 minutes, I doubt any DF party ever stays that long together. If DF was shorter time frames, vote abdoned that was usually used to kick people for no reason would be not needed. As far as coil, maybe if there were actually more challenges like random mechanics instead of same old routine everytime, players would not have such an easy time burning through them, right? Weekly lockouts probably would not be needed either. Why is DF there at all if its not used for what is most wanted to do like coil? Why would I want to wait 3 hours just to try once or twice for people to quit?

No DRG for party, camp spot site with 30 dmg, but is it for 20 like 30 dmg when you no hit be it for dd, for 30 dmg instead? or half is 10 for 20 dmg?

I really didn't want to enter this topic, I don't know what I am getting into LOL

Anywho, for the "random mechanics in fights is a terrible idea" argument, I have to counter with saying if it is done properly it is great. And a lot of games do do this already. And in my opinion it makes things way more interesting. This isn't to say it is absolutely random and you don't know what the crap you are doing! You still have mechanics that you know about, it's just not absolutely scripted. I'm not trying to say there is no challenge in the fights we have. But to me, it's not as exciting to know exactly what/when/where/how something is going to happen. "At X%, Boss will cast Y and perform Z every 5 seconds and move in this exact order." That can be fine and dandy, but it is more exciting to me if your situation is, "Boss performs attacks A, B, and C. A is used at 60% frequency, B is 30%, C 10%." You would then have tiers of the fight where frequency is altered, and attacks shuffled and introduced -- things can be altered via fight style and DPS levels and anything dynamic like that. It needs to be designed well, but games I have enjoyed very much in the past tend to lean by that model. You still need to be prepared for a fight and the events that happen but there is a chance of it being different every time. It's more like an actual adventure. I'm not saying make it random to the point where RNG makes the fight impossible to win; again, good design is golden. Random and RNG really should not be such a taboo!

That was very long winded :( I did see a poster mention that there was a small amount of "randomness" coming, which is possibly along the lines of what I was talking about, but I don't know much specifics! I haven't been able to keep up with development info recently due to life qq

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Originally Posted by Mastanight

Also when the time frame given is 60-120 minutes, I doubt any DF party ever stays that long together. If DF was shorter time frames, vote abdoned that was usually used to kick people for no reason would be not needed.

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Speaking strictly empirically, just because it has been your experience that groups will enter a duty, wipe a couple times, then quit, doesn't mean that this is what happens to everyone and the entire system should be changed to accommodate those who would rather give up on a group and requeue instead of learning from their mistakes and completing the duty successfully. That is why there is ample time given for every duty. Perhaps when you raid more you'll see that the amount of time given is useful, even if you have a pre-made group.

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Originally Posted by Mastanight

When I say shorten battles, I mean just enough time for 3 attempts, because everyone quits if the battle is not won and requeue's. Also when the time frame given is 60-120 minutes, I doubt any DF party ever stays that long together. If DF was shorter time frames, vote abdoned that was usually used to kick people for no reason would be not needed.

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So basically, you want to completely nerf every single trial and raid in this game to the ground. Am I understanding this right?

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Originally Posted by Nepenthe

Anywho, for the "random mechanics in fights is a terrible idea" argument, I have to counter with saying if it is done properly it is great. And a lot of games do do this already.

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Oh, don't misunderstand. I was talking about completely randomized fights. The first two turns of the Final Coil are great examples of fights that are somewhat randomized fights that are done right. Specifically their respective final phases.