Allagan Empire

Where are the descendants?

Or who are the descendants?

An Empire is a vast entity, spread over a huge distance. The events which caused the Crystal Tower to sink couldn't have been enough to annihilate teh whole race. Yes, drive it to a point that it collapsed but their still would be survivors from outside the devestation of CT.

Strange theory, possibly, could Garleans be direct descendents of Allags? Allags where initiators of MAgiteck technology which has been further utilised by the Garleans. Does that imply, just like pure blooded Garleans that Pure Allags could not directly utilize magic? Thus the reliance on Magiteck.

Counter to that is the red eyes of the Allagans and the third eye of the Garleans.

So questions:

What happened to the Allagan survivors?
Who and where are their descendents?
Are Garleans somehow linked?
And how did the develop a third eye?

Just doesnt sit well that the Crystal Events could have wiped out a whole specific population without wiping out other races and everything in between also. Also the events seemed to be more localized than global surrounding CT. I need to go over and analyse teh CT cutscenes again for any missed hints XD

A formerly popular theory is the those gigas (?) all over mor dhona were allagans or at the very least slaves, due to their obsession with the crystal tower; especially since tower has been part of their lore even before it came up recently

Well we only know of one garlean who apparently is descendant from allag and that was nael van darnus but that doesn't mean other garleans are.
We know nothing about the third eye except they seem to be able to see through them to some extent (with technology or not is unknown) as the helmets that the trbuni, legates and centurions wear have camera looking things where their third eye would be.

It's possible that everyone has some allagan roots if you go back far enough. We'll probably get more info on it eventually.

They fled into space and we are going to have a Star Ocean's like expansion.

Apart from the Leve "Who writes History". There's not much other than what the gigas says during combat about being a decendant from allagans and using the tower to go to the heavens or something. The other lore gave no evidence to support his claim other than the gigas thnik the tower is a holy relic.

I think right now we can just blame Amon for everything. Gigas? Descendants of Amon's experiments in making everyone including himself 50 feet tall. Garleans? Descendants of Amon's experiments in giving people three eyes 'cause he was bored that day.

Those floating continents in the expansion might have remnants of a post-earthquake Allagan civilization.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't the red eyes only a trait of Allagan royalty, not the common people?

And wasn't Nael an Elezen male? Only Bahamut's reincarnation of him was Garlean (and female...)

The Crystal Tower storyline tells us that there were indeed survivors, G'raha Tia being the last descendant of royal blood;

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You see, not all the world perished in Xande's calamity. Survivors stood amidst the ruins of Allag, looking to the Crystal Tower. But it was nowhere to be seen.

Yet they hoped its spires would again dominate the land, and prayed that the Crystal Tower would be a beacon of hope to people everywhere.

Word of this soon reached the only member of Allag's royalty to outlive the empire: the princess Salina.

Salina was moved by the people's dearest wish. She used the very best of Allag's technology to give her blood and memories to he whom she trusted most. That man was my forebearer.

For millennia, we waited. Allag's art and ingenuity faded. Our royal blood grew thin. But before the last drop could vanish from the realm, the memory of all this returned to me.

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Rather than being wiped out it seems more like their races identity just slowly died out following the Calamity without their empire holding them together.

I'm honestly more interested in their society. All we've seen so far is basically their military might, which was mostly built around subduing Primals and conquering the world. Dialog suggests they had a civil war on their hands as well, with Allagan Warriors of Light being what actually caused Xandes to dump all of Dalamuds power onto Crystal Tower in an attempt to quicken his goals, but what instead caused the Calamity. They had royalty, I believe princess Salina was described as opposing Xandes and Amons world domination.

Silly theory ahead;

Given their technological prowess they seem like a secular society, and you certainly can't spot a single Twelve related symbol in any of their structures (I thought the statues surrounding the battle field for Phlegethon might have been something, but there weren't enough of them for them to be the Twelve), however the Boarderland Ruins does have a Sun Temple, which given how Crystal Tower powered their empire (before Dalamud) isn't too surprising, but oddly there isn't a single allusion to Azeyma (unless I missed it), it's also located close to a Markets and Manor, which suggests its a civilian area. This leads me to believe they either out right did not care for the Twelve (which given the possible similarities to Primals makes sense), or the Twelve simply did not exist at the time. However, we do have a collection of Allagan Runestones dotted about in various Levequests, featuring the symbols of the Twelve. These are however, very basic even by modern standards, we farm Allagan Tomestones frequently which seem much more complex, but these are literally just carved stones. This suggests to me that they either originate early in the Allagan Empire, or after its fall. I'm going with the later because of the Allagan Runestone - Menphina; it features the twin moon (Dalamud) on it, something they put there in the twilight of their reign... Now, to me this strongly suggests that, following Xandes Calamity, the survivors created the Twelve mythology. Could they have simply have cast aside the Twelve long ago and the Calamity renewed that faith? Maybe, but if that were the case I'd expect the Allagan Sun Temple to still have some allusion to Azeyma, and it doesn't.

Now, my crazy theory is this; The Twelve are/were notable Allagan survivors. I always found it odd that the Twelve have relationships, for example Rhalgr is described as being father to both Byregot and Halone, yet their mother is not mentioned. Right off the bat that kind of lore makes the Twelve seem less divine and more mundane, and if the Twelve were Allagan survivors, you can explain the absence of various mothers/fathers; They didn't survive the Calamity. The Twelve who survived the Calamity and started leading survivors through the Umbral Era became legendary amongst the survivors, eventually resulting in them being near worshiped by descendants to the point where whole city-states do end up worshiping them as patron deities, in much the same way that we can perhaps view Bahamut as having once existed.

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Originally Posted by PArcher

Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't the red eyes only a trait of Allagan royalty, not the common people?

And wasn't Nael an Elezen male? Only Bahamut's reincarnation of him was Garlean (and female...)

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He was Garlean on part due to his bloodline's history (I forgot the details).

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Originally Posted by Nalien

Silly theory ahead;

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Not really, the allagan empire was opposed to all primals, they possibly sealed them and had anti-primal weapons ( Ultima, Omega ), they were more or less what garlemald is now. Therefor you won't see any sign of a primal in their buildings.

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Originally Posted by PArcher

Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't the red eyes only a trait of Allagan royalty, not the common people?

And wasn't Nael an Elezen male? Only Bahamut's reincarnation of him was Garlean (and female...)

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He's always been 'garlean' the elezen body shape seems to be a common trait for garleans as well because one of the npcs currently in the scenarios has been discovered to be (spoiler) a garlean has similar shapes to a elezen, I wont name who but we know due to a poorly concealed third eye also if you look at any centurion model they are about the same height as elezen. People only thought nael was elezen because of his emotes.

At the very least it seems garleans can be taller than highlander hyurs.

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Originally Posted by lololink

Not really, the allagan empire was opposed to all primals, they possibly sealed them and had anti-primal weapons ( Ultima, Omega ), they were more or less what garlemald is now. Therefor you won't see any sign of a primal in their buildings.

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It's mostly silly for the potential implications for characters like Midgardsormr;

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The legend, as told by Erik, states that, "There was the birth of Althyk, god of time among the Twelve, and in turn, His younger sister Nymeia, goddess of fate. And then there was water, and through it the Silvertear Falls came to be at the center of all that was. Here was the source not only of water, but the fount of all magic as well. Now, when water came into being, so too did the great dragon Midgardsormr. Brother Time and Sister Fate, fearing the Falls might fall into the hands of evil, ordered Midgardsormr their protector and warden. Much later, with the arrival of man, would Midgardsormr be worshipped as the guardian deity of Silvertear Falls."

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Now, if Althyk and Nymeia were Allagan survivors, that puts this legend in a new light. Instantly it would dispute the idea that Midgardsormr fathered Bahamut, and instead make him out to be something more like the last survivor of Meracydia, though perhaps he existed prior to that and upon the survivors of Allag returning to the location which caused the latest Calamity, a deal was struck; He would ensure the Tower is not misused again, and they would leave his kind alone. This could explain his presence at the Battle of Silvertear Skies, Garlemald was looking to occupy Mor Dhona and considering the events at Bozja Citadel (Silvertear Skies was 15 years ago, in 1.0 (before a 5 year time skip) Bozja Citadel was described as occurring 10 summers ago, iirc), their intention certainly would seem clear to Midgardsormr, hence the aggression.

Another mundane aspect of the Twelve is their rivalries, Halone is said to be a bitter rival to Nophica. This perhaps indicates that they had a difference of opinion when it came to reclaiming their technology, how to use it, dragons, etc. Interestingly the two most violent seeming Twelve are father and daughter, Rhalgr and Halone, while the others have mostly common titles (the Lover, the Traders, etc.). I'm thinking Rhalgr, Halone, and Byregot (being a builder rather than warrior) were fairly high up in society before it's fall, perhaps even holding resentment towards Dragons following the Meracydia conquest. That could explain the current situation in Ishgard. What's more, if Midgardsormr was protecting the most important relic of Allag to prevent it ever being misused again, perhaps his sons were doing the same; Nidhogg was ousted from his domain by Ishgardians at the City-States founding, their sin could very well be them taking back dangerous Allagan technology Nidhogg was safeguarding. That maybe-shield and suspiciously Allagan like blue line seen on the bridge to Ishgard in the trailer certainly indicate something...

Only issue with all this, and why I think it's potentially silly, is where dos Hydaelyn fit into all this? Midgardsormr actively acknowledges Hydaelyn and seems far more related to Her than to the Twelve. Some of the stuff really fits nicely though, like Midgardsormr opposing Garlemald because they attempted to recreate Crystal Tower at Bozja Citadel and then made a move for Crystal Towers resting place...

Entertaining theory. What you have fits well together. Though, there's another issue, aside from Hydaelyn;

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Originally Posted by Nalien

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There was the birth of Althyk, god of time among the Twelve, and in turn, His younger sister Nymeia(...)And then there was water(...)Much later, with the arrival of man(...)

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Right there; the Twelve pre-date water...(lol) and would the Allag not be considered man also? It seems to me that they would be the 'first men', with dragons being the first sentient race (like our dinosaurs [ask me how they killed themselves with their own atomic weapons]).

So, while the Allag were building primal pokeballs and farming solar energy, the other races were still in diapers. They could've even lived along side the Twelve for a short time; would explain their advanced knowledge and crazy aetheric technology.

No, I've got a hunch that the Ascians, the ones from this world, were once Allagan. They advanced through death via the Echo vs. the technologically driven Xandes/Amon. They're the ones that were teaching the beast tribes how to summon primals. I mean, who would know better than the Allag, right? ...I wonder why Ascians cover their eyes with those masks.

Well, if the Twelve were Allag, modern Twelve mythology has been distorted by around 4,000 years of history. Everything prior to that is pretty much unknown, but if people held a belief that, following the Twelves deeds in life, that they were deities, they'd naturally eventually hype them up to creating the oceans and existing since the beginning, rather than originating around the end of the Third Astra Era.

Or perhaps Nymeia really did bring water to the world. Xandes Calamity was the Umbral Era or Earth after all, following that water could have been scarce. Silvertear Falls could have dried up (the Battle of Silvertear Skies drained it significantly iirc, and that wasn't even a full blown Calamity). Nymeia either brought water back, or was there when water returned naturally. Following that Midgardsormr shows up/wakes up, wants to know what happened, a deal is made and the Twelve and their followers leave Mor Dhona for good (the place has no ruins except Allagan ones, so I'd say no other civilization settled there following that). Fast forward a few thousand years and modern man arrives there, history having been long forgotten and warped into myth.

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Originally Posted by Nalien

Fast forward a few thousand years and modern man arrives there, history having been long forgotten and warped into myth.

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Yeah... It's a solid possibility, indeed interesting. Moose had a similar theory way back when - twelve Allagan heroes turned myth. Maybe I'm just underestimating the writer's. Everything is so conflicting... Do you think they intentionally made these story elements impossible to figure out, or are they just as confused?

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Originally Posted by treuhavik

No, I've got a hunch that the Ascians, the ones from this world, were once Allagan. They advanced through death via the Echo vs. the technologically driven Xandes/Amon. They're the ones that were teaching the beast tribes how to summon primals. I mean, who would know better than the Allag, right? ...I wonder why Ascians cover their eyes with those masks.

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Could they have originally been warriors of light that changed to warriors of dark? (Ascians). As their are implications that their are similarities between warriors of light and Ascians.

Could Miggy be a type of a Warrior of Light also? As he is more than just a dragon. Also Allagans did very nasty things to dragons so why would Miggy allow the Allagans to imprison the primals there? Did Miggy work alongside the Allagans to imprison the primals?

Mayhaps the bad things started after they were sealed, when Xandes started his second reign of being a git. And before there wasnt the hostility between Allagans and Dragons. But one flaw is why would Xandes allow Miggy to continue to stay at the lake which was pretty much on the doorstep of Crystal Tower, being at war with dragons whilst allowing this major threat to persist so close to your main base seems odd at best. Miggy must have known or had some inkling at the very least on what Xandes regime where doing with the dragons. Or was he duty bound to not interfere to risk his charge given to him by Hydaelyn.

But Allagans had the tech and the ability to imprison Bahamut who is vastly larger than Miggy. So why was this tech never turned against Miggy?

My only theory that would fit is that Miggy didnt take up the mantle of watchdragon until after the Allagan empire went pop!

Pretty much gone off on a tangent from my original thoughts. XD

Regarding the 12, could they be, instead of seperate entities, just facets of Hydy?

While we're on the subject of the 12 one Limsan Lominsan tale was that when the world was created the land was dry, so Nymeia created a serpent who then task to bring water into the land. But that serpent didn't and was going to flood the world, so she sealed the serpent up to stop. And that where the motto "till sea swallows all" came from.

Not sure if that was talking about leviathan or midgardsomr

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Originally Posted by myahele

While we're on the subject of the 12 one Limsan Lominsan tale was that when the world was created the land was dry, so Nymeia created a serpent who then task to bring water into the land. But that serpent didn't and was going to flood the world, so she sealed the serpent up to stop. And that where the motto "till sea swallows all" came from.

Not sure if that was talking about leviathan or midgardsomr

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I'd say leviathan, He was also worshiped by pirates as the patron god of the seas. Plus he's all about flooding things and has a distaste of land dwellers, I heard somewhere that the primals used to exist along side the twelve before the spoken races came to eorzea.

The serpent should indeed be Leviathan - the tale is coherent with the Earth-based myths it was derived from, as well. See this article on Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos_%...%29#Chaoskampf

As for Midgarsormr, I think the Covenant does most likely predate the Allagan Empire, including his role as the guardian of Silvertear Lake; while he might have butted heads with the Empire, especially if Bahamut was one of his children, it was ultimately the recent rumble with the Agrius that led to the events we've been experiencing throughout the game.

Also, I'd like to point out that the Allagans were a people, not a race in the strict sense (not in the same guise we refer to Elezen, Hyur and whatnot). The "our blood grew thin" line does explain that very well: the survivors merged and mingled with the people of the land, as far as Sharlayan - see what happened with G'raha Tia.

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Originally Posted by VargasVermillion

I'd say leviathan, He was also worshiped by pirates as the patron god of the seas. Plus he's all about flooding things and has a distaste of land dwellers, I heard somewhere that the primals used to exist along side the twelve before the spoken races came to eorzea.

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I wonder how many primals are actually gods from the first era and not deified ancestors, Ramuh said that he lived before mankind appeared, so maybe he was one of those gods or First beings, while Bahamut seems to be a son of Midgardsommr and therefor wasn't a god at first.
That could explain why some gods looks close to their people : Shiva, Mog ( well he seemed to exist in the first Era too ) , Bahamut, Odin, Garuda ? ( she might look like what ixals use to be when they could fly )
While others a lot less (Ifrit, Titan, Leviathan, Ramuh )

Again, while we're on the topic of the Twelve, I have another theory. Of course, like most of my theories, it contradicts the others, but bear with me.

According to comparative mythology, ALL mythos (Gilgamesh, Jesus, Hercules, etc.) were stories created to record the movement of celestial spheres. The ancients made the known planets into Gods, Kings or Heroes (this should be obvious while looking at Roman mythology) and told the stories of their adventures (through the sky), feeling that it would be easier for themselves to remember and, being that they were entertaining, easier for the next generation to pick up and retain. They did this so their children would be able to navigate by sea, plant/harvest and everything else necessary to continue their 'modern' lifestyle.

In most religions/mythos, there is a heaven and a hell, and each is usually divided into seven sections or beings. In Mesopotamian mythology for instance, there were seven "Gods who decree" for the seven known planets, the moon, Mars, Mercury, Jupiter, Venus, Saturn, and the sun (arranging them according to the days of the week). It was also assumed that there were seven nether spheres descending under the earth: the 'seven hells'; whose seven gates were guarded by the seven Anunnaki or Maskim.

Now, we don't know what Eorzeans know of their cosmos, but I get the feeling crystals are of more importance to them, as they're needed for pretty much everything. If we look at crystals in FFXIV we have six elements; Earth, Ice, Water, Wind, Lightning and Fire. So, that's the first six of Eorzea's celestial mythos, but they must have names and opposites to complete the parallel. Well, a quick glance at Twelve will show you there are two "Gods" for per element; Six Astral (Light), Six Umbral (Dark). If we add Hydaelyn as our "Ultimate God" of light and Zodiark as our "Ultimate God" of dark, then we're sitting pretty damn close to nearly every religion/mythos ever.

Basically, if any parallel exists between The Twelve and an earth-based mythology, we can be 99.9% sure that these "Gods" never really existed as people, but were, in fact, ever-important elements personified (until their likeness is brought to life via aether and worship). I think we need to take another look at any stories of the Twelve we have, and perhaps translate them to natural events taking place on Hydaelyn.

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As for the primals and summoning, I think the same deal applies. The beast tribes are only attributed to one element, therefore that element is their ultimate deity, any manifestation of it is going to reflect them and their element. I think prior to dealing with the beastmen's primals, the wandering races wouldn't have been able to summon, say, Ifrit. Our depiction of a 'God of Fire' would've been Azeyma or Nald'Thal. However, now that Eorzeans know what Ifrit looks/acts like, we could say, "Hey, let's summon Ifrit!" and it would work.

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Originally Posted by lololink

I wonder how many primals are actually gods from the first era and not deified ancestors, Ramuh said that he lived before mankind appeared, so maybe he was one of those gods or First beings, while Bahamut seems to be a son of Midgardsommr and therefor wasn't a god at first.

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Ramuh (and all other primals/twelve), remember the time before man, the time of balance, because lightning was there, wind was there, fire was there. They are the elements.

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Originally Posted by treuhavik

Basically, if any parallel exists between The Twelve and an earth-based mythology, we can be 99.9% sure that these "Gods" never really existed as people, but were, in fact, ever-important elements personified (until their likeness is brought to life via aether and worship).

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But you are forgetting one very important thing, this is a Fantasy game, so it's a lot more likely that these gods really existed, in fantasy universes gods usually exist and aren't a way for people to explain things they cannot understand. Also according to the ascians Zodiark existed ( and possibly Hydaelyn ) before the world was what it is now, so at least these two are really real god for real.

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Originally Posted by lololink

But you are forgetting one very important thing, this is a Fantasy game, so it's a lot more likely that these gods really existed

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They did exist. However, not as people like Eorzean myth makes them seem.

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Originally Posted by lololink

in fantasy universes gods usually exist and aren't a way for people to explain things they cannot understand.

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It's not about explaining away what they can't comprehend, it's an incredibly wise way of telling a story of how the world we know came to be; a record of world history.

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Originally Posted by lololink

Also according to the ascians Zodiark existed ( and possibly Hydaelyn ) before the world was what it is now, so at least these two are really real god for real.

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Light and Darkness always exist, in everything, since before time began, and their struggle against one another is just as eternal.


It seems in FFXIV, when an element manifests, it has recollection. This means that all aether has a collective memory, shared once it's returned to the stream.

Unless the twelve were "created" from mortals in a way similar to how Phoenix was "created".....

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Originally Posted by Sapphic

Unless the twelve were "created" from mortals in a way similar to how Phoenix was "created".....

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It's possible, but I don't see it as probable since men supposedly didn't exist at the time. I'm betting that the depictions of the Twelve is based on stories of them.

Well lets get one thing clear for a second. The age of man has consisted of 6 astral eras and 7 Umbral Eras. (No I'm not convinced that the 7 astral era has begun just because we pwned The Ultima Weapon and killed Bahamut, Hydaelyn is still dieing after all) But the cycle of Ages actually starts with The 1st Umbral Era, The Calamity of Wind, brought an end to The Divine Era resulting in The Twelve leaving the world for the Races of man. Thus the Age of man begins and The Age of Gods end. (Think Assasin's Creed Precursor Lore)


So that seems to say that The Twelve were here along side the Races of Man (Miqo'te, Hyure, Elzen, ect, ect) and possibly even along side the beast tribes. But what does the legend of the Divine Era mean by "Left" this world? Could it mean they Transcended the Material Plane of Hydaelyn into the Aetheric Realm? I think it does. Thus why Primals, The Twelve, and many other beings (The powerful yet mortal Elementals excluded) have so much similarity. If we parallel The Aetheric Realm to The Lifestream and Farplain in that it's some sort of after life then it's possible that the Garlen interpretation of "Eikon", That being a God Like Creature summoned through the worship of a Deity or Ancestor, could in fact be true and ultimately solve the "What is a Primal" question.

Lets sat that Hydaelyn and Zodiark were the traditional "Creation Pair" for the world and The Twelve were created along side the "Primeval Element Spirits" (A theoretical origin for the word Primal) to guide and protect the mortal races (The twelve for the Races of Man, and The Primal Spirits the protectors of the Elementals and Beast Tribes) then The Races of Man start to war with one another thus bringing about The Calamity of Wind and the 1st Umbral Era. (Source Final Fantasy Wikia) This leads The Twelve to leave this world possibly going to the Aetheric Realm. How ever the primal spirits are still here but do not naturally possess a physical form.
Now enter the Primals (We'll use ifrit for this example). At one time The Amal'ja and Ul'dahans lived peacefully side by side and even allied against the Sil'dihns in the Ul'had-Sil'dih war, and now all of a sudden within the period of the Sixth astal era some one in Ul'dah starts a War (Lets say unprovoked) with the Amal'ja. The Amal'ja not knowing wtf just happened cry out to their Primal Spirit for guidance in the presence of a giant vein of fire crystals and all of a sudden Ifrits shows up in the flesh and is like "My children why do you cry out to me?" and the Amal'ja go "Oh great Lord of the Inferno, we are humbled you answer our plea, we beg of you protect us from the evil Ul'dahans who have betrayed our trust and seek to destroy us. T_T" then a large army from Ul'dah kicks in the gate at the Zahar'ak Holy land and is like "Surrender now and we'll kill you quickly" then Ifrit's like "Ah hell nah!!!!!!" And starts Hellfire blasting the Ul'dahan Army and tempering the any survivors that are left. Now all of a sudden the Amal'ja have an answer. U'ldah attacks, we pray to Ifrit in front of a large pile of fire crystals, then Ifrit shows up and torches them. Next thing you know the other Beast Tribes hear about it and do the same to their enemies.

Mean while The Twelve can't be so liberal in their aid because they left The Races of Man to fend for them selves thus Hydaelyn has to make new champions each time she's in danger (Lets say The Ascians by the same method are dead and or dieing individuals who were offered a second chance by Zodiark by becoming his Champions to oppose Hydaelyns' Warriors of Light) Well Hydaelyn gets weaker each time because, unlike the already diseased and incorporeal Ascians, each Warrior of Light is a seperate living being that she has to give a piece of her power to gradually weakening her to the brink of death over time.

The Ascians decide to speed this up by telling the other beast tribes what the Amal'ja discovered by accident and take credit for showing the Amal'ja too and all of a sudden beings from the Aetherial Realm of ages past are popping up all over the place. Mog King, Saint Shiva, and Endiku to name but a few, along side the Elder Primals Bahamut, who was called in ages past, and Odin the swordsman so vengeful to the Allage Empire that he opposed (Who knows maybe he was a good guy at first) that his essence converts his sword into a beacon for his will that lets him summon himself through the new weilder of The Zantetsuken.

Many years later now the Ascians have Hydaelyn on the brink of death and are about to complete their end of the deal for Zodiark and are so close to their reward they can practically taste it.

I know it was one of the Longest Darksteel foil hat theories ever, but this is the full compilation of my theory on "WTF is going on in Eorzea".

They fled into space and built stargates in another galaxy! HA!