well since im not high enough level to post anywhere else....pvp

i bought this game about a week ago... was having a bit of fun, and was looking forward to pvp...
then i found out it was arena style pvp. i absolutly hate arena style pvp. its BS. Why cant there atleast be 1 server where its open world pvp. complete free for all. looting PCs gear and gil... not arena style...

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Originally Posted by JoshyNeurotic

looting PCs gear and gil

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I guess if this was confined to a server where people wanted it, sure. But this would be awful for me; I worked hard for all my stuff I'd rather not get one-shotted by someone and have them take it all.

In other news, an area for one-on-one pvp would be nice.

there are ways around that. like making gear "no drop" or something of the like. were as once you pick the item up you cannot drop it, trade it, sell it. so if someone kills you they cannot take it. Or Soulbound gear. As well as having Lore, or gear that your only allowed one of. so if someone kills you and you have the super sword of ultimate killing, and they already have one they cannot pick it up. also having gil on your person, you would just have to stop off at a bank and deposit it.

finally yes, having a dedicated server for peoples who wanted to play open world pvp would be ideal. ive played some games where you could turn the pvp on and off and people would just simply turn pvp off when they were getting killed.

anyways a couple quick responses to things that could be easily addressed.

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Originally Posted by JoshyNeurotic

Why cant there atleast be 1 server where its open world pvp.

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Probably because it costs money to run servers, and SE isn't going to spend that kind of money on the half dozen or so players who might briefly choose to play there. There's no point to it when the game is entirely PvE.

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Originally Posted by AskaRay

In other news, an area for one-on-one pvp would be nice.

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This I'd agree with, though.

Simply put, this isn't that type of game. There are full pvp, full loot MMOs out there.

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Originally Posted by JoshyNeurotic

i bought this game about a week ago... was having a bit of fun, and was looking forward to pvp...
then i found out it was arena style pvp. i absolutly hate arena style pvp. its BS. Why cant there atleast be 1 server where its open world pvp. complete free for all. looting PCs gear and gil... not arena style...

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No thanks.

Sorry brody but I can't believe anyone is as dumb as you, to buy a game without even knowing what type of game it is.
There has been plenty of publicity and the Final Fantasy RPG franchise must be one of the best known in the world, you must live under a rock to not know what this is.
No one wants a dumb pvp ONLY game here, so it will never happen.
Go have a look on Steam where you can get hundreds of that type of game for a couple of quid. Just sell this one on ebay as it requires thought and is obviously beyond you. :confused:

if this condition happen, they will target healer first and shaming them since they can't dps other class

i knew what kind of game it is... i just didnt research the PVP element. also... this game requires very little thought. get quest. look at map. kill thing on map. mate feed kill repeat. you dont even have to read any of the text really. just keep hitting X and then look on the map to where you are supposed to go. No MMO's these days are made to use your brain, or to have guild comrade, or to have the threat of losing levels due to death, losing equipment due to corpse rot.

have you ever played a game with corpse rot? do you know what corpse rot is ? probably not cause most games have a return spawn point, or a graveyard, or something of the like where you respawn, for the most part, unscathed. not having to go get your corpse, with all your gear on it, within a certain time or the corpse rots away with whatever was left on it.

im still playing it, its fun, im just disappointed that its followed in the line of MMO's that have done the arena style pvp. there are so many good MMO's out there, but ever since WoW introduced there version of arena style pvp everyone has followed suit. i also never said a pvp ONLY game, i think i said " why cant there be atleast 1 open world pvp server" ... or something of the like... i dont know... im to dumb to scroll back.

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Originally Posted by Eul

if this condition happen, they will target healer first and shaming them since they can't dps other class

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if the company builds the balance between classes right, a healer should be able to heal themselves at the rate of a equal level dps class.

Well, here's the thing. Those full loot open world pvp MMOs... they all have (compared to games like XIV and WoW) very small player bases. It's not that they're doing anything in particular wrong; it's a niche appeal. Most players that play RPGs* don't like open world PvP in their online RPGs. Lambast them if you like, but it's the simple truth. A number of game designers, including Square in this case, have chosen to appeal to the larger audience.

Liking niche games is fine (there are a few I'm VERY fond of myself), but it's a bit unrealistic to expect the features that make them niche to appear in the mainstream. That said, Yoshi's mentioned he would consider an open world PvP server (probably not with looting though) if enough players asked for it. But there doesn't seem to be much desire among the playerbase, at least AFAICT.

*Obviously Battlefield/CoD/etc types are a different crowd.

Well Yoshi-P said if there was a large enough demand for a PvP server they would think about implementing it. But you're right this game is mostly made for the people that enjoy PvE.

And secondly I agree pre-50 this game is very easy. Once you get to extreme primal and end game coil there is a big step up in difficulty.

im not a fan of FPS games. and dont really consider battlefield and FPS like that MMOs. it semantics i know, but to me a MMO is a fantasy style RPG. but thats me. thats all im asking for, is a server so that people can have the option instead of every dam game having arena style pvp.

I can see it now. Folks on ilvl 130 gear hanging out in vital class quest areas one-shotting all the newbies for lulz.

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Originally Posted by JoshyNeurotic

im not a fan of FPS games. and dont really consider battlefield and FPS like that MMOs. it semantics i know, but to me a MMO is a fantasy style RPG. but thats me. thats all im asking for, is a server so that people can have the option instead of every dam game having arena style pvp.

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So on the plus side, they've said they would look into it if there was enough demand. But once again... AFAIK the desire isn't there in this player base. Most people seem to want to play in peace, with PvP being an explicitly opt-in thing which arena-style does.

Have you considered Aion? It's a fantasy MMO. A really big, important zone with quests is open PvP. Technically most of the world is open PvP, but it's easiest to get into that big zone. For the others, you have to find a portal that lets you cross into the opposing faction's other zones. It's also modern with pretty decent graphics, something the more niche games can't boast.

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Originally Posted by JoshyNeurotic

Why cant there atleast be 1 server where its open world pvp. complete free for all. looting PCs gear and gil... not arena style...

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I have no idea man. The open world is hardly being used for anything anyway. It's not like you pvp in duties lol. There are so many things they could do to take the teeth out of griefers anyway. Die twice in 5 minutes to "swarmers"? You get immunity for 30 minutes if you want it. There are so many options. The real reason it's not in is because it would shell shock most of the community. I've always found it ironic that a community so hell bent on insisting SE should make their game less of a memorization game, to balk so hard at the challenge of facing other players unabated in an unstable environment.

Open wolrd pvp can really bring a large part of the community together. But then again, it can also cause people to troll and say some nasty....oh wait. :rolleyes:

The main issue I have is that in order to have open world PVP, that needs to be the main focus of the game, just because of how pervasive it is. You'd need to hire bodyguards anytime you do gathering or crafting, your rare armor and weapons would need to only be pulled out for duties (or if you've got an alliance of folks you trust)... You'd literally be unable to leave your inn room without focusing on PVP. And some players don't like that, nor does it fit the world's theme.

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Originally Posted by Urthdigger

The main issue I have is that in order to have open world PVP, that needs to be the main focus of the game, just because of how pervasive it is. You'd need to hire bodyguards anytime you do gathering or crafting, your rare armor and weapons would need to only be pulled out for duties (or if you've got an alliance of folks you trust)... You'd literally be unable to leave your inn room without focusing on PVP. And some players don't like that, nor does it fit the world's theme.

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I respectfully disagree with almost all of that. DC Universe Online balance open world pvp with pve content just fine. SE should have taken notes from that game instead of WoW. DC also broke the trinity very well.

Like I said, there are so many remedies to stop "swarmers" it's not even funny. Besides, I think the suggestion was separate servers. It's not like it would matter in duties. And it would make hunts REALLY interesting.

If it's open world pvp with looting gear like the OP asked for, all it takes is one death to lose literally months of work. I guarantee you there would be folks going in groups to gank valuable gear off people, especially gatherers who can't fight back. How, pray tell, would you make it so you DIDN'T constantly need a posse guarding your back for even the simplest of tasks outside your inn room?

Ya. That's why I said I disagree with almost everything. Personally I wouldn't mind. The only problem I can see with looting gatherers is the cooldowns. You could always just make it so that DoL gear isn't lootable. Umm, can't be engaged during a node and five minutes after? Idk. I'm sure someone would come up with a simple solution.

I'm just on board with open world pvp. I was in a villain league in DC and we would raid the hero bases on the weekends for smits and giggles. So much fun man. We would start killing new players by the base so they couldn't complete their missions. And yes I know I know that's bad. BUT, we always knew what would happen. In about five minutes time, 3 or 4 leagues would come swooping down on us talking smack, helping the newbies out and making them feel like heroes are really heroes. Heck, they would zerg us so bad sometimes some of us would freeze up xD. On some weekends, we would get 2 full raid groups together decked out in pvp gear. We would REALLY give them a run for their money. We took out three and four full raid groups at times. That was just because we were prepared and they weren't.

When we were really giving them a hard time and tea bagging them all over the place, there would be this....this calm. Like a calm before the storm. Then it would happen. LOOOOADS of heroes as far as the eye could see fully decked out in pvp gear. It...was...glorious! :eek:

And again, about the newbies leveling up. We weren't malicious. The base we usually targeted was right next to low level hero missions. We'd just kill them once or twice to get them shouting. We only killed someone a couple times if they weren't shouting for the big dogs.

Then of course there was the pvp open world instances. God those were fun sometimes. Standing on top of a thirty story building and jump down into a chaotic mess of about fifty people just trying to murder you or run interference.

So in end, there are plenty of people who would sign up for a pvp server. There always has been.

Well, your example is for a game that's designed from the start to be based around PVP. I'm not entirely opposed to PVP in games, but FFXIV's mechanics and lore stress working together, open world PVP would feel out of place. In a game like Dark Souls however, I accept and welcome PVP as a challenge because it fits in a world where everyone is a backstabbing scumbag.

In addition, I'm guessing DC didn't have you lose gear on death? My biggest issue here is with the open world PVP AND looting that the OP suggested. One or the other may be fine, but not both. In a game with open world PVP, the death penalty has to not be so harsh as to set you back weeks or months if you die. Dark Souls is a good example of that, as I lose my humanity and risk losing my souls, but usually nothing I can't get back in a few hours of grinding. As for a game with looting, one should keep it only to certain areas. Back when I played RuneScape, I knew that you didn't enter the Wilderness with anything you weren't prepared to lose, and if you did lose stuff up there you could work on recouping your losses in the other areas before giving it another shot. When you combine both of them, death is likely to become a humiliation conga where you're knocked back to square one AND deprived of any opportunity to work your way back up. Especially once there's established players who can and will just pile on newbies for the lulz.

I used to play Perfect World before, where PVP is open and dead player will have a chance to drop their item, in my experienced before there is one player trying to PK me but he died instead and he dropped his legendary bow then I loot it, that player begging me to give him back his weapon, but at that time I'm so angry without thinking too much I sell his weapon to NPC and toss a tiny gold from NPC in front of him. I'm humiliate him with my actions and after that I feel so regret. I've tried to find that player again to ask for forgiveness and to give his weapon back but that player already quit. After awhile I also quit with my guilty feeling.

In World Of Warcraft, they open the PVP server where 2 factions collide and fighting each others. High lvl player will try to camp low lvl player or steal world boss, and sometimes it sux if you are alone or not have much stronger friends. But what I don't like is player obsession, some of them never create character at opposite faction.

I like RIFT PVP... 2 faction can be in same guild yet fighting each others.

Apologies for my bad english.

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Originally Posted by Urthdigger

Well, your example is for a game that's designed from the start to be based around PVP. I'm not entirely opposed to PVP in games, but FFXIV's mechanics and lore stress working together, open world PVP would feel out of place. In a game like Dark Souls however, I accept and welcome PVP as a challenge because it fits in a world where everyone is a backstabbing scumbag.

In addition, I'm guessing DC didn't have you lose gear on death? My biggest issue here is with the open world PVP AND looting that the OP suggested. One or the other may be fine, but not both. In a game with open world PVP, the death penalty has to not be so harsh as to set you back weeks or months if you die....

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exactually, having the possability of losing gear makes you think... ok what can i bring... what can i lose... what do i need to achieve xp grinding, questing, etc. and running with it

I snipped your post a little, but I'm not trying to convolute anything you said ;)

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Originally Posted by Urthdigger

Well, your example is for a game that's designed from the start to be based around PVP...snip... open world PVP would feel out of place. In a game like Dark Souls however, I accept and welcome PVP as a challenge because it fits in a world where everyone is a backstabbing scumbag.

In addition, I'm guessing DC didn't have you lose gear on death?...snip....

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Not sure if I can debate that much. If I recall correctly DC was released with pvp only servers...I think. I will say though, lore not withstanding, the actual game mechanics are very similar as they are in most mmos. You have dds, healers, and tanks. That design in itself has proven effective for pvp on a wide scale. ARR is really no different in this regard, at least not by much.

I don't feel it would be out of place at all, again lore not withstanding.

That's just it though. You knew if you went online you would probably be invaded. Having pvp servers would be the same. We all know however, if they did introduce a pvp server, someone somewhere would be complaining about it :rolleyes:

No, DC didn't have a looting mechanic when I last played. And again, a looting mechanic could be almost anything. Could be tomes for example.

Something else no one thinks about is RMTs. They...would...be...blown to pieces.....and it would be GLORIOUS! \o/

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Originally Posted by nuyu11

I used to play Perfect World before, where PVP is open and dead player will have a chance to drop their item, in my experienced before there is one player trying to PK me but he died instead and he dropped his legendary bow then I loot it, that player begging me to give him back his weapon, but at that time I'm so angry without thinking too much I sell his weapon to NPC and toss a tiny gold from NPC in front of him. I'm humiliate him with my actions and after that I feel so regret. I've tried to find that player again to ask for forgiveness and to give his weapon back but that player already quit. After awhile I also quit with my guilty feeling.

...snip.... Apologies for my bad english.

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I commend you for your in game ethics. However, the player you describe was simply a sore loser. I know people like to say gamers in general are selfish and entitled, and that's true, but players also know what they are getting into for the most part. Take all the threads that pop up about premades in ARR. It's almost like people don't understand that people generally pvp for two reasons: A competitive challenge and a reward. That reward can be tangible, or it can simply be gratification, but competition is almost always the driving factor behind why someone would pvp. Society doesn't understand how to lose with grace anymore. I guarantee you most of the people in those premades have done their share of losing. No one just walks into a pvp setting and wins, unless its pay to win.

And your English is great! I'm jealous, I know I don't speak a second language...unless toddler counts xD

OP, you want to be ganked in this game and lose all gear you working on for months??
I believe you are so naive to think you are the best and never lose gear if that pvp thing you propose even happen, you are that much naive??

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Originally Posted by Osiril

OP, you want to be ganked in this game and lose all gear you working on for months??
I believe you are so naive to think you are the best and never lose gear if that pvp thing you propose even happen, you are that much naive??

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I think it's naïve to even ask that question if you actually read the thread.

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Originally Posted by Stihllodeing

I think it's naïve to even ask that question if you actually read the thread.

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I read the thread but still think that this guy has a mask on his face.

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Originally Posted by Osiril

I read the thread but still think that this guy has a mask on his face.

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I suspect it's one of the reasons PvP MMOs are a niche thing... Everyone wants to be a predator, but when they end up being prey, well suddenly it's not all that fun...

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Originally Posted by Osiril

OP, you want to be ganked in this game and lose all gear you working on for months??
I believe you are so naive to think you are the best and never lose gear if that pvp thing you propose even happen, you are that much naive??

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did i ever say that i was the best ? no, i am sure i am not. getting ganked and ganking is apart of pvp. one would be naive to think that they were invincible. unless your fancy the bard.... google that....

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

I suspect it's one of the reasons PvP MMOs are a niche thing... Everyone wants to be a predator, but when they end up being prey, well suddenly it's not all that fun...

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depends on the fight you give....

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

I suspect it's one of the reasons PvP MMOs are a niche thing... Everyone wants to be a predator, but when they end up being prey, well suddenly it's not all that fun...

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Mmos without pvp are a niche contemporarily.

And yes what you say is the same as saying people write letters to companies they have a problem with, hardly anyone writes a letter to a company they like saying, "Good job!". In other words, people just like to bitch.

However, most people who play online games nowadays don't get all worked up over it anymore. It's only the games that have an overly emotional player base, or games that have a very young player base.

I don't think SE wants ARR to be known as the "we can't handle it" or "<18 years of age" mmo.

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Originally Posted by Stihllodeing

Mmos without pvp are a niche contemporarily.

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MMOs that have extensive or open world PvP are a niche market. MMOs without any PvP are apparently an even smaller niche. It seems that the mainstream pattern has become (like here) to offer PvP as a minor little sideline that's only peripherally related to the rest of the game. Apparently there are more players who may want to occasionally dabble in a little PvP for the sake of variety than there are players who really like it as a main focus.

i have so many complaints about MMOs these days.. pvp is just the start. what happened to corpse runs, losing xp when dying, not taking 2 hours to get to level 10 ( more like taking a week), hell levels, penalty levels, epic quest items, rare loot, guild raids to get one item for one person ( which the raid takes 10 hours), skills at pulling mobs, splitting mobs, figuring out when a mob spawns cause it only spawns once every 7 days and only drops the one item you need for the one person on a 1 out of 10 times killed, depending on your class leveling its self is a skill. some can solo, some cant, some arent any use in groups till X level... so on and so forth.

mmos these days, be it that they are fun, are way to bloody easy. ive tried about a dozen in the past while, and be it they have a certain appeal, they lack any real talent to play.

maybe im just a jaded old school gamer.

Dunno if people mentioned it (I don't really feel like reading the posts in this thread up till this point) but at the moment there are two types of PvP in this game. The arena style in the Wolves Den and the uh... free for all? in an instance called Frontlines where I think the matches are like 16x16x16 or somesuch.

That being said, I don't know if PvP will ever be that big in this game. I know it's disappointing for some players but I know that on the other side a lot of players are happy that pvp isn't a focus, myself included.

edit: I just read the OPs post above mine and I have to say, maybe FFXIV may be too main stream for you. Perhaps you should try FFXI. It's been a while since I've played FFXI but when I left it, the game had all of those things you mentioned and then some.
After putting up w/ that stuff for 9yrs, I'm glad that FFXIV is more mainstream. I can't imagine having that much time to invest into an MMO anymore.

There are plenty mmo out there offer better PVP, this game is not designed for that. I'm used to be a hardcore PVP player and most of them always use F*** words, harassing and bullying. The community itself is almost same like MOBA... Corrupted. This is the first mmo that I feel so warm, doing emote with other Lalafell, with the gathering style that we can collect at the same node, the storytelling concept. This game is PVE base and I love it so much. I don't want to be a prick like I used to be, kill player who interrupt me at my farming area, the player that I don't like, my guild dispute, and with the most immoral actions is farm from lowbies for gold and mats A.K.A stealing.

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Originally Posted by JoshyNeurotic

what happened to corpse runs, losing xp when dying, not taking 2 hours to get to level 10 ( more like taking a week), hell levels, penalty levels, epic quest items, rare loot, guild raids to get one item for one person ( which the raid takes 10 hours), skills at pulling mobs, splitting mobs, figuring out when a mob spawns cause it only spawns once every 7 days and only drops the one item you need for the one person on a 1 out of 10 times killed, depending on your class leveling its self is a skill. some can solo, some cant, some arent any use in groups till X level... so on and so forth.

mmos these days, be it that they are fun, are way to bloody easy.

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Part of that change came about because games began appealing to adults. When games as a whole were more of a niche and mainly adolescent market, gamers would spend 10 hours on a raid, or make a point of being online to catch that rare once a week spawn, or whatever, because they were adolescents who had the free time necessary to do that. Now the majority of players are grown up and are fitting gaming into their free hours after they work a full-time job, so a lot of what used to be normal is now simply not possible, at least not for the majority of the audience. So some of the timing constraints had to be stripped out.

But I, too, wish the difficulty hadn't been so fully stripped out in the process, that it took either skill or at least some persistence to make progress. I think the game would be a lot more rewarding if every level you gained (right from the very beginning, going from 1 to 2) was a significant accomplishment you had to work at for a while. I still think it's ridiculous that MMOs, which make their money based on how many months people will keep playing them, try to adapt their curve so that people can finish the main content in a few weeks if they want to.