Since 2.5 no one seems to do PVP anymore

I'm curious as to why.

What is everyone doing instead?
We even have a Roulette for it now, and instead match making being faster, it's takes well over a few hours. That's more than a bit much!

Where is everyone?

Slaughter completely put me off PvP.

I'll maybe go back to Secure if I can queue and play Triple Triad at the same time, but I'm doubtful I'll touch the Roulette given how utterly awful Slaughter sounds and seemingly is. I'll fully admit I haven't really given it a proper try, but what I've heard about it just put me off that much. Throw in Hunt style random NM placement with actual rewards to break people up off mid and encourage scouting and I'd perhaps love the event. Don't mind PvE elements in Frontlines, but I hate how they script it. Never liked that in Secure, and it really shows its flaws in Slaughter imo. PvP is at its best when it isn't scripted, stop doing that SE...

Really though, if anything I guess it's the developers who've put me off PvP. They do not seem to give a crap about it. The PvP community in this game is drip fed content at a pathetic rate and the developers seem more intent on releasing new PvP content than actually refining what they've already released. See: Wolves Den. When the new content they're pushing out instead of improving old content in Slaughter? Yeah, I'm sick of what the developers are doing with PvP in this game. Call me in 5.4 when they might actually get around to introducing tournaments and the likes.

I'm strictly PVE. I don't like how competitive and serious people get in PVP. Total put off to me. Plus I just suck at PVP anyways so you wouldn't want me holding your team back :P

For me?

• Takes to long to get in.
• Favors specific setups.
• Developers seem OK with win-trading and other shady practices
• Due to the above doing anything properly takes forever for no reason
• Rewards are purely cosmetic for the most part
• Grand Company restrictions prevent me from queing with friends

I've never been a big fan of PVP in any game, while this is mostly a extent of this the entire implementation of the system screams of design failures the developers can't bring themselves to fix. I get the whole "Lore" aspect of the PVP but jesus it's so restricting when you have a allready small pool of players fragmented even further by a arbitrary system like this.


Christ XI did the whole PVP thing better and that's not funny. While it had the same national restriction stuff they at least had schedueled matches so the people interested in the content knew when to be around.

The only reason I ever do PVP was due to boredom or for nexus lights. Now my time is much better spent elsewhere. Maybe if ranking up just to be able to use the glamour gear didn't take 8 years to accomplish I might go back. Plus F that queue.

Just my reasons.

Because my server Maelstrom BLM's spam LB stack and it's kills any fun there is to be had.
No thanks...plus PvP in this game was never a strong suit.

I for one love that PvP is an afterthought allowing me to enjoy it casually whilst all efforts are made towards the PvE, QoL, and Vanity that matters. No really, tired of MMos being divided by PvP and PvE fanbases, it just makes it so half the fanbase is bitching guaranteed.

I actually liked fronlines (secure) before this patch queue was pretty reasonable (usually 15mins give or take) But with the introduction of Slaughter I only end up getting 24 man teams in secure...and that's just not fun.

Slaughter there just isn't much strategy. Just cometeor spam. As such I no longer do PvP myself. If only having personal limit breaks in secure was a thing...oh well

72-man slaughter is a bit hectic.
24-man slaughter is awesome.

24-man secure isn't too fun but 72-man secure is.

Wolves den is the best but those queues can be really atrocious and the 30 bracket seems to be the most populated which is a shame because it's not as fun as having all your skills available since you're level 30 not 50..

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Originally Posted by Jynx

For me?

• Takes to long to get in.
• Favors specific setups.
• Developers seem OK with win-trading and other shady practices
• Due to the above doing anything properly takes forever for no reason
• Rewards are purely cosmetic for the most part
• Grand Company restrictions prevent me from queing with friends

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this /10chars

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Originally Posted by Jynx

I get the whole "Lore" aspect of the PVP but jesus it's so restricting when you have a allready small pool of players fragmented even further by a arbitrary system like this.

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There is no "Lore" reason for the draconian Grand Company restriction.

I'm usually the first person to say I love the Grand Company aspect of PvP, but there is absolutely no reason they couldn't have implemented a Mercenary system by now... Let people who don't care queue as a Mercenary and have them dropped in any Grand Company. Have parties queue up as the leaders Grand Company. All they need to do is justify it in "Lore" by saying its to ensure fair and faster matches. Done.

Still the same Maelstrong verses Win Adder atmosphere with less of the queue problems. People can hate on the "Maelstrong" stuff all they like, but it makes PvP a lot more welcoming if you're automatically part of a static team, rather than it just being the sopro statics verses losers.

There wasn't already that many people doing PVP, and now with Slaughter, that small group got fragmented into two queues. Never mind that Slaughter is a complete mess in a 72-man queue.


Neutering healers completely didn't help matters much for me since I prefer support roles in PVP.

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Originally Posted by Kaisha

There wasn't already that many people doing PVP, and now with Slaughter, that small group got fragmented into two queues. Never mind that Slaughter is a complete mess in a 72-man queue.


Neutering healers completely didn't help matters much for me since I prefer support roles in PVP.

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It's more than 2 queues

You have people trying to queue secure, slaughter, then wolves den(matched) and then non-premade wolves den, also synced and unsynced wolves den, AND then the level 40 and 30 wolves den.

Did 85 games last week, pvp been busy on my data center

I find my queues aren't horribly long or that different from before patch 2.5. If anything they are a bit better. On off time though its usually 24 man pvp as opposed to 72, then the queues are 30 mins at least.

Not even the prospect of an ADS mount could get me into this game's PvP. It's too much of a mess imo.

- I don't like slaughter mode and the only queues I get are for slaughter.
- Queues take too long.
- The grind for vanity is too long.
- Matching is unbalanced (I often get groups like 6 tank, 2 dps)
- PS3 has trouble loading the mid when 72 people are there (I'm soon upgrading to PS4)
- PvP gear is not BiS in PvP (even in cases where you have an i70 +10 morale, crit/dtr piece in Frontline and you're synced to i80, demon gear gives better stats for some reason)
- Adder and Flames collude against Maelstrom and Maelstrom usually loses (in my experience)

I'm not sure why SE has pushed this GC system. It should have been obvious from the start it would be unbalanced. Like how many people just went with the GC of the city they started with, for example? Well wouldn't that mean that Maelstrom has the most WAR, SCH, SMN (now NIN) queuing up? Similarly Adder would have the largest share of DRG, BRD, and WHM and Flames would have all the BLM in the world...

I have no idea if the above theory is true or not. SE probably has data of who is queuing as what. Maybe there is no problem. All I know is my Maelstrom groups are very frequently half or more tanks. And SE has not given tanks much ability to be tanks in PvP.

Slaughter 24 player is fun 72 player Slaughter BLM yeah..... spam LB working as intended??? or dev didn't test 72 man epic fail Dev and yoshida

I found it fun somewhat when it first came out, then people got overgeared or pre-made pts kicked my ass constantly. It just seems to not be fair and people never communicate well when I join in DF.

The GC restriction is a terrible design decision and is primarily responsible for holding PVP down in this game. Everything that can be said about this awful decision, has been said now for months. SE has shown they are not listening / do not care. That stupid restriction is here to stay and because of it, PVP will continue to suffer.

Don't get me wrong: there are PLENTY of other problems with PVP in this game. But unless the above issue is dealt with, it doesn't really matter what they do about the other issues. The mode will always be broken as long as that restriction exists.

Actually the GC restriction IS due to lore. The whole idea was that the matches were set up as a friendly manner for the city-states to battle over who gets to claim the territory the matches take place on for the purpose of researching the Allagan Ruins and to build settlements for the refugees filling their particular city.

Honestly, the only way to logically alleviate that would be to make a separate mode to roll into that removes the GC restriction, but the worry then is it would remove any team dynamic and competitive streak as a result. One thing I noticed was that you start recognizing the players you team and build some relationships with them. Aether never had one GC just vastly outpower the others, either, making PVP much more interesting.

Also, I thought of this after making the thread, but PVP used to be one of the easiest routes for Tomes. Win or lose, you could still get a consistent stream of Soldiery and Poetics, and it was easy. Winning only aided how fast you could get your special PVP gear.

Even if the GC restrictions get lifted or worked around, it wouldn't improve the que times by a drastic amount.

Some people just don't like pvp, no matter how good it is. I'm not saying the pvp is fantastic, but even if it was this particular player base wouldn't warm up to it right away, not at all in some cases.

Most people who really enjoy pvp are playing something else. The pvp in this game would have to really WOW people to pull players from other games that are more popular for pvp. The only reason I play this a lot is because I can couch co-op with my wife. If it wasn't for that I wouldn't play nearly as much.

You really feel the linearity in this game. Whether it's pve or pvp. But, pvp isn't quite as linear in some ways.

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I don't know why I can only post 3 times a day but whatever.

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Originally Posted by Nalien

The issue with queues generally isn't finding enough people to play a match, during prime time there would certainly be enough across a data center. Typically either a Grand Company doesn't have enough (with only 7 Immortal Flames queuing, a match wont start until an 8th shows up) which drags down everyones queue time, or players are in a popular Grand Company and get stuck in queue limbo (30 Maelstrom queue, only 24 will get in a game, 6 will be left out). If you lessen the restriction it would help a lot more than you'd think. Well... If Slaughter hadn't turned so many away...

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I meant drastically, but I get what you're saying. I remember when the wolves den came out and it was busy as hell. That was to be expected. After a few weeks though, things slowed down a little and you started to see the same people more often.

ARR just does not have a player base with thick enough skin to develop an elaborate pvp scene. Pvp forces you outside of your comfort zone and that is the exact opposite of what people play this particular mmo for. Generally, people who enjoy pvp just enjoy pvp, even if it's a broken mess. As long as it's fun the mechanics are usually secondary.

Someone earlier hit the nail on the head for pvp in ARR. It needs more scripting, especially if SE is expecting this player base to pick it up regularly.

Ok I used to pvp pretty often before 2.5, but slaughter ruined it for me. Slaughter is just not very fun to play but it seems to get all the players. Secure only ever gets 24 person matches and that's just not so great.

So secure, became a pain to queue for and just not very satisfying when in just never gets a full game. To be honest, I just burn time with another game entirely instead these days.

its been that way b4 2.5 queue times for it in insanely long = = on average my wait time is 90mins + so kinda gave up on the mounts for nows til they do somethin to improve it :(

the problem is a bit of a vicious cycle i think. people were doing hunts so que times got longer, due to the que times getting longer people (like myself) can't be bothered to wait in 30+ minute ques, thus less people are queing and the times get longer.

When the fix gear/rank/cost so we don't have to spend 6 months or more to be able to get/use gear for glamour then I'll go back

For me, it's the hit-or-miss on the queues. Sometimes, its immediate or less than 5 mins (even when it says more than 30 minutes) - other times, it takes 45 minutes. I can take a chance queueing for PvP or I can instal-tank queue into a dungeon for light and a chance at dungeon atma. Also, those last two ponies I need for Kirin are tempting me....

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Originally Posted by Ametrine

Actually the GC restriction IS due to lore.

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Yes the restriction is there for Lore, but there is no reason there can't be Lore explaining Mercenary type system being added.

All they really need to do is make it an option but prioritize putting players in their own Grand Company if they're not needed in a different one. Done. The Company verses Company aspect isn't destroyed (and I still maintain that it should stay since they could do interesting things with it, similar to Conquest in XI, though I doubt they ever will) and queues are slightly improved. Best of both worlds.

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Originally Posted by Ametrine

Also, I thought of this after making the thread, but PVP used to be one of the easiest routes for Tomes. Win or lose, you could still get a consistent stream of Soldiery and Poetics, and it was easy. Winning only aided how fast you could get your special PVP gear.

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If you don't care about the gear (or already have what you want) Wolf Marks are great for Desynthesis as well, made plenty of Gil off that. It spat out Battlecraft and Fieldcraft III Demimateria, was great. I actually miss that source of Fieldcraft III, but screw Slaughter...

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Originally Posted by Stihllodeing

Even if the GC restrictions get lifted or worked around, it wouldn't improve the que times by a drastic amount.

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The issue with queues generally isn't finding enough people to play a match, during prime time there would certainly be enough across a data center. Typically either a Grand Company doesn't have enough (with only 7 Immortal Flames queuing, a match wont start until an 8th shows up) which drags down everyones queue time, or players are in a popular Grand Company and get stuck in queue limbo (30 Maelstrom queue, only 24 will get in a game, 6 will be left out). If you lessen the restriction it would help a lot more than you'd think. Well... If Slaughter hadn't turned so many away...

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Originally Posted by Ametrine

Aether never had one GC just vastly outpower the others, either, making PVP much more interesting.

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Maelstrom is a complete joke on Aether. Has been for a very long time now.

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...ekly/?sort=win

So what happens is everyone changes to whatever GC is perceived as being the best. In the Aether data center that is probably Adders. Meanwhile nobody in Maelstrom queues up because who wants to lose 9/10 matches? So on any given night the queues are probably:

5 Maestrom
35 Flames
147 Adder

Guess who ends up sitting around a VERY LONG TIME for a queue pop? If you answered "everybody" give yourself a gold star.

Many changes to Frontlines and Wolve's Den to come in Heavensward. Please look forward to it.

MMORPG.com interview with Naoki Yoshida on the Heavensward Expansion:

Naoki Yoshida: ... and with Heavensward, we’re going to have a new map for our Frontline with new rules as well.

After all that is implemented we’re going to work on the Wolves Den map, with the large scale PVP we’re trying to get as many people to come in contact with that type of content. A lot of Final Fantasy players have never played PVP or just hearing PVP makes them hesitate on trying to play so we’re trying to get as many people used to that type of content and once we have that in place, then we’ll expand on the Wolves Den so it’s a more intense PVP experience, where it runs in parallel to how the large scale and the more hardcore stuff develops, expands and progress in their own ways.

Continued:

MMORPG.com: That actually was my next question, what are your plans for the Wolves Den to make it a more interesting experience?

Naoki Yoshida: One of the reasons why we haven’t implemented many changes for the Wolves Den since 2.4, 2.5, and 3.0, is because as you have noticed it is more for the core players, who are very intense in their PVP. Frontlines just started as of 2.3, and people are getting interested in it, but when they hear that Wolves Den has been updated and they try to go and play it while still having just started out they’re literally going to be torn apart by these Wolves that are in the Wolves Den, and we don’t want people to get scared and stop playing the PVP content.

Continued:

Naoki Yoshida: So that’s why we wanted to focus more on the larger scale and expand on the Frontlines content, have people take their time and get used to the mechanics of it. Increase their skill level, so there isn’t such a gap between the general players versus the really hardcore players, and once we’ve seen that’s balanced out that’s when we’re going to transition.

We have our 4 player versus 4 player, but we’d like to expand that to 8 versus 8, add a new map, and in the future we’re hoping to have season matches, where we can do like a World Championship where people can compete for who is the strongest Free Company, or who can get the most points as well.

Source: http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/g...Expansion.html

I just started frontline after 2.5 (ads mount ftw) and my opinion so far:

24 ppl secure - boring as hell
72 ppl secure - never had it, but I never queue for secure since 24 secure is boring as hell
24 ppl slaughter - really fun
72 ppl slaughter - sometimes fun, sometimes not, depending on the mass of mages & cometeors :s

Queue times are insane. And, in my experience, half the people you play with just end up going AFK immediately for the points. Not fun at all.

I never had one beeing afk so far, you can still kickvote them

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Originally Posted by kpxmanifesto

Naoki Yoshida: ... and with Heavensward, we’re going to have a new map for our Frontline with new rules as well.

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While I'm happy to hear about their plans (even if the majority of them have no timeframe for release), this pretty much sums up what I think the developers are doing wrong.

They're focusing on new maps and new rules when they should be refining the old ones. How old is Slaughter? How many issues does it have? How many issues do Secure and Wolves Den have? Forget that, work on new maps and new rules which will suffer the exact same fate because we'll almost certainly not touch them again once they're released...

The fact that he thinks Wolves Den is "more for core players" and not simply a haven for win traders is extremely telling of how out of touch they are... Christ, if they'd just worked on a proper ranking system to begin with the whole "newbs being put off when they're stomped by veterans" wouldn't even be a damn issue anyway, but no... Instead they work on more maps and rules... Sigh...

Most of the stuff I'm looking forward to is off in the distant future and instead they expect me to be excited for a new map/rules after Slaughter... Ugh...

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Originally Posted by kpxmanifesto

Naoki Yoshida: So that’s why we wanted to focus more on the larger scale and expand on the Frontlines content, have people take their time and get used to the mechanics of it. Increase their skill level, so there isn’t such a gap between the general players versus the really hardcore players, and once we’ve seen that’s balanced out that’s when we’re going to transition.

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This gets me as well. OK, I get that we want new blood in the PvP community, but... Build a core community that can sustain itself before you try expanding it... You want to get "casual" players used to PvP? Yeah, that's great. While you're doing that the "hardcore" players that make up the core of the PvP community are slowly getting tired of the utter lack of progress on anything that actually matters and might keep them around for longer and are leaving. Queue times slump. "Casuals" see long queues and don't bother. See the problem there Yoshi?

Also, this whole thing strikes me as absurdly backwards... You want to get new players in with a 24/72 man objective based instance which will obviously have queue issues off those numbers alone, so they can be comfortable in an 8/16 man instance? Wouldn't it make far more sense to do that the other way around? Have Wolves Den as the casual instance where you can enter quickly and sharpen your skills/obtain gear before heading into the epic large scale instance which should have a focus on group coordination/objectives?

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Originally Posted by Nalien

Slaughter completely put me off PvP.

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This! No strategy, be blm, use lb, win.
Sometimes I feel like the devs think the players are so insanely stupid that a system that requires strategy would make our heads explode. They really treat us like we are stupid people with their easy mechanics and mindless pvp modes ;c

I choose FFXIV for his focus on PVE but still i like to do some pvp and like how it is limited in FFXIV to instanced pvp and few times i try to TRY pvp but, god that queues......was only ONCE in frontlines and dont waste anymore time for that queue....good i'm not here for pvp but it will be nice if i can enter once, let's say, 15min if i want to play something different from time to time.

I find PvP is the most fun content atm, but even so I can't be bothered playing it for long. The variables of the other players make it fun. There are so many things you can do with pvp! I hope it gets beeeetttteerrrrr!

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Originally Posted by Osiril

I choose FFXIV for his focus on PVE but still i like to do some pvp and like how it is limited in FFXIV to instanced pvp and few times i try to TRY pvp but, god that queues......was only ONCE in frontlines and dont waste anymore time for that queue....good i'm not here for pvp but it will be nice if i can enter once, let's say, 15min if i want to play something different from time to time.

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it depends... in the evening , in the prime time.. waiting queues for pvp are short (5-20 mins) although the system says "30 mins"

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Originally Posted by Akuryu

The GC restriction is a terrible design decision and is primarily responsible for holding PVP down in this game. Everything that can be said about this awful decision, has been said now for months. SE has shown they are not listening / do not care. That stupid restriction is here to stay and because of it, PVP will continue to suffer.

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WoW has 2 factions..

Warhammer Online had 2 factions#

Dark Age of Camelot had 3 factions..


it worked quiet good i'd say..



but besides that.. on my data centre pvp is doing well.
I personally would say when one thing is a bad decision ist.. that the pt finder system is just restricted to one data center in pvp.

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Originally Posted by Kiara1

This! No strategy, be blm, use lb, win.
Sometimes I feel like the devs think the players are so insanely stupid that a system that requires strategy would make our heads explode. They really treat us like we are stupid people with their easy mechanics and mindless pvp modes ;c

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Secure in my opinion isnt that mindless..

slaughter is much more like stupid zerg which needs to be changed but well..