Relic weapon - give it meaning

I have been playing this game since 1.0. I did not like the relic quest in 1.0 at all, so I can't speak for the difficulty there. I like the idea of being able to get a relic (more accessible than in ffxi). I do however wish that there was more more reason to have one. I have been farming mine for quite some time. I am about to do the last dungeon phase for Excalibur and now it will be defunct in 3.0. I am sure that many people that spent the time getting it will agree that it is very time consuming to have it pretty much defunct with the new relics starting in 3.0. I understand the purpose of starting new weapons, but I do think that relics need more staying power. I don't understand how the tomes weapon can be more powerful, when it is easy to get. Is there anything that can be done to help this?

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Originally Posted by Ashel

I am about to do the last dungeon phase for Excalibur and now it will be defunct in 3.0. I am sure that many people that spent the time getting it will agree that it is very time consuming to have it pretty much defunct with the new relics starting in 3.0.

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Is that for sure? Or maybe your current relic will need to be a certain stage in order to progress it in 3.0?

Wasn't there a mention of perks for those that complete their relic?

I disagree, if you started relic in 2.0 then you had a good weapon every step of the way. The lvl 125 weapons shouldn't have needed nexus to complete and the quest should have been much more time consuming. So players starting the game between patch 2.4 and 2.5 could earn it. People had the 2.45 relics 2 days after patch, not cool.

Whats crappy is people that are turning lvl 50 now and have to grind 200-300 hours just to get i lvl 110, which isnt even that good in patch 2.5.

I just keep hearing rumors that there will be new Relics. I don't know the specifics. I certainly would be amenable to using my weapon as one of the stages to get a new one. I am however thinking it might be like Mythics vs Relics in ffxi.

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Originally Posted by Gelesto

Wasn't there a mention of perks for those that complete their relic?

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I haven't heard this, but it sure would be nice. :)

I'm utterly over the RNG aspect of Relic quests. I've run 13-14 snowcloaks and still can't get the stupid drop. RNG can burn in hell.

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Originally Posted by moudoka

I'm utterly over the RNG aspect of Relic quests. I've run 13-14 snowcloaks and still can't get the stupid drop. RNG can burn in hell.

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I will be starting tonight with DarkHold. Let the RNG fun begin..

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Originally Posted by Ashel

I have been playing this game since 1.0. I did not like the relic quest in 1.0 at all, so I can't speak for the difficulty there. I like the idea of being able to get a relic (more accessible than in ffxi). I do however wish that there was more more reason to have one. I have been farming mine for quite some time. I am about to do the last dungeon phase for Excalibur and now it will be defunct in 3.0. I am sure that many people that spent the time getting it will agree that it is very time consuming to have it pretty much defunct with the new relics starting in 3.0. I understand the purpose of starting new weapons, but I do think that relics need more staying power. I don't understand how the tomes weapon can be more powerful, when it is easy to get. Is there anything that can be done to help this?

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The first thing, everything becomes useless at some point. It is just a fact of how MMOs are done. The new gear replaces the old.

The relic quest line does seem a bit much compared to what one would get from it. Players are required to put in a significant amount of work on an item that is a marginal upgrade from its predecessor. If the time/work part is going to be disproportional to the reward then players will take the "easy" way out and get the tome weapon.

Another thing that could be done is bring back the 1.0 stats to these weapons. There was a thread about this in this section. Perhaps something like this would make the relic weapons more appealing to the masses and thus make the tome weapons less of an option.

Yes, many players have chosen to take the out by getting the tome weapon. However, that is not really an option till well after that weapon has been surpassed by newer weapons. We didnt see huge numbers of i110 tome weapons until after the upgrade tokens were added to ST. Even more so when ST's loot lockout was removed. The same can be said for the poetic weapons.

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Originally Posted by Gelesto

Wasn't there a mention of perks for those that complete their relic?

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I think that this was a player suggestion. Don't think it was ever anything that was officially being considered by SE.

There was an official comment on the matter from Yoshi -- will have to go see if I can search up the source -- but he did mention that they wouldn't just throw away all people's work on the relic and that it will have some use in the expansion. Regardless of whether there is a whole new weapon or not, what we do know is that some 3.0 content will require the relics.

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Originally Posted by Ashel

I haven't heard this, but it sure would be nice. :)

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In the same interview where Yoshida reveals that there will be a new relic-type quest that is separate from the current one (i.e. does NOT require the current one to start) in 3.1, he also reveals that those who complete their 2.0 one will be "taken into consideration"
It's about as vague an answer as you can get, but considering the damned things aren't scheduled til 3.1, which is likely a good 2-3 months after 3.0 launched, they probably don't even have the details hammered out.
In fact the language he uses when asked is "OF COURSE!"
So yeah, we're getting something in 3.1 if we have our full zodiac.
I'd imagine, based on how the Relic->Zodiac quest went, that the 2.51 zodiac will be able to be used as a catalyst for the next one in the same way the Nexus was for the Zodiac, thus allowing us to skip a few steps much like the ones joked about during the quest itself.

relic will continue in some form on patch 3.1 ! yoschi already said that on a recent interview. on 3.0 launch current relic will remain. he didnt answer if the current max relic is needed on the 3.1 quest tough but my bet is on NO. current one will give you maybe a slight headstart or something else but i bet it wont be needed since everything else is reset aswell even raidprogress. lvl 60 cap means everything a new guys. get over it. thats the bane of the lvl cap raise addons since some game started it back in the day. on the bright side : you wont need to grind lvl 50 aka lowlevel dungeons with undergeared newbies for an outdated weapon to use 3.1 relic :) so imo a good choice. everyone who has it now already HAS thier advantage once 2.51 lands relic will be BIS for nearly all classes. and then you got what you worked for. a BIS weapon that will last you until lvl 60 and new endgame. thats more than enough reward i say. and yes i own one myself.

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Originally Posted by Ashel

pretty much defunct with the new relics starting in 3.0.

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Originally Posted by Ashel

I just keep hearing rumors

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Exactly. ^^ Please don't say the sky is falling yet. The relics HAVE meaning currently. You don't need to ask for something already there. :o

I have a relic and I honestly couldn't care less if post expansion relic needs the old piece of crap or not. I hope future players don't have to grind old relic though, would be quite cruel. Really now, grinding atmas for i90 weapon when the latest relic step is ilvl 2000? pls.

Relic ( and actually any equip in a game ) has meaning only when it is relevant.Theres no reason for the current relic to retain any significant relevance come later patches,....in fact theres mainly reasons against it. Only ppl who feel "others should suffer what I suffered" will be against the old relic not being needed for the new one, and no1 cares about these ppl. Especially not casual friendly se.

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Originally Posted by Sessurea

Really now, grinding atmas for i90 weapon when the latest relic step is ilvl 2000? pls.

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Not much of a grind at that phase anymore, was done with it in 3-4 hours, basically one sitting, actually got too many atmas had to chuck one. By the time its up to that level the other phases I'm sure will be quite simple too.

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Originally Posted by Eye_Gore

Not much of a grind at that phase anymore, was done with it in 3-4 hours, basically one sitting, actually got too many atmas had to chuck one. By the time its up to that level the other phases I'm sure will be quite simple too.

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Except it is not just the atma phase. It's the books that will become very difficult since very few, if any will be doing the dungeons and fates at that level. Then its the alexandrite that players would need. Then the light farming. Then the zodiac part.

This game will likely go through the same thing as other MMOs that have brought out expansions. The more and more players play the expansion content, the more and more they aren't doing the 2.0 content.

Good news zodiac users! We're getting a power bump in this upcoming patch to the relics again and in 3.1 ANOTHER boost to our relics. They shall continue to scale hardcore till the end of Eorzea

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Originally Posted by Deathscythe343

Except it is not just the atma phase. It's the books that will become very difficult since very few, if any will be doing the dungeons and fates at that level. Then its the alexandrite that players would need. Then the light farming. Then the zodiac part.

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Thats what I mean though they nerfed the begining of it. So it stand to reason that if it progresses and the ilvl goes up that they may continue to nerf the early upgrades. Wishful thinking maybe.

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Originally Posted by Deathscythe343

Except it is not just the atma phase. It's the books that will become very difficult since very few, if any will be doing the dungeons and fates at that level. Then its the alexandrite that players would need. Then the light farming. Then the zodiac part.

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FATEs are soloable unless previous instance of the FATE you need was murdered by a zerg.
For Dungeons they mentioned plans that you can enter with NPC soldiers... and that's aside from there will always be people that level. We don't know what level of gear we should have to proceed with 51-60, but chances are story is going to expect i100 (with 2.5 requiring i90, it's not too farfetched to assume next story is going to be i100) so there is a chance people need to run existing level 50 dungeons for gear if not for xp.
Alexandrites already drop quite a lot from FATEs now and will probably drop even more later on.
etc.
The only bad part that need a real nerf is the materia for Novus.

sorry nekodar but your story calculation is crap. reason : i HIGHLY doubt that a new player will have to do ANY of the storyquests after "the ultimate weapon" to start heavensward story arc. the other story quests will remain "optional" for new players. so dont expect to see the next story quests beeing i100. that i90 was just done because at this point nearly all lvl 50 players who are that far into the story have this ilvl easily. but new players WILL NOT. the tombestone gear wont exist anymore for lvl 50 come heavensward. another reason why new players will be allowed to skip this. if you have ever been part of a lvl cap raise expansion launch on any mmo then you can clearly see why this would just not be PRACTICAL at all for new players which SE definilty wants to get.

forget about new story beeing i100 to begin lol. just forget it. wont work with new players. this is always what you have to keep in mind when it comes down to heavensward since its VERY likely the devs have aswell.

That there will be a new relic in 3.0 are just rumours as far as I know. Atleast I have not seen anything said about that from SE.
Although I remember reading that they have said that they are working on a way for the Relic from 2.x to continue in 3.0. Sadly I can't find the source of it so I won't blame you if you dont trust me. Hopefully someone else knows what I am talking about and finds the source.

so far THIS was all that was said by yoschida considering relics and 3.0 :



famitsu: How will the ZW quest evolve from here? How will be it handled in 3.0?

Yoshida: Players have worked hard so of course we're not throwing everything away. Most people will be busy working towards the new level cap at the beginning of 3.0. There will also be new items you can get via the new quests. The continuation of the ZW storyline, its sequel, or some kind of scenario where your weapon grows with you, is planned for 3.1.

famitsu: Will you spare a thought for ZW owners then?

Yoshida: Of course.

source : http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/commen...ntinues_in_31/

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Originally Posted by Windklinge

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ok, although I think I remembered something else.
Oh-well... Thx for the link and all.

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Originally Posted by Windklinge

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Sorry, but it's unlikely Square would let new players skip content entirely. The farthest they've gone is easing old content via mechanics nerf or echo buffs. Skipping story content would put new players in the dark because now they have no idea what's going on; 2.4 revealed some interesting info regarding primals and 2.5 unleashed a major bombshell. Skip that and you might as well just ignore the entire story completely and play only for the shiny toys.

why is it unlikely? because they have never done it till now? well NEWSFLASH. there was never a lvl cap raise ever before on this game and thats the sole factor while you cannot compare it to anything before. so youre comparing something that CANNOT be compared at all sry. this isnt lile a patch 2.6 like some of you guys may think itll be. its a completly new endgame and even yoschida already said so himself.
they will allow new players to skip coil entirely and still play the new raid aswell. its already confirmed.

you want a reason as to why? think about this : no tombstone gear since tombstone are max level things and max level is now 60. old instances dropping rng based loot. new player arrives at lvl 50 finishes jobquest and mainstory quest. then needs to kill new hm primals and clear snowcloak and other instances with i50 gear? there is no more tons of max geared lvl 50 players carrying em. they are GONE. they are all at lvl 60 by then. so you think devs will let new players be stuck at lvl 50 with thier story until they are lvl 60 or have farmed rng based instance loot for outdated lowlevel content? not gonna happen mate lol. just not gonna happen. you will see ^^ thats always the case on any mmo who has a mainstoryquest and raises its lvl cap. lotro is a good example. and there it was the same even with story quests. didnt need to finish old ones to access new ones after lvl cap raise. they will stay. new players CAN do then. but they wont be NEEDED to advance into heavensward.

some people here seem to see the xpac as a bigger patch 2.6 its not guys. its definitly a HUGE difference this time. and you just cannot compare it to any of the past patches they did because it works different. anyone who played an mmo with lvl cap raises will probaly have a good idea of whats gonna happen. since doing it any other way blocks new players out and therefore loses potential customers which is not something ANY modern developer will do.

Just because MMO X did Y and Z doesn't always mean this game is going to follow in the same footsteps. Everyone thought the cash shop was going to throw power for money up there like every other F2P MMO, but yet it never happened. This isn't going to be what 1.0 to 2.0 was where a reset was required. Even if what you said was true, how are they going to cater to people who are at a low level? Ishgard isn't going to be a new starting city (and the devs also went out to say the city won't have housing for now), most of Corethas has mobs between level 30 and 45, and you still run into the issue of old players who are now reaching level 60 while fresh players will be struggling just to catch up and do the content new in 3.0.


And guess what? A raised level cap doesn't mean players still in 2.X are magically stuck at level 50 until they reach 3.0. They'll only be stuck at level 50 if they never bought the expansion to begin with. Everyone thought relics would not carry over to 3.0 either, but Yoshida said he had something in store for people who had completed their relics. As for the coil, it has no bearing on the main story and was mostly just hard content filler for people to get awesome gear. It can be skipped because it's optional. The main story quests are NOT optional and are required to unlock other content like primals.

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Originally Posted by Windklinge

why is it unlikely? because they have never done it till now? well NEWSFLASH. there was never a lvl cap raise ever before on this game and thats the sole factor while you cannot compare it to anything before. so youre comparing something that CANNOT be compared at all sry. this isnt lile a patch 2.6 like some of you guys may think itll be. its a completly new endgame and even yoschida already said so himself.
they will allow new players to skip coil entirely and still play the new raid aswell. its already confirmed

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This is really dumb reasoning though, coil has ALWAYS been optional, it's not core story content.

I can't imagine it will trap people at lv 50 until they do all the pre-heavensward content, but I highly doubt you will be able to skip main story quests. They lead into heavensward plot-wise, that's the point.

They might add gear rewards to the 2.1-2.5 Main Scenario quests so newer players can get into Snowcloak and Keeper of the Lake without having to grind Crystal Tower or tomestones.

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Originally Posted by Sadana

Exactly. ^^ Please don't say the sky is falling yet.

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Welcome to the forums where rumor and misinterpretations are taken as gospel and rages due to exageration is the topic of the day. Just look back at the last one where they said about balance changes to NIN, the amount of hysteria was laughable :P