WHM dps in T10

Hello!

I am currently learning t10 (got to phase 5, though not many times). My healing is okih for now, I think, and because there isn't a lot of healing to do in general, I started to dps here and there. I am running a bit into a mana problem though: I usually turn cleric stance on after the first 2 adds have been killed, and just dps away, but I start p3 with 50% of my mana.

Does a whm dps make any kind of difference or is it so irrelevant that I should just wait for my MP to regen after adds are killed? And if it does make a difference, does anyone have any tips on how to conserve MP and dps? I usually keep regen on the tank and throw Medica II for Heat Lightning. I am trying to time cure III for Wild Charge because sometimes my health especially gets quite low (below 1k) and I am afraid I'll die when the arena closes in if I rely on Medica II's ticks only, but a medica II and cure III is a massive drain on my MP and I'm not sure I could keep it up for p5 too.

TBH no , especially at this point in FcOB you're learning but I'm sure your group is at least all i120+ and if your SCH is the average SCH then DoTs should be up pretty much 75-85% of the time unless they're handling Prey and Double Prey.

Also add phase too , I tend to bane but only after Double Prey has come and gone, but WHM should probably DPS when boss is charging for phase transition as it does help a TAD bit seeing as your dots carry over, as you can see you shouldn't be DPSing a whole lot due to Mana consumption and you don't want the 20% Bard loss DPS considering the output damage he would be doing + potential foes would out weigh anything you're doing.....

WHM gets a lot of PIE throughout FcOB and gearing so as your group progresses dps should pose no problem but till then 7/8 people hammering away should be fine ....stick to healing and get your clear...

If your group can kill the boss without running in to DPS trouble then you shouldn't feel compelled to DPS as a WHM when you are having MP issue.

Medica 2 is not necessary in T10, even though I mainly use it when switching out of each add phase. This is because the damage in T10 is not raid wide other than when dealing with specifics mechanics.

You do not need to use Medica to top every ones HP after Heat Lightning. If you are hit by Heat Lightning then you will not be dealing with Tether or Wild Charge. Also no one should be clipped by Heat Lightning. Also you'll have everyone spread out in T10 and when not dealing with Critical Rip or Prey you'll be able to use Cure or Regen to top people off. The SCH fairy is very effective in topping everyone off.

Avoid using Cure 3. It is very expensive and there are a handful of situations where it is effective. Instead use Medica and then use Cure and Regen to top people off.

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Originally Posted by firstsin

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Everything this^^.

Just stick to Aero, Aero II, and Fluid Aura until you're comfortable with your MP. If your SCH is DPSing, before and after add phases are pretty much the only times you get time to chain cast Stone II anyways.

I agree with the posters saying that you shouldn't worry much about it while learning. That being said, I have a few times where i like to squeeze in some dps cause i'm always finishing the fight with SOOoooo much mana :/ I'm sure there are lots of opinions and different ways to squeeze in dps and make healing more efficient, but here are somethings that really work for me!:

P1: aero aero II fluid aura after the first critical rip. Only heal MT when necessary. let fairy handle damage form the first wild charge.
First adds: Divine seal regen both tanks, eye for an eye my tank, virus 1 add, stoneskin my prey target. Then refresh regen and put up a medica II. This is usually where i use my first Shroud HoT's + fairy are usually enough for our tanks, so i'm able to dps the adds on my side for the majority of this phase (occasionally coming out for a cure) Dps during electro charge.
P2: Cure III wild charges (maybe overkill, but it's nice to just have the damage healed and done with). Heal MT and deal with critical rip. Fluid aura when i can. Generally I get a lot of MP back in this phase.
Second adds: pretty much the same as the first after our tanks pick up the extra son and daughter. Usually get another shroud during this phase.
Last phase: I usually hit this phase with about 80% mana, and get another shroud during it. Our Sch uses selene for this fight and spends a lot of time in cleric stance, so this is the time I keep medica 2 up for the majority of the time. Again, could be overkill, but imo it can make the random elements of this phase that much easier. Cure III on Wild charges. Deal w/ critical rip.

sounds like your super close tho. you got this! =D

Honestly, a whm shouldn't have to dps. If you hit enrage its the dps fault.

A few tips.

When charge happens only use cure 3 if its highlighted, your in the middle of the group during charge and cast it a second just after the boss cast bar begins for the charge. (use medica instead if cure 3 isn't highlighted,) this will give you time to focus on putting a stoneskin up for crit rip or avoiding a tail swipe after charge without worrying about peoples health as much.

Only use medica 2 at the end of add phases after burst and if needed during last phase, do not use it right before adds or you will pull them.

Co-ord with the other healer for eye for eye placement on both tanks during adds and slap a regen on them both so you can deal with prey. (Presence of mind is great here for quickly stoneskinning during double prey)

If everyone is topped up, don't be afraid to throw a stone skin during single preys, this may just a save the party from a SCH error. (remember to be quick, you got 6 seconds and stoneskin cast is just under 3)

As a WHM, your MP is so precious that you really should not be spending any of it for DPS purposes unless you absolutely know you will still have enough MP to be able to heal effectively. DPS for you is not worth the tradeoff of being low on MP.

In FCoB groups, WHM is rarely every expected to do any DPS to to their already poor MP management. Really only SCH should be doing any DPS as a healer.

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Originally Posted by Talia_Hailwind

Honestly, a whm shouldn't have to dps. If you hit enrage its the dps fault.
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Even if we assume it's the dps fault, and lets face it they haven't killed t10 by now they don't have the spare time, are new, or are bad. That doesn't mean you cant add a minimal amount of dps that can push the group from a wipe to a kill.

Healers who don't even experiment with pushing out some damage while managing heals/mana issues during progression are not even trying.
It would be like dps who sit in cleaves, that can be healed through, because reducing the work of healers is not his job.

WHM's dps is kind of inconsequential in T10. Also, during learning, people get more unnecessary damages so healers have to heal more => more mana usage during learning stage. But once your statics have things down, you may find yourself w/ lots of mana.

P.S. B/c I am epic bored after killing adds and everyone's dps the boss... I also dps the boss. And b/c NQ mind potions r epic cheap... i pop one of those to increased mind which translates to more INT w/ CS. Still.. my dps is insignificant and my static peeps giggle as they see my marginal increase of dps... I am just having fun. :-P

The only DPS I've ever absolutely had to do was helping push the phase shift after adds die, Potent Poison Potions during the first days of being on the fringe with gear as a team, and remembering to pop Fluid Aura whenever it's off cooldown (and whenever mechanics don't have positioning as a worry) on Imdugud himself. I haven't tested and won't test if the sons and daughters can be pushed by it because fucking up positions sucks.
For the most part T10 can be covered almost purely by the WHM of the group. My group's SCH's speedier mitigation to deal with Prey, emergency Lustrates, and Wild Charge recoveries are typically the only heals required. That's a LOT of downtime to let dps instead.

I'm just not sure i can agree with ppl saying that whm dps is completely insignificant. I mean, it's totally piddly. That's for sure. With all the misses it doesn't add up to much. BUT! Before my group killed T10 for the first time, we had several 1% wipes. Maybe if I'd pushed a little harder on adds, or during P1, we would've killed it sooner. Likewise, when we had our first T11 kill, it was very messy. Our dps were all dead but 1, boss was at 1%. We were watching the enrage nerve cloud being cast. I started attacking w/ stone II. Battle log showed me killing it with fluid aura during the nervecloud animation. I parsed at something like 2.17 dps. xD Yay for first kills!

I don't know, it both is and isn't insignificant imo. If i had just already decided my dps was insignificant and tried to raise another dead dps with the last of my mana maybe we wouldn't have killed T11 for the first time that night. Who knows? Just follow the play style that you and/or your static is most comfortable with, but don't be afraid to try new things. Some may not work for you, but some might.

Well that's insignificant or significant depending on how much your are dpsing... In T13 (still progressing) I'm handling the healing part of P1/P2 alone and dpsing as soon as possible. I add ~30dps without any accuracy added, which is a total ~ 200 dps with the sch.

Even if you aren't in the need to push phase / to avoid the enrage (meaning you have good dps) you can and should dps when it's safe to do so. That's better than doing nothing and some healers should learn to use their MP from time to time instead of constantly sitting at full MP or doing all they can to keep a large amount of MP by the end of the fight because they are afraid low MP at the end of the fight = bad MP mamangement / bad healers, maybe they got told how MP is important and now they only focus on that... For sure you have to know when you will need these MP points but in term of frequence, most of the fight is idle time / not a big deal in comparaison to the burst MP moments.

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Originally Posted by Laesha

we had several 1% wipes.

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Very much this. I've watched the difference between a wipe and a clear come down to the equivalent of a ticking DoT more than once during progression.

This is part of why I maintain that DPS is absolutely a shared responsibility amongst party members. If the WHM can safely contribute any DPS in a fight, better that they do that than sit on their MP.

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Originally Posted by Cynfael

Very much this. I've watched the difference between a wipe and a clear come down to the equivalent of a ticking DoT more than once during progression.

This is part of why I maintain that DPS is absolutely a shared responsibility amongst party members. If the WHM can safely contribute any DPS in a fight, better that they do that than sit on their MP.

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Couldn't agree more. It is a shared responsibility by every role, if the window is there to do it by all means help push into the loot phase.

It's the scholar's job to DPS in t10 as much as he or she can.

My white mage partner's dps in my static usually goes between zero and five, let the scholar do deeps, they have the mana to support it. White mage should only do it if they are 100% sure it will not hurt their mana down the line.

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

It's the scholar's job to DPS in t10 as much as he or she can.

My white mage partner's dps in my static usually goes between zero and five, let the scholar do deeps, they have the mana to support it. White mage should only do it if they are 100% sure it will not hurt their mana down the line.

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My WHM partner finishes T10 with quite a bit of gas in the tank after having done all P1 Preys and having gone all-out with Stone spam at the end of each add phase, and he's not running some kind of max Piety setup. Obviously WHMs have to be mindful of their GCDs when DPSing, but MP should not be a huge issue.

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Originally Posted by Cynfael

My WHM partner finishes T10 with quite a bit of gas in the tank after having done all P1 Preys and having gone all-out with Stone spam at the end of each add phase, and he's not running some kind of max Piety setup. Obviously WHMs have to be mindful of their GCDs when DPSing, but MP should not be a huge issue.

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If you can get away with it, more dps doesn't hurt by any means.

On each add phase, I typically Stoneskin both tanks > Regen both tanks > Medica II > Shroud of Saints > then DPS. Works out fine for our group. I don't need to do it anymore, but I'm just used to doing it.