You want me to do WHAT? Watch a VIDEO of the fight first?!

Sure thing! Knowledge is power after all. I may pay to play the game, but so do the other 3/7/23 people in my group. My personal fun is no better than that of someone else, and my fun shouldn't come at the expense of the group. If I really want to not watch a video, I will simply make my own group or join one with lesser requirements.

I understand the enjoyment of wanting to do something 'blind' but you need to outplay hardcore gamers to get to something first before documentation is made. Once documentation is out there, expectations are you will educate yourself first before joining the content. Frankly I play this game to enjoy all the content at my own pace and don't want to have to rush through stories and side stuff just to get to something first so I've made friends who have agreed they want to try going into 3.0 content blind even if there is documentation out there already and I really feel this is the best way to go about it. Instead of forcing others to accept your ideas of 'fun', find others who share the same idea of fun. MMORPG - Massive MULTIPLAYER ONLINE. It isn't a single player game where you only need to focus on your own personal enjoyment. Go out there, socialize and meet people who you can do stuff together with the way you want to play.

I agree with the premise but only because it really gets ridiculous that some people can't explain certain fights. I mean it's understandable for Titan EX and stuff as bad as that, but Garuda EX is really not that bad nor hard to explain.

Guess what you use the Duty finder you can't force or expect anything. People will use it who want to go blind and people will use it and expect speed-runs.

All parties more often than not turn out hillariously dissapointed. Make your own groups if you want to set your own rules.

People make guides for a reason.

So long as you can pick up stuff than it's fine to go in blind using DF, people do it all the time. If you don't want people complaining and abandoning whatever you're doing because you're going in blind than make a group with friends/fc or other fellow people who want to learn as well.

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Originally Posted by Elusana_Celah

I've made friends who have agreed they want to try going into 3.0 content blind even if there is documentation out there already and I really feel this is the best way to go about it. Instead of forcing others to accept your ideas of 'fun', find others who share the same idea of fun.

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What we are doing already with fcob in our group - and did it with all the dungeons as well. And day one wod 24 man premade alliance going in blind - that was fun to put together.

My reaction is pretty much always the same. If it's current content (I don't keep up with Coils as they come out), I won't watch a video. If it's something older, I will, but I won't force others to do it.

EXs and Coils are the only things I watch videos for, and that's only because I don't want to waste half an hour of my group's time because I didn't watch a ten minute video.

Learned Shiva "blind" learning FCOB "blind" even left a progressive group for that as I really want experience it the way it was meant.
Point is though--- you want to learn blind get other 3/7/23 people that are on same base else its a spoil session. We have a blind runner static (8 man as common) with a few helpers that jump in and respect our ways (funny that ppl with T13 kill begin to understand T10 mechanics better when with us... i laughed a lil XD ) For dungeons same people of static and friends no fight explainations... even if someone ran something before... ignore mechanic till others figured out :D
Harder was to organize a full blind alliance... we got to dragon on first try in then some people had to leave and as premades cannot get replacers we stopped there. So we ended up to have a second half spoiled go (some even had finished and explained a bit too much :( ) but still learning a fight guideless is absolutely worth it :D

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Originally Posted by Werhusky

I really want experience it the way it was meant.

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I question this, frankly. I think they purposefully design fights knowing that we'll be making videos and guides to them.
That's why a lot of fights have complex sequences and mechanics that you'd NEVER get the first time. They know we'll share info almost instantly, so they design it so it's at least challenging WITH foreknowledge of the fight.
But this logic only seems to apply to the Coils and EX primals, where unusual mechanics are employed that you'd never figure out without running it dozens of times.
But when it comes to dungeons, HM trials, and the towers, going it blind is pretty fun and seems to be the intention.
And as I brought up before, a lot of people simply don't have that kind of time.

If the PF states 'must have seen video' then don't join if you haven't. You should only join a PF if you meet the requirements or message the PF starter if you don't to work it out. It doesn't matter if you agree with it or not.

That being said, when I create a learning party or join one, I'll always give a short run down of the fight that starts with "Don't die, avoid death and don't get killed."
For the more complex patterns where a lot more is happening, yeah it might be easier to have seen a video. Doesn't necessarily mean people will understand it.
A clear and concise (which is what most videos lack) short run down of what to look out for, plus giving it one go just to experience the fight will help me more than watching a video. It's just how you process info in your noggin'.

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I hear and I forget. I see and I remember. I do and I understand. Confucius

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Originally Posted by Snootles

A clear and concise (which is what most videos lack) short run down of what to look out for, plus giving it one go just to experience the fight will help me more than watching a video.

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It also depends on the video. Some videos explain a 10 minute fight with a 30 minute explanation, while others just tank 10 to do so.

I will go through it blind. However, if I feel like I don't fully understand a mechanic even after practicing it, then I will watch a video or read a guide on that mechanic/phase.

Learning through experience is a thing, and personally, I find it more fun to do it that way. As long as I'm not holding my group back in any way, who cares how I learn the fight?

I don't really 'watch videos' or read guides for normal dungeons and 24-man.
I will, however, read a guide for coil or ex primals, because usually those tactics are extremely complicated to expect someone to type up in chat...

Though, about videos. I can't learn from them. I can watch one a million times and not get what to do. That's why it always bothers me when someone tells me to 'watch a video'.... no thanks. Especially for like, a dungeon. There's maybe two, three mechanics per boss fight. I don't need to take fifty thousand minutes to minimize my game on my crap computer, pull up the internet browser and read something when it could take you two minutes to tell me.

Then again, I personally learn best while doing. Videos really do nothing for me.

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Originally Posted by DragonSlayer45

I will go through it blind. However, if I feel like I don't understand a mechanic fully even after practicing it, then I will watch a video or read a guide on that mechanic/phase.

Learning through experience is a thing, and personally, I find it more fun to do it that way. As long as I'm not holding my group back in any way, who cares how I learn the fight?

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This is generally how I play, too. Have a go first, then get some better understanding now that I have some context to put things into.

When it comes to DF, there should be no expectations on any other player you are grouped with.

If you want people who do know the fight or who have seen videos/read guides first, then make a PF group stating that.

Likewise, if you want a group who all want to see the fight for themselves and work together on pushing through it, then make a PF group stating that.

PF is for setting up expectations and requirements. DF is a lucky bag.

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Originally Posted by kyuven

It also depends on the video. Some videos explain a 10 minute fight with a 30 minute explanation, while others just tank 10 to do so.

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That's pretty much the difference between something like Mr Happy or MTQcapture.

MTQcapture: The boss uses this move at this time, watch out for this and that, healers and tanks be prepared for this, and dps be prepared for that.

Mr Happy: The boss like and subscribe! herp uses this derp move like and subscribe! at this wumbo time, watch womp womp out like and subscribe! for this and that, like and subscribe! healers doge and tanks like and subscribe! be hadouken! prepared for like and subscribe! this, nyancat and like and subscribe! dps be yolo prepared for like and subscribe! that.

when it comes to blind runs i find it fun , i only go off the here says i have herd, did all the new experts blind, chrysalis blind, WOD blind, st blind, LOTA blind XD titan ex blind (that was fun) T5 blind T9 blind (at first o3o)
the amount of time i was muted on my FC's mumble when laughing to hard when doing things blind is TOO DAMN HIGH!

yes it is a MMO RPG but if your going blind you need to be a fast learner, so after one wipe thats it you know the fight, and be on your toes it really dose make the fight exciting, in my own personal opinion watching a video only works for T10 plus, but, truly going blind is the whole fun single player or multiplayer this is a game, and gas need some surprises to throw at you :D

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Originally Posted by DracotheDragon

when it comes to blind runs i find it fun , i only go off the here says i have herd, did all the new experts blind, chrysalis blind, WOD blind, st blind, LOTA blind XD titan ex blind (that was fun) T5 blind T9 blind (at first o3o)
the amount of time i was muted on my FC's mumble when laughing to hard when doing things blind is TOO DAMN HIGH!

yes it is a MMO RPG but if your going blind you need to be a fast learner, so after one wipe thats it you know the fight, and be on your toes it really dose make the fight exciting, in my own personal opinion watching a video only works for T10 plus, but, truly going blind is the whole fun single player or multiplayer this is a game, and gas need some surprises to throw at you :D

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Blind learning is great ^-^ We do it for T10 + you mention here as video would help... well we after 2 sessions at second set adds (no caster so gotta figure out how we burn best :P) and we watch vid/read up on those phases we feel to understand...We actually missed only 1 point and that is where the ominous tankswap happens (seen now in guide and someone mentioned it so we will try it but still) XD

Oh. It's this topic again.

If you are watching a video for any 4 or 24 man content then you are taking this wayyy to seriously. I reluctantly watch videos for ex primals and coil because it is necessary to not tear a group apart, but I hate the idea of it. The needing a guide for content just seems cheap and I can 100% see why people would be opposed to it, but that is the nature of this game unless you are after world firsts. Whats gets me is when people go into later stages of coil blind and expect to be catered to. There is no way they got through t5-9 blind, do you really expect things are going to change in later stages?

If its DF well you can't force anything and expecting people to us dumb.

But a party finder party van set w.e rules they want

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Originally Posted by Magis

If its DF well you can't force anything and expecting people to us dumb.

But a party finder party van set w.e rules they want

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Is* Can*. Is it possible to edit on mobile?

Is it bad that I laugh maniacally when I go into DF blind and say nothing about how I have no idea what's going on because I find it fun to experience stuff au naturale, even if I wipe or whatnot?

If it is, then same on you, cutting edge raiders. Wait till the vids are out.

Go in blind, go with friends! It's lots of fun. ^^
Go in the DF, expect anything... including people who give you grief for not knowing what you are doing.
If the PF says it's a farm party, don't sign up unless you know the fight already. ><
And, if it's an old fight but new to you, but you don't have people to go with, use the PF to make a learning party.

And, yes, we've seen this thread too much. >< I will ask again that SE includes some method of checking "watch CS" or "speedrun" in the DF since the PF is too limited (need more people than what is just available at that time on your server as well as the fact that the Party Finder is not explained to new players nor suggested over the DF for CS watching.)

I'm pretty amused of players that call themselves "veterans" and still expecting kill parties using DF. Call them "griefers".

Are we talking about DF or PF ?

I don't do anything via DF that requires any real knowledge, so it can be easily explained, the rest I do via PF.

When using PF though, unless someone specifically states that you don't need any knowledge of the fight, you are just going to waste people's time... And just as you don't want to waste time watching videos of fights, a lot of people don't want to waste time teaching a player and having multiple wipes because of him/her.

Why is it such a pain for some to just watch a video btw? If there are known tactics of a fight, I will always watch a video and read guides about the fight once or more depending on difficulty. If you do Coil, it's a must for most players, unless you're one of the hardcore statics that beat it first.

It's a bit funny how the idea of using a guide has changed over the years. Back in the day, admitting you used a strategy guide to beat something would have people demanding to turn in your gamer card. Nowadays, you NEED to read a guide just to get anywhere or do anything. Which makes me wonder....why not just spell out everything in the games if this is how guide use will be?

This is one of those times where the expectation is DF is *not* that they have watched videos. Because you can't enforce it. If you absolutely must have people who are experienced or watched the videos, make a PF group yourself.

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Originally Posted by kyuven

I question this, frankly. I think they purposefully design fights knowing that we'll be making videos and guides to them.

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I question this myself considering the people that made the videos or guides did not have a video, or did they? The content was meant to be experienced by the individual however they see fit and a video is not required to clear anything in game or SE would have put them out themselves.

Not sure why people say "watch a video" and then expect people to understand what to expect. You learn thru practice, not by watching videos.

A video can help you prepare for a fight perhaps, but it can't teach you. I would prefer written guides that explain everything in detail, so I can quickly skip to the section I need to know. Unfortunately these guides don't really exist.

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Originally Posted by Laraul

Not sure why people say "watch a video" and then expect people to understand what to expect. You learn thru practice, not by watching videos.

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This is just me personally: I just get a little tired of people saying "I'm new, what do I do?"
I still give tips/advice but it's growing tiresome...
Why ask us when you have people making videos just for your questions. Yes, learning through actual
experience is the best, but it DOES help if you watch a video for a general idea.
That said, I won't force anyone to do anything or get angry, I just think people should do it instead
of wanting us to explain every single mechanic from scratch. Still, at the end of the day
going in and actually giving it a round is the best thing to do.

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Originally Posted by Laraul

I would prefer written guides that explain everything in detail, so I can quickly skip to the section I need to know. Unfortunately these guides don't really exist.

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I've seen written guides, they exist. I use both but I like to visually see what's going on.
http://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/wi...oil_of_Bahamut
Unfortunately, FCOB has none written as of yet but the others do.

One more thought on this. Videos and guides are fine but most people want you to watch them so they don't have to explain. Just another way to promote anti-social behavior in a game that is supposed to be social. Honestly this game is not very social at all. You join a group and lucky if more than 2 people even great the group, I have 6 Linkshells and a Free Company and there is little to no conversations happening daily. MMO's have really gone down hill in the social aspect of things in my opinion. I remember (just an example) my FFXI days and how fun that game was, always chat going on in the linkshell, tells or say, it was never really boring but to be honest this one kind of is and that's really sad....

I never watch videos or read guides. To me that's no different from reading a summary full of spoilers before watching a movie.

For everyone who suggests that PF is there for people who want a group of inexperienced players, there is the counter suggestion of PF also being there for people who don't want to deal with inexperience. DF is there for those who just want to get to doing stuff, leaving it up to random chance whether they'll be matched up with jerks or nice people, experienced or inexperienced ones, well-geared or crappily geared ones.

If you end up in a DF party with inexperienced people, you have several options.

1.) Just go ahead and give it a try. It may work, it may not.
2.) Explain the fight, then give it a try.
3.) Leave and choose a 30 min penalty over being stuck in the duty perhaps wiping a few times.
4.) Stick it out a while and hope for a Vote Abandon to go through, if things don't work out.

If none of these options are acceptable to you, don't use DF.

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Originally Posted by dice137

Oh. It's this topic again.

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Oh it's this reply again.

I used to watch videos of Primal fights back when I was a main healer. Mainly because I wanted to expect certain mechanics or know what to dodge because it was my responsibility to keep the rest of the party alive - but I wouldn't mind if the rest wanted to go in blind.

Now I don't. I stopped playing the week second coil came out and recently started playing again about a month ago - since I got back i've been catching up on all the content and going in as blind MT.

It's a lot more fun, theres less pressure and more of a positive "lets work this out" atmosphere with the people I play with. Beat most of the new content with less than 2-3 tries (if that) so far, can't wait to get to FCoB so we can work out something challenging again like we did back in the days of i70 Darklight VS Giant snakes and ADS systems.

people wants you to watch NOT A video but MANY videos so that you will be aware of the latest strategies, how can someone know of the latest strategy available on a given run when said person has never done it before ? I wonder..ohh wait true I could run in Uldah and shout out the question ? right ?

I read the guide but unfortunately, sinec I have never done it I forget about it swiftly. On the contrary, if I run it fail it a few times, and read a guide afterwards I will keep it in mind. Each to their own I suppose

Mei

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Originally Posted by Snootles

For the more complex patterns where a lot more is happening, yeah it might be easier to have seen a video. Doesn't necessarily mean people will understand it.
A clear and concise (which is what most videos lack) short run down of what to look out for, plus giving it one go just to experience the fight will help me more than watching a video. It's just how you process info in your noggin'.

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You forgot to add the "for me" to the end of this. Because this is not at all universal. I've literally watched people view a video and one shot the fight afterwards. So it's not one size fits all. Some people can learn everything from the video alone. Assuming that people learn better from just doing is just that. An assumption. A biased one at that.

I study all fights int he game,Yes even coil fights (I'm a known coil hater). I like to go into fights with the best chances of winning. However, I never feel other players should study or watch vids to join my self-made PFs. I' ve been know to take noobs into coils and clear them, while teaching the fights to along the way. It all comes down to "It's your game, Play it your way"

It is really a function of knowing who you are. If you have a steep learning curve, are at the minimum level of gear, have a slow computer or a poor connection. You know if your groups tend to have a lot of wipes. I personally feel you should do whatever is necessary to make yourself less of a burden on others. If that is watching videos, so be it, if that is over-gearing do that. Just do something to show you care about the experience of others you group with...You don't want to watch a video, over-gear ask questions, be very informed and knowledgeable of your job. be honest, "I have not watched video but I follow directions well and don't make the same mistake twice" Knowing you don't perform well, doing nothing about it and telling no one anything is crappy to do to other people. If you are honest with me, I will explain things, be patient AND stand up to anyone who bullies you. Bristle at instructions and advice when you cause us to wipe, I would rather you left.

I never stepped in to an end game fight without watching a video first. And I didn't tank anything unless I felt experienced in the dungeon or watched a video on it. What's annoying is the people who don't want to watch a video on something yet want you to give a full explanation of the dungeon.

If I'm doing Duty Finder content and it's my first time, I'm going to at least read up on boss mechanics, because I'm a healer and every time I die it's a big ol' waste of time for everyone who's already done the content. If someone joins blind, I'd rather they at least ask for the big things to watch out for.

If you want to go in blind, ask you friends if they'd like to premade or something. Dragging things out for three strangers while you wipe over and over is pretty impolite.
(This goes less for DPSes, who can usually die and not start the whole thing over.)

People tend to look up an explanation video, end up with a MrSmiley one, and go OH GOD THAT'S 20 MINUTES I AIN'T GOT TIME FOR THAT and run off, even though the actual mechanics tend to take up like six minutes, and the rest is uncut footage of a clear with a play-by-play.

I do like MTQ's videos as well, if only because she tends to have a heavy bias for tank perspective and I like to know what the tank has to watch out for when I'm healing. Generally, healing anyone else can be done entirely on reaction.